Revelation, Sequenced by the Actual Events

[wingnut-]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

This just proves to me you missed the reasoning gene somewhere down the line. 

 

This kind of treatment of another Christian comes from the flesh, and not from the Spirit.  

[wingnut-]

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

This is just weird. Why would anyone not understand why they are Rejoicing?

 

I do understand why they are rejoicing, that isn't the point.  The point is you claim they will be hiding, and they are not.

 

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I'll copy and paste the same answer which destroys your reply.

 

Read this very carefully.

 

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

Do you see that?  At His coming it will be as it was in the days of Noah.  When is His coming, at the beginning or the end?

 

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Revelation 17 doesn't even exist in real time.

 

I don't even know what this means.  The beast and the woman don't exist?  

[WholeyGod'schild]

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If they do not Flee to the Wilderness they will not be protected, the Jewish peoples who do will be protected. That is just a known fact, see Rev. 12, the Woman is Israel. The whole chapter is about Israel being protected by God for 1260 Days, I suggest you research it a little deeper. 

I was speaking of the country Israel, we both agree then that people that run to the hills will not suffer in the land. But as for them being held from the wrath of God, we have to disagree. God has set forth those that have rejected his son Jesus the Messiah, will suffer his wrath in the last days. Romans 1:18-24

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them up in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen

 There will be the 144,000 that are gathered. that held themselves Holy unto God.

If you believe that just because they are decedents of Abraham, they will be spared God's wrath, you are in serious error.

John 3:35-36

35The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in His hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

as you see anyone (Jew, Gentile, Free, Slave) who Reject the only Son of God, our savoir and God Jesus Christ, they are already condemned. Only way to recover is to be one of the 144,000 that has kept themselves pure unto God, find Jesus as your lord and savoir and survive till the end in the hills, or Die for your beliefs. Now is the time, not during the tribulation to except Jesus as your lord and savior. Being cousin of Jesus through flesh gets you nowhere, only being covered in the blood and being reborn unto his gift of life can you be saved. John 3:16 says it all.

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

 

18 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Israel/Lost Sheep of Israel was Jesus' ministry. The WHEAT can only be Israel, the Church is in heaven, the Remnant/Beheaded are murdered/Martyrs, thus the WHEAT is Israel and the TARES are the Wicked.

ahh no.

Luke 19:9

9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Galatians 3:28

²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Jesus came to save the lost not the "Jews."

He died for our sins so we Jew and Gentile are lost sheep, that are grateful to our King, Savoir, Sheppard, God Jesus the Messiah. We are all raised up into life into him and his kingdom, for we are now known as the Children, Temple, and Body of Christ. For the Gentiles are now graphed into the vine, the root of David, the one true God through his gift and sacrifice.

Romans 11:13-24

¹³ Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry ¹⁴ in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. ¹⁵ For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? ¹⁶ If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

¹⁷ But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root^[b] of the olive tree, ¹⁸ do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. ¹⁹ Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” ²⁰ That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. ²¹ For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. ²² Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. ²³ And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. ²⁴ For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

 

in case you are wondering, I am a Messianic Jew.

 

[Keras]

55 minutes ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

in case you are wondering, I am a Messianic Jew.

Wow, I'm very impressed!

We know, of course, why people want to maintain the national Jews as a people of God, still to be redeemed. This is so they, the Church, can skive off to heaven and strum harps while the earth gets tribulated.  This very serious error leaves people unprepared for what actually will happen.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

Wow, I'm very impressed!

We know, of course, why people want to maintain the national Jews as a people of God, still to be redeemed. This is so they, the Church, can skive off to heaven and strum harps while the earth gets tribulated.  This very serious error leaves people unprepared for what actually will happen.

No one regardless of their view on the rapture, could ever be prepared for what is going to happen during the tribulation.   There is no way to prepare for it, as it is going to be a universal destruction like nothing anyone has ever seen.  The Holocaust will be a walk in the park by comparison. 

[Keras]

11 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No one regardless of their view on the rapture, could ever be prepared for what is going to happen during the tribulation.   There is no way to prepare for it, as it is going to be a universal destruction like nothing anyone has ever seen.  The Holocaust will be a walk in the park by comparison.

Actually, if you read and understand Revelation 12:6-17, you would know that those who keep their faith in God, all the righteous Christians,  will be taken to a place of safety during the GT.

The Holocaust was over a several year period, the judgement that the Lord will instigate will be practically instantaneous. Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:5b-6, Isaiah 47:9, 1 Thess. 5:3

[n2thelight]

54 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No one regardless of their view on the rapture, could ever be prepared for what is going to happen during the tribulation.   There is no way to prepare for it, as it is going to be a universal destruction like nothing anyone has ever seen.  The Holocaust will be a walk in the park by comparison. 

The tribulation is all about deception,not death and destruction

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I do understand why they are rejoicing, that isn't the point.  The point is you claim they will be hiding, and they are not.

 

Then you also understand you have taking the point out of context. Let me break it down for you in slow scrawl so you can understand, though I pretty much assume you to be trolling with this answer. 

There is about 3 years of the Seals and Trumpets, these evil minions that are joined at the hip with the Beast, and have taken the Mark of the Beast have been suffering for 3 years or maybe 3 years and 4 or 5 months. Then all of the sudden, these two prophets of God how have been praying down these plagues from the City of Jerusalem, whilst being protected by the very God they all hate, finally are killed by Apollyon, and the world rejoices, because they think they have won the victory, they think their problems are over, then God raises up the two-witnesses and calls them home to Heaven, and the 3rd Woe starts, or the Seven Vials. 

Rev. 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

I say the Two-witnesses come to Jerusalem about a month or two before the Anti-Christ comes to power, so they die about a month or two before his reign ends. So they pray down plagues on this evil world for 3 years and 4 to 5 months, the world hates them, the world is not marrying and partying as in the days of Noah at this time, they are hiding from God just like the scriptures say. 

Rev. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, HID THEMSELVES (OH YEAH) in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and HIDE US (OH YEAH) from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the WRATH of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand ?

{ They are HIDING from the Wrath of God, just as the Scriptures say, just like I pointed out, just like you more than likely are aware of. So we have 3 years and 4 or 5 months of men hiding from the face of God, they associate the Two-witnesses with these plagues and judgments. When these Two Prophets die, they Rejoice for 3 1/2 days because they think they have defeated God and his Prophets, but of course they are sadly mistaken. They have not been marrying and partying for over 3 years they have been in hiding, just as the scriptures say. Then they rejoice in a false hope, they soon find out they are mistaken, and the Seven Vials of Gods Wrath is the worse of all the Judgments, so they got a 3 1/2 day reprieve, and now they are back in hiding again, as soon as the Vials are poured out by the First Angel. During the First Woe with the Demon horde, I think they will be in Hiding, during the Second Woe with the Angelic Army destroying a third of mankind, I think they will be in Hiding !! The Fact is you try to take a singular event, and reverse what the meaning of what the scriptures actually are pointing to, just to make a point, which is NO POINT, and that points to pride. Let the scriptures say what they say and mean what they Mean, }

Now let us delve down even deeper. The Scriptures in Matthew 24:34-42, I say, are pointing to the Rapture, and the incident you cited, points to the Two-Witnesses being killed and man-kind rejoicing, thus naturally you think the Second Coming is the Rapture (even though its not), thus my original point would still kick in, before this FINAL RAPTURE, there would still be SEVEN VIALS of Gods Wrath, and even JUST COUNTING the Seven Vial of Gods Wrath, after the Two-Witnesses are killed off, you still would have NO ONE marrying and partying at this time. Its just a FACT....It can not be overcome, Jesus is speaking about the Rapture, even though he held back the Understanding, just like he held back understanding from Daniel.

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

Read this very carefully.

 

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

Do you see that?  At His coming it will be as it was in the days of Noah.  When is His coming, at the beginning or the end?

Now you need to do the same, pay close attention.....1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall DESCEND from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

He descends from Heaven, to our atmosphere, and calls us to COME MEET HIM IN THE AIR !! That is just a fact. We are Raptured. The point remains, no one that is thinking logically will assume that people will be partying, marrying and having a wonderful time, during the SEVEN VIALS of Gods Wrath. It destroys the post trib rapture theory. I UNDERSTAND.....

4 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I don't even know what this means.  The beast and the woman don't exist?  

I understand you do not understand it...........

7 hours ago, wingnut- said:

This kind of treatment of another Christian comes from the flesh, and not from the Spirit.  

No, some people are not logical thinkers, some are. Some people are given to understand prophecy and some aren't, The biggest problem that I see with the Church today is we have too many people wanting to be the arm and the leg or the eye and hand, and they miss their true callings. Jesus limited the scope of his Ministry on purpose, to the House of Israel only or to the Lost Sheep of Israel, only. Find what you are called to do, and do it well. Why do we have 1000 views on Babylon? Because w have people not called to prophecy weighing in on what it actually means. That is the point, God doesn't give us all the same gifts. 

There was a guy on another board who shall remain nameless, he is fruity on prophecy, he has his own channel, and no one visits, so he stated he was quitting the channel, and he gave the reason he wanted to do what he was doing, he gave his testimony and stated that that he had really dedicated hos life to Christ about a year ago, after playing around in Church for Years, his TESTIMONY was SO POWERFUL.....It hit me, this was his calling, you can d NOTHING without the Anointing of God, if you do it will com to nothing. I told him, look here brother, you have been here a year, and you are arguing Prophecy with Christians who have been Christians 25-40 years, all the While as soon as I hard your testimony, it move me deeply, its OBVIOUS what your calling is, after all, bringing in people to Christ is the most important thing we can do, and the Anointing is on you Testimony, but its not on your Channel where you are telling everyone (after a year of being a true Christian) about how Prophecy works, and what it means. He was a FOOT....trying to be a HAND...It doesn't work like that. 

That was my point.....people don't get the same gifts, you should know that right? 

Concerning Spiritual Gifts

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Unity and Diversity in the Body

12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

 

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, Keras said:

I don't agree with any of the so called pre-trib rapture scriptures. None of them say that God will take His people to heaven.  The whole rapture theory is made up from assumptions and inferences, never a clear scripture. It is simply a false teaching, inspired by the father of lies; Satan. 

The Bible does tell what God has planned for His people; for them to be His witnesses and the Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8

You have that right of course, but you are in the vast minority of Christendom. It has always intrigued me to be honest, many of the ones who cite these verses only confuse themselves, not others. 75-85 percent of Christendom understand the Rapture and its timing, but according to post trib people everybody but them is confused. The Old Testament is about Israel, one day you will learn its not a good reference point when seeking answers about the Church per se, yes their are veiled messages about the Church like in Leviticus 23, but ONLY in Reference to Israel. 

9 hours ago, Keras said:

The dead souls kept under the Altar in heaven are the souls of the martyrs. Revelation 6:9-11  We see there, that they are allowed to cry out and it is obviously them in Revelation 19:1-3 . It is only your faulty belief that thinks they are all the Church.

The Dead Souls are Raptured....those under the Alter in Seal number 5 are the Martyrs of the Tribulation. They probably are in Heaven, I never thought about that, that's what the Scriptures say, but we see that the Dead Souls of the past 2000 years are STILL IN THE GRAVE.....1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall DESCEND from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

I was speaking of the country Israel, we both agree then that people that run to the hills will not suffer in the land. But as for them being held from the wrath of God, we have to disagree. God has set forth those that have rejected his son Jesus the Messiah, will suffer his wrath in the last days. Romans 1:18-24

 

There is where I see you as missing the facts of the case, which many do, I was only ale to understand this in the last year. Israel REPENTS before the Abomination of Desolation. Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah will be sent to turn Israel back to God before the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord. Zechariah 14 is Jesus return on Mt Zion. But we see Israel repents in Zechariah 12:10 and are washed in the Blood in Zechariah 13:1.

What are the Six Goals of Daniels 70th Week Prophecy? Well one says Israel must ATONE before the 70th Week is over. Why would God protect Israel id she had not Accepted Jesus as her Messiah? In Matthew 24 why does Jesus tell Israel not to go unto the Desert or the Secret Chamber (Where the false prophet and false christ are), but tells the where he will be coming from....The Eastern Skies, just after the Tribulation period....Because they are his by that time, and are LOOKING FOR HIM TO SAVE THEM. Rev. 12 says they are protected in the Wilderness for 1260 Days. Then when Jesus returns he will gather them unto his barn, Israel is the WHEAT, the TARES are Satan's evil minions and the Church of course is in Heaven.

Isaiah and Paul quoted him, says ALL ISRAEL will be saved, not every Jew, but Israel as a nation turns back to God, thus All Israel is SAVED.....The Nation turns to God as a whole. Many Jews will serve Satan/Beast, but Israel turns back to God. So all the Scriptures about Wickedness are pointless if Israel has repented right? Just like when we Repent, God forgives us and wipes away our Sins. 

4 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

as you see anyone (Jew, Gentile, Free, Slave) who Reject the only Son of God, our savoir and God Jesus Christ, they are already condemned. Only way to recover is to be one of the 144,000 that has kept themselves pure unto God, find Jesus as your lord and savoir and survive till the end in the hills, or Die for your beliefs. Now is the time, not during the tribulation to except Jesus as your lord and savior. Being cousin of Jesus through flesh gets you nowhere, only being covered in the blood and being reborn unto his gift of life can you be saved. John 3:16 says it all.

The 144,000 and those protected in the Wilderness are different. The 144,000 is vague to be honest. They could be 144,000 who were Saints of Old, (I don't know to be honest) they could just be all the Saints, 12 x 12 means FULLNESS X FULLNESS. But we do know they do not represent Israel being protected by God in the Wilderness.