Saturday or Sunday?

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, Giller said:

The Catholic churches Lord's day is not the same as the one mentioned in the bible, it focuses strictly on Sunday, and not the first day of the week mentioned in the bible, and their view is also in some fashion different, which I have proof.

Peace:

The 'Lord's Day' always was the Sabbath. Unless called out differently, such as, "they met on the first day", or something like that. Often they met on many days in the early church. However, sun-day or the first day is never referred to as a 'Sabbath'.

There is much documentation of the Sabbath Lords Day being changed by the Romans to the first day of the week or their sun-day. I do not need to quote it again on here, there are many, many accounts of this and Roman edicts etc available online to substantiate this.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Justin Adams

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, Giller said:

You seem to repeat the same thing over and over again, yet not making a distinction between the Roman's Sunday (12 am to 12 am) vs the the first day of the week mentioned in the bible, which would be even Saturday to even Sunday.

You just repeat and ignore the first day of the week mentioned in the bible.

Basically repeat Catholicism enough, then the other 1rst day of the week can be ignored.

That is basically the argument.

I am not sure why this is important anyway.
The Roman times at the Yeshua's death were 6am to 6am. The Roman work day. Even some Hebrews kept to that idea due to commerce. However evening and morning were still kept for the Sabbath days by the Hebrews as God had ordained in the beginning.

There is no documented evidence that the first day of the week was ever called the Lord's Day EXCEPT by Rome.

[Justin Adams]

6 minutes ago, Giller said:

Here is a link, I do not agree with everything in this article, but it does say a lot of interesting things:

http://www.fryroad.org/_fryroad/BibleStudy/SabbathToday/FirstDayoftheWeek/tabid/233/Default.aspx

There are quite a few 'fake' statements floating around. But very few organised dissertations. Some are so poorly written they still assume good friday thru sunday as scripturally correct. It is not.

Remember, no work could be done on the Sabbath. So 'to put things aside' instruction by an Apostle, would be for any day except the Sabbath of rest. I have read most of the 'fathers' and find the best and most widely researched treatise here: http://sabbath.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BOOK/k/955/Sunday-Lords-Day-Not-Traceable-to-Apostles.htm

Here is a short excerpt:

General statement respecting the Ante-Nicene Fathers—The change of the Sabbath never mentioned by one of these Fathers—Examination of the historical argument for Sunday as the Lord's day—This argument compared with the like argument for the Catholic festival of the Passover.

The Ante-Nicene Fathers1 are those Christian writers who flourished after the time of the apostles, and before the council of Nicaea, A.D. 325. Those who governed their lives by the volume of inspiration do not recognize any authority in these Fathers to change any precept of that book, nor to add any new precepts to it. But those whose rule of life is the Bible as modified by tradition, regard the early Fathers of the church as nearly or quite equal in authority to the inspired writers. They declare that the Fathers conversed with the apostles; or if they did not do this, they conversed with some who had seen some of the apostles; or, at least, they lived within a few generations of the apostles, and so learned by tradition, which involved only a few transitions from father to son, what was the true doctrine of the apostles.

Thus with perfect assurance they supply the lack of inspired testimony in behalf of the so-called Christian Sabbath by plentiful quotations from the early Fathers. What if there be no mention of the change of the Sabbath in the New Testament? And what if there be no commandment for resting from labor on the first day of the week? Or, what if there be no method revealed in the Bible by which the first day of the week can be enforced by the fourth commandment? They supply these serious omissions in the Scriptures by testimonies which they say were written by men who lived during the first three hundred years after the apostles.

[Justin Adams]

35 minutes ago, Giller said:

Oh well I guess I will leave it at that, because I know when someone is into a denomination they tend  to follow what their denomination says. (though not all).

It tends to become fact no matter what is said, because their leaders said so, and they point to documents that of course they approve.

Now I do not expect them  to point to documents they disapprove of, but that each person does his own research for himself.

 

Peace:

I do not hold with any denomination. All my research is my own; though some is aided by those I think that understand and report to the best of their ability what they see as truth.

I am interested in truth, and perhaps more to the point, those that would willfully obscure it.

A great deal is laid at the feet of anyone speaking on here. It has so many millions of witnesses. If we are correct, then we further the truth. If we do  not know, then the honest answer should be to that effect.

That is why I do not join in the discussion of future prophesy. I just am not sure. Oh, like most I have a rough time-line, but arguing fruitlessly about obscure verses seems disingenuous to the cause of truth-seeking. So I generally keep silent. I do voice what I believe is true, but never do I hint at infallibility like the church does.

I do like past prophesy, since aligning that with real events shows the unbeliever that God is in charge and His-story (History) is what unveils His Great Glory and Designs for all of mankind that believes on the Risen Lord Yeshua (Jesus). It is one of the best witnessing tools there is. Correct history.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Justin Adams
syn

[Justin Adams]

Just now, Giller said:

And in the past there were many revivals, which started with people who believed in a first day of the week sabbath, such as Charles Spurgeon, D.L Moody, stuff in regards to Finney, Duncan Campbell, and many, many others, but what is happening now, as a whole is not very much.

As I mentioned already, the Lord is not limited by our limited understanding. He is not limited by our appropriations made in error. I am sure Wigglesworth swallowed the church stuff too. It did not stop God using him greatly. Now the Lord is moving on. He never is stagnant.

What may be happening now is a consolidation. A strengthening. Also some unprecedented weirdness to offset that, or the consolidation (knowing the Lord and His penchant for humor and action where least expected) is His way of showing us that His Knowledge and Revelations far surpasses that of any device of the enemy, or man in his foolishness.

I think The Lord God is choosing individuals of no particular measure to offset the world's movements. The denominations have mostly become powerless pawns of governments and are top heavy with little real life or power. These mainstreams of 'belief' are so tightly locked in each other's death embrace that they fight for numbers and survival rather than souls.
That they have become somewhat irrelevant is a sad shame. But no surprise to the Lord. They mostly exist to project their progenitor's dogmas and doctrines. They have little to offer except increasingly loud bells and whistles along with a certain exclusive club-membership type of mentality.
Abortion, divorce, psychology, and evolutionary beliefs are found among most of its members and as far as the 'civilian' press goes, they are no threat to anyone and differ in name only from any other commercial or personal members of society. Ineffectual to a large extent, and now, to 'stay in the club', they are joining with Kenneth Copeland and his move back to the Roman Church.

"My people perish through lack of knowledge."

"There are still many that have not bent the knee to Baal."

[OneLight]

2 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

7 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

You need to find a way better bible because this one appears to be horrible

You need to open your eyes and see the truth.

Is this bickering really necessary?

[HAZARD]

14 hours ago, Abdicate said:

I'm not talking about the Sabbath as a law, nor am I saying anything about the law. I'm talking about the Saturday resurrection and what it means. All the verses you posted are all based on the ceremonial events linked to the law concerning the Sabbath. I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT talking about the Sabbath laws. I'm talking about the Sabbath day itself, it's existence, it's reason, it's purpose since Creation not Moses. I don't know what else to say. I've been accused of and labeled as being SDA, a legalist, and ignorant of the Greek, all to keep dogma going like the Pharisees did. Furthermore, I have never judged anyone about "keeping" the Sabbath in fact I've BEGGED BEGGED BEGGED people to tell what that even means. I have shown from the Scriptures what it means and it's never accepted but like you, given verses about being done away with as if the day doesn't exist. I've tried.

I'm not accusing you or calling you anything and never will. I understand your frustration.

 

The day, Saturday still exists but worshiping on the Sabbath is no longer necessary. You say your talking about the Sabbath day itself, it's existence, it's reason, it's purpose since Creation not Moses.

Sabbath day worship has been blotted out, not the day itself.

Coll. 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

V. 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

V. 16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

V. 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.

 
Paul wrote, But why dost thou judge they brother? or why dost thou set at nought they brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ . . . . So the every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more."

If the law of Moses, including the fourth commandment, was in force in the new covenant the above statement would never have been written by Paul. Each Christian can do as he pleases concerning the Sabbath and is not to be judged by his brother "Any More."

Christian experiences do not come by the law. "Receive ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?. . . .the law is not of faith: but. the man who doeth them [things of the law] shall live in them. . . . how turn ye AGAIN to the weak beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage?" (Gal. 1:6-9; 2:15-21; 3:1-12, 19-25; 4:1-3, 19-31; 5:1-9, 11-21).

"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years [that the law required]. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed labour upon you in vain" (Gal. 3:1-12; 4:9-11). Going back to observe Sabbaths according to the law is spoken of here as going back into the bondage of the law. If one does this he is a debtor to do the whole law (Gal. 5:3).

The law was added because of transgressions, TILL THE SEED [Christ] SHOULD COME to whom the promise was made . . . But before faith came [that Christ brought in the gospel and the new covenant, Heb. 12:1, 2],we were kept under the law, shut up unto that faith WHICH SHOULD AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED. . . .Wherefor the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, THAT we might be justified by faith.

BUT AFTER that faith is come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER" (Gal 3:19-25). Not being under the law here is explained as being out from under its authority like one who is no longer under a schoolmaster when we graduate from school. The law is not in force and it has no claim or authority over the person under the new covenant. He is under the obligation to keep the new covenant laws and commandments, which include new laws that were never part of the old covenant, as well as those that God saw fit to make a part of the new covenant.

The law, including the ten commandments, has been "CAST OUT"; "Tell me YE DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW, do ye not hear the law. For it is written that Abraham had TWO SONS. . . . he who was of the BONDWOMAN was born after the flesh; but he of the FREEWOMAN was by promise.

WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY: for THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM MOUNT SINAI, which GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, is [Hagar]. . . .and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and IS IN BONDAGE with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above IS FREE, which in the mother of us all. . . .Now we, brethren, as Isaac, are the children of promise. BUT AS EVEN SO IT IS NOW. Nevertheless what sayeth the Scripture? CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN [the first or old covenant FROM MOUNT SINAI]  AND HER SON [those under the law]; for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then brethren, WE ARE NOT CHILDREN OF THE BONDWOMAN [the old ten commandment covenant and its many laws], BUT OF THE FREE [the new covenant].

Stand fast therefor IN THE LIBERTY wherein Christ hath made us FREE, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN, WHITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE [the old covenant]. . . .  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised [no man had any part in the old covenant unless he was circumcised], that he is a debtor TO DO THE WHOLE LAW" (Gal. 4:21-31; 5:1-5, 18).

[Riccardo]

14 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Matthew 28:1 (YLT)
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

Thanks Brother, 

I already am a Sabbath keeper, I recently moved & have now just found the box my bible things were in & I can see it now in my interlinear bible that you are correct.

I'm still unsure of how you get the answer that Jesus rose on THE Sabbath.. if that is what you are saying?

My reasoning is, Luke 23:54 That day was the preparation, & the Sabbath drew near. 55/ & the woman who had come with him from Galilee followed after, & they observed how his body was laid. 56/ then they returned & prepared spices & fragrant oils. & rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Right here it seems one of many good case for the Sabbath alone,  It is obvious at this stage Jesus hasn't done away with the Sabbath.

 These women obviously loved Jesus & were preparing his body after His crucifixion, In there labor of love they cease to rest on the Sabbath.

Lk 24:1 (Greek) & on the Sabbath they rested according to the command . But one of the week, wile still very early, they came on the tomb.

 They rested on the Sabbath, it is highly unlikely they broke the Sabbath. Seeing the Holy Spirit says they rested.

God Bless

 

 

[Pudgenik]

I have only one question. Will going to church save you?

Going to church, to worship God is just that, to Worship Him who created us. 

The arguing over Saturday or Sunday is a mute point, it is silly at best. If you do not put God at the center of your life, and strive to be Holy. And condemn others who don't think as you do. What is the point at saying you are God's Children at all.  

It is the bottom line that is most important. Is Jesus in the center of your heart. Nothing is more important.

[Riccardo]

15 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Coll. 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

V. 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

V. 16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

V. 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.

Brother this has been explained over & over.

The hand writing of requirements were placed in the side of the arc not in it with the 10 commandments and are separate in meaning.

The shadows were all pointers pointing forward to Christ  the Sabbath day was instituted at creation not pointing forward, like the ceremonial sabbaths. The Sabbath cannot be a shadow as it was before sin & there was no need at that stage to have pointers. 

God Bless