Inquiring into the "Rapture"

[missmuffet]

6 minutes ago, eileenhat said:

Only 'souls' are thrown in the Lake of fire, ie. not our physical bodies.

'Bodies' then can be used again by God (ie. he can place another soul in one then or even an angel.  I have received insights into both occurring, though only once each) or it just dies and become dust.

We fail to relate to the Book of Revelation because we do not understand this point enough to have any discussions about.

I bring it up and it gets dismissed.

Unless we understand that we do not understand life and all its aspects, including most relevantly our spiritual bodies, ie. souls, we will never fully understand Revelation.  Never going to happen.

For example, Zechariah 5 speaks about two women a soul held in a container/basket to Babylon.  It was a wicked soul, yet contained within a basket and able to be transported.

Only one soul is thus transported.

It is obvious therefore that souls can be moved and if you see this passage, Zech. 5:11, they move it, along with it's container (ie. human host body), to a different place.  

No one ever ask why does god have to move someone's soul?

God can easily get someone to move locations physically.  So why does this one time in the entire history of mankind, must he be responible?

Because this soul is moved through time, not distance.

God can resurrect a soul, into a new host body, into a new time period.

Rev. 20:4 states:

"King James Bible
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Here we see that God is ONLY resurrected the saints souls.  They therefore will need bodies for those souls.  The only question we should then have is who's bodies, new ones or old?

God answered that for me and I have shared it here, mods allowing only a small amount of that intel shared here.

I do what I am allowed therefore.  Doctrine dictates people's lives.  Unfortunately Satan therefore has direct access to changing people's minds, as anything written in a book, or taught by unknown teachers, can be used as tools by those that wish to dominate.

Thankfully, we are to follow Jesus and not written or taught text.  Though few aspire to that level of connectedness with God these days, hampered by the Beast empire and all its changes to history and our written words/history.

 

 

 

You are not biblically correct. At the end of the 1000 year millennium the bodies of the unbelievers will be resurrected with their souls. So body and soul will be thrown into the lake of fire. They will be very conscious of what they are going through and will be tortured and judged for an eternity. That is forever and ever never ending.

[missmuffet]

23 minutes ago, GusWilby said:

You assume that the tribulation and God’s wrath are the same event.  The scripture doesn’t teach pre-trib rapture, but many interpret it that way.  Not everyone on the earth will suffer God’s wrath, He will protect us from it though. He protected Noah and his family from being TAKEN by His wrath and LEFT them behind to continue living after everything else was destroyed.  

Yes, the Bible does teach a pretribulation rapture. The seven year tribulation is God's wrath and judgement on this earth. The only people who will not suffer God's wrath at the seven year tribulation are the 12 tribes of Israel. Everyone else will.

[OneLight]

1 minute ago, eileenhat said:

Only 'souls' are thrown in the Lake of fire, ie. not our physical bodies.

'Bodies' then can be used again by God (ie. he can place another soul in one then or even an angel.  I have received insights into both occurring, though only once each) or it just dies and become dust.

We fail to relate to the Book of Revelation because we do not understand this point enough to have any discussions about.

I bring it up and it gets dismissed.

Unless we understand that we do not understand life and all its aspects, including most relevantly our spiritual bodies, ie. souls, we will never fully understand Revelation.  Never going to happen.

For example, Zechariah 5 speaks about two women a soul held in a container/basket to Babylon.  It was a wicked soul, yet contained within a basket and able to be transported.

Only one soul is thus transported.

It is obvious therefore that souls can be moved and if you see this passage, Zech. 5:11, they move it, along with it's container (ie. human host body), to a different place.  

No one ever ask why does god have to move someone's soul?

God can easily get someone to move locations physically.  So why does this one time in the entire history of mankind, must he be responible?

Because this soul is moved through time, not distance.

God can resurrect a soul, into a new host body, into a new time period.

Rev. 20:4 states:

"King James Bible
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Here we see that God is ONLY resurrected the saints souls.  They therefore will need bodies for those souls.  The only question we should then have is who's bodies, new ones or old?

God answered that for me and I have shared it here, mods allowing only a small amount of that intel shared here.

I do what I am allowed therefore.  Doctrine dictates people's lives.  Unfortunately Satan therefore has direct access to changing people's minds, as anything written in a book, or taught by unknown teachers, can be used as tools by those that wish to dominate.

Thankfully, we are to follow Jesus and not written or taught text.  Though few aspire to that level of connectedness with God these days, hampered by the Beast empire and all its changes to history and our written words/history.

There are a couple of things I cannot accept from your post.

First, God does not have to reuse anything.  He creates anew, so I question if your insights are from God.  There is no place in scripture where we read that God took the soul of another or an angel and placed it within another physical body.

Second, Zechariah 5 speaks of a vision an angel gave a woman, it was not literal.

 

[Guest]

Hi Eileenhat,

Thank you for replying with your insights.

Your understanding of this issue warrants some attention, although I am having some difficulty seeing from where in scripture some of it derived.  I clearly recognize the passage from Rev 20, as it is one I’ve spent more than a decade studying how the rest of Biblical teachings relate to it.

My question was regarding the location of those souls at the moment they are to be judged...

Where are they when judgement is handed down to them?  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

You are not biblically correct. At the end of the 1000 year millennium the bodies of the unbelievers will be resurrected with their souls. So body and soul will be thrown into the lake of fire. They will be very conscious of what they are going through and will be tortured and judged for an eternity. That is forever and ever never ending.

I agree with that... partially.  Every reference to the resurrection of unbelievers includes those who believe.  They are not separated till judgement... on that last day.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Yes, the Bible does teach a pretribulation rapture. The seven year tribulation is God's wrath and judgement on this earth. The only people who will not suffer God's wrath at the seven year tribulation are the 12 tribes of Israel. Everyone else will.

Where is pre-trib taught?  Please just list 3 - 5 verse references without commentary and I will give my honest and sincere response to each one.  If you need more, we can discuss those later, just the strongest proofs you can find.  Thanks in advance.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, OneLight said:

There are a couple of things I cannot accept from your post.

First, God does not have to reuse anything.  He creates anew, so I question if your insights are from God.  There is no place in scripture where we read that God took the soul of another or an angel and placed it within another physical body.

Second, Zechariah 5 speaks of a vision an angel gave a woman, it was not literal.

 

Hey OneLight,

as a sidebar comment, I agree that God does not “reuse” or refurbish anything.  This point is made clear in the mention of a “new heaven and new earth,”. John specifically wrote down the God-breathed word for “NEW,” and NOT the Greek word that means “renewed.”  

Scripture does indeed supersede our ideas or imaginations and should be the bar against our dreams and visions.   For those who do have visions, they must understand that our enemy knows of these and can influence circumstances of even God’s elect to deceive or delude them with false visions.  I’ll admit it’s happened to me, but I know how to discern the two... 

 

[Daniel 11:36]

missmuffet is correct

Today's believers of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time will be immortalized just before the coming tribulation period

Here they are in the heavenly state just before the tribulation begins in Revelation 8 [Revelation 7:9-17]

These will appear upon the earth with the Lord at the end of the tribulation [Revelation 20:4] .... And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them

[Last Daze]

36 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

At the end of the 1000 year millennium the bodies of the unbelievers will be resurrected with their souls.

Does this resurrection also include the righteous who died during the millennium?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

missmuffet is correct

Today's believers of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time will be immortalized just before the coming tribulation period

Here they are in the heavenly state just before the tribulation begins in Revelation 8 [Revelation 7:9-17]

These will appear upon the earth with the Lord at the end of the tribulation [Revelation 20:4] .... And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them

“Out of the tribulation” does not mean “before the tribulation.”  We know believers will be killed during Satan’s tribulation, as the scripture states they will be in the first resurrection that happens AFTER the tribulation (which is followed by God’s wrath against those who controlled the world during the tribulation).