Millennial Day Theory

[Last Daze]

6 hours ago, ghtan said:

The NT writers appeared to think that Jesus could return at any time, even during their generation. They obviously were not aware of, or did not subscribe to, the millennial day theory otherwise they would have known that Jesus was not coming back for another two thousand years and thus would not have phrased some of the things they said the way they did.

That's a good point.  I'm inclined to think that they weren't aware of it because it is an obscure concept.  Take for instance Hosea 6:2

He will revive us after two days;
He will raise us up on the third day,
That we may live before Him.

What could they have possibly thought that this meant?  We have the vantage point of nearly 2000 years into the new covenant and the signs of the times pointing to the return of Christ.

[ghtan]

12 hours ago, Last Daze said:

That's a good point.  I'm inclined to think that they weren't aware of it because it is an obscure concept.  Take for instance Hosea 6:2

He will revive us after two days;
He will raise us up on the third day,
That we may live before Him.

What could they have possibly thought that this meant?  We have the vantage point of nearly 2000 years into the new covenant and the signs of the times pointing to the return of Christ.

I think Hosea 6:2 simply means God would not be angry with us forever, symbolised by a short two and three days. On what scripture do we base the millennial day view? On 2 Peter 3:8? Peter's point (3:9) is just that God is eternal and so he is not hurried into bringing everything to an end. If we press the meaning too far, might we run the risk of adding to scripture as warned by Rev 22:18?     

[Last Daze]

11 hours ago, ghtan said:

I think Hosea 6:2 simply means God would not be angry with us forever, symbolised by a short two and three days. On what scripture do we base the millennial day view? On 2 Peter 3:8? Peter's point (3:9) is just that God is eternal and so he is not hurried into bringing everything to an end. If we press the meaning too far, might we run the risk of adding to scripture as warned by Rev 22:18?     

Its more of a curiosity to me than anything, much like September 23 of this year.  I certainly wouldn't teach it as truth.

I started this topic to see if there was anything out there concerning this notion that I might have missed.  My thoughts on it at this point are:

• Either the days are exactly 1000 years or they are approximate, if they mean anything at all.
• If they are exactly 1000 years then Jesus would have known exactly when He was returning, so I rule out the notion of exactly 1000 years.
• If the days were approximately 1000 years then it only gives us a general idea of His return.  Jesus told us in Matthew 24 the signs to look for the nearness of His return and we should go with what He has directly stated.

So while there might be something there, I consider it just an interesting notion, nothing more.

[Keras]

The formula of 1 day in heaven equaling 1000 earth years, as given to us by two witnesses, Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8, is just that.  For God in heaven, outside of our time: the passing of one day, takes 1000 years for us on earth.  Proved by how there has been exact 1000 year periods in our history. It also works for Revelation 8:1, the Seventh Seal, where about a half hour in heaven equals about 20 years earth time, which is about right for all that must happen from now until Jesus Returns.

Here is the proof:

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:

 

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BCE       [added back from 586 BC}

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 6:7 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10

Our year 2314.5 BCE

 Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18  Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE   He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4                         Total years so far = 2000

 

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8

Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BCE. [Many ancient records say Comet Typhon passed close the earth at that time. It was the cause of many of the disasters in Egypt.]

1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1-3 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:1-2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:32 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:1-2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1-2 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 22:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year 586 BCE.

Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5

586 BCE + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5 CE, the date of Jesus’ baptism. Luke 3:1  Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.  

                          3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years.

 

July 2017.5 CE - 29.5 CE = 1,988 years since the commencement of Jesus’ Ministry.

1,988 + 4000 = 5988 years, is where we are now. 5988 + 12 = 6000 years

2017.5 CE + 12 = 2029.5 CE  Exactly 2000 years to the end of the present Church age.  4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam, next comes the 1000 year reign of Jesus.

7000 years is God’s decreed time for mankind.

Those who have been found worthy will go into eternity with God. Revelation 22:1-5 

 

                                                                                                            47 Bible verses

[OldCoot]

On 7/25/2017 at 8:08 AM, Last Daze said:

That's a good point.  I'm inclined to think that they weren't aware of it because it is an obscure concept.  Take for instance Hosea 6:2

He will revive us after two days;
He will raise us up on the third day,
That we may live before Him.

What could they have possibly thought that this meant?  We have the vantage point of nearly 2000 years into the new covenant and the signs of the times pointing to the return of Christ.

I am convinced that pertains to national Israel.  Start with Hosea 5:14 first then go thru to 6:2.   The Lord is returning to his place (that would imply that He left it) because of their offense (Israel's national rejection of the Messiah) and would not return until they acknowledge that offense and cry out to Him.  It would be a major stretch to think this applies to the world in general or believers.  Yeshua confirmed Hosea 5:15 with his statement in Matthew 23:38-39 against the Jewish leadership.  Many Hebrews accepted Yeshua as the Messiah, but the leadership did not. 

It is possible to see this in a number of ways.  A 2000 year time frame (2 days) and then Israel would be restored on the 3rd day (1000 year reign of Messiah).  Or it could be last two years of the Tribulation period, or time of Jacob's Trouble, and then they would be rescued out of it.  Probably other contentions as well.  I tend to favor the former, and I am confident that we will all find out one day.

Edited July 26, 2017 by OldCoot

[ghtan]

8 hours ago, Keras said:

The formula of 1 day in heaven equaling 1000 earth years, as given to us by two witnesses, Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8, is just that.  For God in heaven, outside of our time: the passing of one day, takes 1000 years for us on earth.  Proved by how there has been exact 1000 year periods in our history. It also works for Revelation 8:1, the Seventh Seal, where about a half hour in heaven equals about 20 years earth time, which is about right for all that must happen from now until Jesus Returns.

Here is the proof:

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:

 

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BCE       [added back from 586 BC}

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 6:7 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10

Our year 2314.5 BCE

 Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18  Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE   He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4                         Total years so far = 2000

 

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8

Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BCE. [Many ancient records say Comet Typhon passed close the earth at that time. It was the cause of many of the disasters in Egypt.]

1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1-3 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:1-2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:32 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:1-2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1-2 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 22:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year 586 BCE.

Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5

586 BCE + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5 CE, the date of Jesus’ baptism. Luke 3:1  Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.  

                          3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years.

 

July 2017.5 CE - 29.5 CE = 1,988 years since the commencement of Jesus’ Ministry.

1,988 + 4000 = 5988 years, is where we are now. 5988 + 12 = 6000 years

2017.5 CE + 12 = 2029.5 CE  Exactly 2000 years to the end of the present Church age.  4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam, next comes the 1000 year reign of Jesus.

7000 years is God’s decreed time for mankind.

Those who have been found worthy will go into eternity with God. Revelation 22:1-5 

 

                                                                                                            47 Bible verses

Hi there! Thanks for the calculation. Interesting. However, if you interpret 2 Pet 3:8 literally, how do you explain that the verse goes on to say that a thousand (presumably heavenly) years are like a (presumably earth) day. Doesn't the verse thereby contradict itself? Similarly Ps 90:4 goes on to add "or like a watch in the night"? So, which is it - a thousand earth years equal one heavenly day or one heavenly watch in the night? The 'self-contradictions' in these verses should immediately warn us not to read them literally. 

[ghtan]

15 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Its more of a curiosity to me than anything, much like September 23 of this year.  I certainly wouldn't teach it as truth.

I started this topic to see if there was anything out there concerning this notion that I might have missed.  My thoughts on it at this point are:

• Either the days are exactly 1000 years or they are approximate, if they mean anything at all.
• If they are exactly 1000 years then Jesus would have known exactly when He was returning, so I rule out the notion of exactly 1000 years.
• If the days were approximately 1000 years then it only gives us a general idea of His return.  Jesus told us in Matthew 24 the signs to look for the nearness of His return and we should go with what He has directly stated.

So while there might be something there, I consider it just an interesting notion, nothing more.

You're ok. I've read enough of your posts to know that you are quite careful with your theology (even though we do not agree on many issues). On a general note, if the purpose of exegesis is to uncover what the biblical writer meant by what they wrote, how could they possibly mean what they were not aware of? Btw, forgive my ignorance but what is happening on Sept 23?

[brakelite]

The general consensus among contributors here is that the 1000 years to come (a Sabbath) entails an earthly rule. When I read the scriptures describing the state of the earth, no way could I equate that time with any 'sabbath'. 

Not a building left intact on the planet.

Billions of torn, shredded, mutilated bodies strewn everywhere.

The entire landscape not just altered, but destroyed. 

And then there's the constant darkness...

You fellas may think thats all fine and you are looking forward to all the work, but me, nuh. No way. This life has been hard enough, I'm looking forward to a true rest. When Jesus comes to take His bride home, I'm going with Him. I'll let Him do all the clean up work when He recreates this place.

[Keras]

3 hours ago, ghtan said:

 

Hi there! Thanks for the calculation. Interesting. However, if you interpret 2 Pet 3:8 literally, how do you explain that the verse goes on to say that a thousand (presumably heavenly) years are like a (presumably earth) day. Doesn't the verse thereby contradict itself? Similarly Ps 90:4 goes on to add "or like a watch in the night"? So, which is it - a thousand earth years equal one heavenly day or one heavenly watch in the night? The 'self-contradictions' in these verses should immediately warn us not to read them literally. 

Read in a good translation, there are no contradictions. Just Hebrew parallelisms and reinforcement of the facts. What Peter says is not the reversal of what he has just said, only the same thing reiterated again. Note that he doesn't specify what pertains to heaven and earth in the 2nd part.  And Psalms 90:4,.....a watch in the night, is only an emphasis to the formula. 

If we don't read them literally, what other scriptures do you think we should also say are just figurative?

Is anyone here capable of facing the fact that we are extremely close to very dramatic events?  

[ghtan]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

Read in a good translation, there are no contradictions. Just Hebrew parallelisms and reinforcement of the facts. What Peter says is not the reversal of what he has just said, only the same thing reiterated again. Note that he doesn't specify what pertains to heaven and earth in the 2nd part.  And Psalms 90:4,.....a watch in the night, is only an emphasis to the formula. 

If we don't read them literally, what other scriptures do you think we should also say are just figurative?

Is anyone here capable of facing the fact that we are extremely close to very dramatic events?  

It would support your case if you could show where else in the bible the second half of a Hebrew parallelism is simply the first half worded in reverse order, thus adding no value.

With Ps 90, if “watch in the night” emphasizes “day,” it does so figuratively because they are obviously not literally equal. Now since that comparison is figurative, so too should the comparison between a thousand years and a day in the same sentence.