Why do people hate Paul Washer?

[warrior12]

9 hours ago, AscendedMasters333 said:

Paul explains that we have a change of heart, and character. And we rebuke sin greatly, more than before. But I guess most 'Christians', believe that as soon as they believe, they're saved no matter what. Even if they sin later on. 

Romans 7 .  There Paul gives a good description and explanation why a Christian is not exempted from sinning later on.    And yes, as when you truly believe in your heart and confessed with your tongue that Jesus Christ is Lord and have asked him to come in and take up residence in your heart, then you are saved.

Romans 7  King James Version (KJV)

⁵ For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

⁶ But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

²³ But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

²⁴ O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

²⁵ I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[warrior12]

9 hours ago, AscendedMasters333 said:

They do sin. But Paul is referring to those Christians who are thrown into the quick-an-easy saving. Ex: they're asked by the pastor, 'do you believe Jesus is your savior?'. You answer yes, and he says okay you're saved now. But that means essentially nothing.

The pastor or no man can tell the state of that mans heart when he responded to the pastors question.  The man could be as genuine as they get. Too many people get on that  bandwagon and reject that a pastor makes alter calls ect.   You proclaim your confession that you believe and then we are babes in Christ, needing milk to grow, until we are strong or mature enough to eat meat and grow to be more independent.   Even mature believers have trials and temptations to face that can be daunting and trying as i am sure many can attest to here.   

You are not exempted from sin in this body of flesh till this body is no longer anymore.  The Lord knows your heart, it is a spiritual thing and he knows what your deliberations are in doing things.  You cannot fool the maker of the eye, so as we stumble in our walk at times, we are to get up, repent and press on.  Yes, we almost  don't use that word anymore, but we have those graces given to us when we fall short at times.

[warrior12]

39 minutes ago, Jaydog1976 said:

The good works a Christian produces is because of his faith in Christ. Works, regardless of does them, does not save period. Ephesians 2:8-9 (a well-known verse) clearly teaches that it is faith an faith alone that saves. End of story. 

Clear as mud as my boss would shout to us.  Well put Jay.  Short and straight to the point.

Ephesians 2  King James Version (KJV)

⁸ For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

⁹ Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[simplejeff]

Yahweh says the spiritual man (rare, hard to find) appraises all things, and is appraised by no one.

So things that are true for a spiritual man (rare, hard to find) ,

as Yahweh says,  

do not apply to people in general, on forums, on earth, anywhere.

[Neighbor]

13 hours ago, AscendedMasters333 said:

People claim he's a false prophet. 

 

But all I've heard from him is scriptural and God's word.

 

For a new Christian coming into this world, it's tough. Not because Christianity is a tough faith. But because of 'Christians'. Everyone has a different opinion on everything in the Bible. When seeking advice, you get a million different answers. 

Don't personally know of the man you mention, but let me take on your other issues, for a moment. "Christianity is a tough faith", well the core of the faith of Jesus is amazingly simple. Plus the recorded word of the God-man that has brought the mercy of God and His grace upon you  has stated this:  

"Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;  yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.  Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

"My yoke upon you" "I am gentle and lowly in heart" So tough? Only if you try to make it so by following men of words instead of the words of  our Lord. Keep it simple stupid is the wiser man's way of being  a Christian. Do not seek out the word master so much as you seek out the Word. Grand sounding  "preachers" Talkers" are not necessarily stronger in faith than you are right  this moment. They are just practiced and well often wordy to the point of confusion. And then one day they fail in some personal  action their advocates are shocked and flee and their ministry is decimated for they had been doing  what they thought was good, but were not sharing the simpler truths the Bible.

I suggest seeking out good company, reading the Bible and reading it with prayer, much prayer and thinking. Go ahead listen to the good preacher, but do not become a fan, nor a groupie of any.

What you do need is a local body of Christ Jesus with other born again saints in it. Born-again meaning they have been called by God The Holy Spirit to their own personal repentance from their own sins against God, and have been called by God The Holy Spirit to receive Jesus sacrifice for them as their cover and their eternal security. For that  is the sum of it that is Christianity at the very core. All else is manifestation that grows out from that core.

It is Jesus that has created you, It is Jesus that has  brought the word of God the Bible live to us. It is Jesus that has served His Father's will and reconciled the impossible. He has restored us to God, those that are called by God the Holy  Spirit. That is awesome beyond capacity to fully understand. None the less every experience proves it true, once it can be seen via the Holy Spirit enabling each saint to see.

All the other components all the other rules, and suggestions  are born of men's attempts to build upon the foundation of faith so that each saint may give better service in worship  of God. Well most of it is not all that enlightening, except that which is the Bible itself. All the stories well you will develop your own too, all born of experience, they all are just testimony that attempts to flesh out the bones the core of faith. Some are wonderful attempts, others not so much.

But; much like you stated, the faith of Jesus itself  is not so hard, as He is not so hard a task minder either. His yoke is not heavy- it is a yoke. It does mean carrying a load. It does mean doing a purposeful job, but He is not a hard task minder. He is the Good Shepherd. He laid down His life and arose again defeating death- for you.

You don't have to take on the yoke of some man, some group, when you take on the yoke of Christ Jesus, but you should endeavor to meet with Christians on a regular basis, to worship and to share the burdens of life, while asking God for help with them. For there is beneficial power in doing so. It pleases God that we do so, as is evidenced in the knowledge that when two or three gather in Jesus name:

"Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.  For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

And know too that there is danger in relying upon just a short verse, like the above,  without reading studying and praying over the greater content and context.

May the Holy Spirit be hard at work within you. May many angels walk beside you. May you learn to rejoice in Jesus within all things. May you seek to do all that you do to the glory of God. Amen.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Neighbor

[MyLordsServant]

3 hours ago, Jaydog1976 said:

 Are you saying that a person isn't saved if they are not doing good works as a Christian? 

What you are doing is just taking scriptures here and there to try and somehow justify your arguments that faith and works are what saves.

You cannot separate verse 9. The verse teaches that salvation is only through faith. Faith is not the gift, salvation is. Works, regardless of how good they are, are absolutely worthless because works causes man to boast in what they can do. If my salvation was merited on my faith and my works I would not be saved.

Question: What happens is a person does something that is sinful? Can Christians sin? See the problem with you belief is that in order for my faith to save me then my works have to be spot on as well. And unless I am sinless I am going to do both good things and unfortunately because of sin I am going to do bad things(I try not to but I am not sinless, at least not in this life). 

What makes this even more difficult is that you will make a statement, saying you agree, and then make another statement that contradicts what you just agreed with. This is what makes us question your statements. They are not consistent. 

This is what you are doing with your posts unfortunately. I have read through all the other posts and Yowm, Sojourner and others have used God's Word appropriately and have shown the truth of the gospel that scripture teaches. 

1. Faith = Salvation (exclusive of 2)

2. Salvation = Works (not exclusive of 1)

3. No works =  Salvation? (mutually exclusive)

This is my overall point^. Works means your heart has changed and you have a desire to do God's will. If you don't do God's will, then you probably aren't saved. If you are saved, sinning is possible, but you hate the sin and repent immediately. 

 

 

[OneLight]

I am not going to stand in judgment of Paul as I know so little about him I would more then likely be in error and harm others in Christ, no matter which side I stand on, so I will speaks about the works-faith issue being discussed.

Works comes after salvation.  Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

After we are saved, we then continue to mature in Christ so we can do the works we were prepared to do.  1 Corinthians 3:12-15

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So, what is James actually saying?  James 2:14-26

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?  If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”  And he was called the friend of God.  You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I see that the faith that did save us will produce works, if we continue in Christ and mature.  So, what about those who are new in Him or take a longer time to mature?  Assuming we are all on a path to Him, we also need to accept that not all are in the same place in our maturity.  Meaning, we are all different.

I guess one question has to be if a person who has been saved, but dies before his is mature enough to produce good works, are they really saved?  I would say yes because it clearly states “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.”

Then there is the question is someone who has been “saved” for a long time, but refused to do the works in Christ they were called to do, does this person actually have saving faith?  Here is where there seems to be a contradiction in scripture.  “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves” is still true, then what happens if there is no works in their faith “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also”?  I personally believe that they are not walking in the power of Christ and can do no works, as in healing, prophesy, teaching, etc.  So what happens to them?  “If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”  Since there are no works to be tested, there is nothing to burn or stand.  If someone has works and it all burns due to being done for the wrong reason, is he just like the person who has no works to be tested?

The true question at this point is if the person we are seeing with no works after a period of time, were they really saved in the first place?  The difference being that the one whose works were burned, he at least had works to be tested.  But what are we actually doing when we stand in judgment of another?  Are we not pretending we are God and can see into the hearts of other, or that we know all their works or lack of works?  I’d say yes, we are trying to judge as God judges.  The best we should do with these verses are to judge only ourselves.  Are we doing the works we are created to do?  I suggest that we keep it personal and not as a measuring rod for anyone else but ourselves.

[angels4u]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

I am not going to stand in judgment of Paul as I know so little about him I would more then likely be in error and harm others in Christ, no matter which side I stand on, so I will speaks about the works-faith issue being discussed.

Works comes after salvation.  Ephesians 2:8-10

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

After we are saved, we then continue to mature in Christ so we can do the works we were prepared to do.  1 Corinthians 3:12-15

 

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

So, what is James actually saying?  James 2:14-26

 

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?  If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”  And he was called the friend of God.  You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

 

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

I see that the faith that did save us will produce works, if we continue in Christ and mature.  So, what about those who are new in Him or take a longer time to mature?  Assuming we are all on a path to Him, we also need to accept that not all are in the same place in our maturity.  Meaning, we are all different.

 

I guess one question has to be if a person who has been saved, but dies before his is mature enough to produce good works, are they really saved?  I would say yes because it clearly states “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.”

 

Then there is the question is someone who has been “saved” for a long time, but refused to do the works in Christ they were called to do, does this person actually have saving faith?  Here is where there seems to be a contradiction in scripture.  “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves” is still true, then what happens if there is no works in their faith “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also”?  I personally believe that they are not walking in the power of Christ and can do no works, as in healing, prophesy, teaching, etc.  So what happens to them?  “If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”  Since there are no works to be tested, there is nothing to burn or stand.  If someone has works and it all burns due to being done for the wrong reason, is he just like the person who has no works to be tested?

 

The true question at this point is if the person we are seeing with no works after a period of time, were they really saved in the first place?  The difference being that the one whose works were burned, he at least had works to be tested.  But what are we actually doing when we stand in judgment of another?  Are we not pretending we are God and can see into the hearts of other, or that we know all their works or lack of works?  I’d say yes, we are trying to judge as God judges.  The best we should do with these verses are to judge only ourselves.  Are we doing the works we are created to do?  I suggest that we keep it personal and not as a measuring rod for anyone else but ourselves.

 

Who is this Paul Washer ?

Such a long thread and I never heard of him.. 

[warrior12]

14 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Who is this Paul Washer ?

Such a long thread and I never heard of him.. 

Go to sermonaudio.com and search for that name.  You can hear or sample his sermons there ect.   Actually, i just checked  and he has 685 sermons listed there.  Paul Washer preachers in a way that is sometimes sentimental or emotional.  His messages, well let's say, you have to listen for yourself and make your call.  He is popular on youtube also.  Hope this helps you. 

[MyLordsServant]

10 minutes ago, Yowm said:

You say you agree with me multiple times, but then come back and show me where I need correcting. Why?

You even say I am ignoring James 2:14, even though I have explained multiple times my position that true faith apprehends the living Savior, is regenerated by Him and has Him working within both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

So you now quote..."For I say to you*, unless your* righteousness greatly exceeds [that] of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means shall you* enter into the kingdom of the heavens."

... which goes to the heart of the matter, i.e. "There is none righteous, none that does good' our only hope is in the imputed righteousness of Christ freely given through faith in the Sinless One Jesus Christ...that is the only  way our righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees and scribes...all else is from pride.

Then you say, "You can throw quotes around, but without their implied meaning, you won't get anywhere."  Quoting Scripture is not 'throwing quotes around' and the meaning is not implied but very clear as Scripture interprets Scripture nicely.

 

1. Faith = Salvation (exclusive of 2)

2. Salvation = Works (not exclusive of 1)

3. No works =  Salvation? (mutually exclusive)

This is my overall point^. Works means your heart has changed and you have a desire to do God's will. If you don't do God's will, then you probably aren't saved. If you are saved, sinning is possible, but you hate the sin and repent immediately.