Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

[Buddy D. Mouse]

I was trying to address non-canonical works

I know I have read an apocalypse of Peter, don't remember much about it

III Corinthians kinda the same

Enoch, I used to have in both Laurence and Charles translations 

1 Clement I recently read - it seems to think of THE PHOENIX as a reality, the mythological bird that rose from its own ashes seemed to be considered just as real as biblical stuff

Much non-Cano apocalyptic literature I have read, a couple of them had 400 year periods rather than 1000 year periods - enough to make me ? If a 1000 year millennium should be taken literally, I really see that as too close to call

Proto-Evangellium of James is weird, it has Magi at the manger, rather than in a house as Bible has them

 

[Fidei Defensor]

3 minutes ago, Episcopius said:

I was trying to address non-canonical works

I know I have read an apocalypse of Peter, don't remember much about it

III Corinthians kinda the same

Enoch, I used to have in both Laurence and Charles translations 

1 Clement I recently read - it seems to think of THE PHOENIX as a reality, the mythological bird that rose from its own ashes seemed to be considered just as real as biblical stuff

Much non-Cano apocalyptic literature I have read, a couple of them had 400 year periods rather than 1000 year periods - enough to make me ? If a 1000 year millennium should be taken literally, I really see that as too close to call

Proto-Evangellium of James is weird, it has Magi at the manger, rather than in a house as Bible has them

 

The Book of Enoch is Gnostic dribble in my opinion. He goes on and on about seven angels, which gnostics worship seven angels. 

I haven’t heard of Proto-Evangeliun of James. 

Clement and most of the Patristic Fathers have major errors in their writings. There is no way to verify they are disciples of the Disciples. Especially because none of them are the actual disciples of Disciples mentioned in Scripture like Timothy, Titus, Philip, John Mark, and etc. You’d think John woukd addess Polycarp in 1-3 John or The Revelation, but nope. 

 

[Mike Mclees]

7 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

The clarity of what ecumenism I’ve been supporting is in Poat 1, page 1. I refer you there. I also suggest the last three to five pages of the discussions here. 

Ecumenism is not The One World Religion, at least not the  kind I am endorsing. While it is true there is interfaith ecumenism, which can make people assume all ecumenism is cross-religion or pan-religious, but the real ecumenism is only between the members of Christ’s body in different denominations. It is the desire of Christ forcHis body to be united (John 17:20-23). 

Im not trying to be smart. You have this vision of being ecumenical is likened to what you saw in Israel. This somehow makes you think we should packup and make a pilgrimage to Israel so we can experience what you did.  We are to be one with Christ but i don't think i need your experience to have that oneness. We are already one in the spirit.

[Fidei Defensor]

8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Im not trying to be smart. You have this vision of being ecumenical is likened to what you saw in Israel. This somehow makes you think we should packup and make a pilgrimage to Israel so we can experience what you did.  We are to be one with Christ but i don't think i need your experience to have that oneness. We are already one in the spirit.

I am proposing making what I saw in Israel happen everywhere. I have seen ecumenism work on the flesh.

You said:

“This somehow makes you think we should pack up and make pilgrimage to Israel so we can experiance what you did.” 

Firstly you cannot tell me what I think, feel, or meant by giving Israel as an example of successful ecumenism. As Certified Christian Counselor I wish to inform you “telling people what they think, feel, and meant” is a violation of a person’s sanctity and personhood. No person knows what another person is thinking, feeling, and meaning. ▪️Interpreting is fine, saying “I am getting from what you are saying, or do you mean to say? Is your view? What you said comes across to me.” This then allows the person to confirm  your interpretation  or clarify what they have said. 

I gave the example of my experisnce in Israel with the purpose of a) showing why I am pro-ecumenism, and b) that I have seen it work and have hope Christ can reunify His church. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

A good reminder from Christ: 

“38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us."
39 But Jesus said, "Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me.
40 For the one who is not against us is for us.
41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.” (Mark 9:38-41)

[David1701]

On 7/12/2020 at 7:56 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

I am proposing making what I saw in Israel happen everywhere. I have seen ecumenism work on the flesh.

You said:

“This somehow makes you think we should pack up and make pilgrimage to Israel so we can experiance what you did.” 

Firstly you cannot tell me what I think, feel, or meant by giving Israel as an example of successful ecumenism. As Certified Christian Counselor I wish to inform you “telling people what they think, feel, and meant” is a violation of a person’s sanctity and personhood. No person knows what another person is thinking, feeling, and meaning. ▪️Interpreting is fine, saying “I am getting from what you are saying, or do you mean to say? Is your view? What you said comes across to me.” This then allows the person to confirm  your interpretation  or clarify what they have said. 

I gave the example of my experisnce in Israel with the purpose of a) showing why I am pro-ecumenism, and b) that I have seen it work and have hope Christ can reunify His church. 

Since ecumenism is between denominations, and since denominations (and many of their disparate doctrines) are unbiblical, external unity will only really be achieved, when born again Christians come out of denominations and meet together as the body of Christ, in each town.

[Fidei Defensor]

Very interesting case for ecumenism while staying as seperate denominations:

” It is well known that Pentecost reverses Babel. The people who built the tower of Babel sought to make a name, and a unity, for themselves. At Pentecost, God builds his temple, uniting people in Christ. Unity – interpretive agreement and mutual understanding – is, it would appear, something that only God can accomplish. And accomplish it he does, but not in the way we might have expected. Although onlookers thought that the believers who received the Spirit at Pentecost were babbling (Acts 2:13), in fact they were speaking intelligibly in several languages (Acts 2:8-11). Note well: they were all saying the same thing (testifying about Jesus) in different languages. It takes a thousand tongues to say and sing our great Redeemer’s praise.

Protestant evangelicalism evidences a Pentecostal plurality: the various Protestant streams testify to Jesus in their own vocabularies, and it takes many languages (i.e. interpretive traditions) to minister the meaning of God’s Word and the fullness of Christ. As the body is made up of many members, so many interpretations may be needed to do justice to the body of the biblical text. Why else are there four Gospels, but that the one story of Jesus was too rich to be told from one perspective only? Could it be that the various Protestant traditions function similarly as witnesses who testify to the same Jesus from different situations and perspectives?” (Kevin J. Vanhoozer, Biblical Authority After Babel: Retrieving the Solas in the Spirit of Mere Protestant Christianity
Tags: biblical-interpretation, christianity, church-unity, ecumenism, pentecost, reformation, goodreads)

Edited July 25, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

I have often found that we Protestants debate Scripture, while our Catholic cousins actually do charity. If we could but blend the two, being zealous for Sound Doctrine and Serve One another as if serving Christ.  

Edited March 4, 2021 by Fidei Defensor

[leah777]

17 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I have often found that we Protestants debate Scripture, while our Catholic cousins actually do charity. If we could but blend the two, being zealous for Sound Doctrine and Serve One another as if serving Christ.  

Perhaps in your area, but in my county Protestants and Catholics do charity. A lot of charity.

[Fidei Defensor]

16 minutes ago, leah777 said:

Perhaps in your area, but in my county Protestants and Catholics do charity. A lot of charity.

Is is charity as in giving alms/ money? Or is it the more encompassing charity?: 

Charitas or charity means love in action, love that is felt and seen by others; visiting friend, feeding them, gift giving, praying for them, and more.

“31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'
40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?'
45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:31-46)

“Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” (James 2:15-18)

Pardon the huge font, ot happens when I paste. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Fidei Defensor