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An unprecedented event: would you join this?


listener24

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On 9/16/2018 at 12:11 PM, george747 said:

I will happily join those who are eagerly awaiting and praying for the soon return and appearing of our Lord Jesus, "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." 2 Timothy 4:8. Much of the church, and of course the world, could care less about our Lords return because they love this world and the things that are in this world. The Lord said that the way to life was narrow and that where our treasure is, there our heart will be also. It's a joy to look up if our treasure is in heaven.

Welcome to the Unprecendeted Event George. The time has come indeed for the Bride of Christ to pray come, “The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” (Revelation 22:17) and “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!” (Revelation 22:20). 

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On 9/16/2018 at 3:11 PM, george747 said:

I will happily join those who are eagerly awaiting and praying for the soon return and appearing of our Lord Jesus, "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." 2 Timothy 4:8

Glad you are joining the prayer brother! Every single prayer according to the will of God has an effect, and we couldn't be more sure about how Biblical is the prayer for the Bridegroom to come. Starting from the Our Father, the prayer taught by Jesus Himself, when prayed with the right understanding.

On 9/16/2018 at 3:11 PM, george747 said:

Much of the church, and of course the world, could care less about our Lords return because they love this world and the things that are in this world. The Lord said that the way to life was narrow and that where our treasure is, there our heart will be also. It's a joy to look up if our treasure is in heaven.

You are right, unfortunately worldliness leads to not care about our blessed hope of the Return of Jesus, or even fearing it!

I love your Scripture about our treasure in Heaven.

Indeed, true Christians get a huge part of their motivation from the blessed desire of Heaven. I always have goosebumps when I read these words of Jesus:

""Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world."
 

A way to fight the worldliness is indeed focus our prayers on this blessed hope of Jesus Return, "thy Kingdom come/come quickly Lord", knowing that when we pray "your will be done" it is also included the request of whatever is needed to get there.

"But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."

Maranatha!

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On 11/6/2018 at 5:02 AM, SelahSong said:

This is a very interesting study, Listener!  I need to study and meditate on all this. … so much to learn. I do believe that since Jesus Himself taught us The Lord’s Prayer, Christians everywhere should be praying it.  … Thank you, brother.

Selah:emot-heartbeat:

Sister, did you get the chance to study and pray about the subject? What do you think?

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Fascinating discussion...Jesus told the disciples that only the Father knows the day and the hour of a His return...we cannot change God’s mind..God says repeatedly through the Bible, ‘I am the Lord I do not change’. 

Can we do anything to hasten Jesus return..He is waiting for the last one to come and receive a Him as Lord...that is why ‘the full number’ is not in. I heard it is a reference to a boat...not all are in the boat

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43 minutes ago, Littlelambseativy said:

Fascinating discussion...Jesus told the disciples that only the Father knows the day and the hour of a His return...we cannot change God’s mind..God says repeatedly through the Bible, ‘I am the Lord I do not change’. 

Can we do anything to hasten Jesus return..He is waiting for the last one to come and receive a Him as Lord...that is why ‘the full number’ is not in. I heard it is a reference to a boat...not all are in the boat

Interesting point of view Littlelamb, thanks for sharing it!

It is true that we don't "change the Lord" by hastening the day of the Lord. The Scripture you quoted, taken in context, just means that we can be sure that the attributes of the Lord such as mercy, forgiveness, righteousness, love etc. do not change.

The points you presented have been discussed here in the previous pages with some other users, and I'll wrap them up for you:

1) The fact that "no one knows the Day but only the Father" doesn't by any mean contradict our role in speeding it up.

This because God's foreknowledge by any means implies that God doesn't listen to our prayers and or that He doesn't take into account our prayers when He operates. Instead He both knew everything and He decided everything taking into account our choices and our prayers as well.

For instance, can you pray for someone's healing? Would you ever say to someone praying for someone healing "stop praying, it's useless, only God knows that day in which that person will heal. God doesn't change His mind".

You would never say that, simply because it is both true that:

1) the Lord knows that day when someone will get healed

2) the prayer may influence that day, if it's according to God's will to listen to that prayer

Otherwise Jesus would have never said "ask and you will receive".

He would say "don't ask since the Lord knows the time of every event", according to the logic you are presenting here, but He didn't say that because the topic of foreknowledge is ultimately unrelated.

 

2) Furthermore, even if it's the case that the Lord is waiting "a certain number of people", when we spread the Gospel we are actually hastening the period in which that certain number of period will be reached! So we do indeed have an active role, and it's quite a responsibility! Now why should our active role be true for outreaching and not for prayers?

 

3) Finally, many Christian all over history have interpreted the Lord prayer primarily as a prayer for His Second Coming, and 2Peter says exactly that we can "speed up" that Day. I think 2 Peter is right in its claim.

 

4) Therefore, as point 1,2,3 confirms, Jesus suggestion about "no one knows the day", just means: "don't believe those who predict a specific day. They are false prophets". Indeed many of such false prophets came. Many tried to "predict", but our role is much more exciting than "predicting". Our role is to speed it up!

 

I hope you will see these just as kind suggestions and hints to think about the ideas, nothing personal, on the contrary I appreciate your posts. :) 

If you don't agree with this line of refutation, please address my answers point by point.

If you instead agree, join in the cry of the Bride who is eagerly awaiting and speeding up her Bridegroom's Return!

 

 For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”

And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?

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Because of God’s foreknowledge, He already knew before the earth was created that we would pray for those not yet His, and absolutely are we to pray ‘Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done ..” but it changes not the fact that God does not change..regarding His Word, His timeframe for history, the coming into the kingdom of the last person, or the coming of Jesus for His saints. I believe God has taken into account our prayers for others before time began.

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On 1/1/2019 at 3:01 PM, Littlelambseativy said:

Because of God’s foreknowledge, He already knew before the earth was created that we would pray for those not yet His, and absolutely are we to pray ‘Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done ..” but it changes not the fact that God does not change..regarding His Word, His timeframe for history, the coming into the kingdom of the last person, or the coming of Jesus for His saints. I believe God has taken into account our prayers for others before time began. 

Dear Littlelamb, I think it would be easier if, as I've done with you, you can quote point by point of what I say and either agree or try to refute. If I wasn't clear feel free to ask clarifications.

Otherwise if we answer each other with "streams" of "mixed" thoughts it would be harder to outline all the concepts discussed.

You say:

" absolutely are we to pray ‘Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done ..” but it changes not the fact that God does not change"

This sentence ignore what I've just answered.

It's not enough to just repeat "it changes not", otherwise I would just repeat "it indeed change" and we could continue forever without increasing the number of aspects outlined.

Instead if you think the points I've presented in the previous answer are wrong, can you please show me where they are wrong?

Thanks for your patience :) God bless you

 

I will report them here again:

 

1) The fact that "no one knows the Day but only the Father" doesn't by any mean contradict our role in speeding it up.

This because God's foreknowledge by any means implies that God doesn't listen to our prayers and or that He doesn't take into account our prayers when He operates. Instead He both knew everything and He decided everything taking into account our choices and our prayers as well.

For instance, can you pray for someone's healing? Would you ever say to someone praying for someone healing "stop praying, it's useless, only God knows that day in which that person will heal. God doesn't change His mind".

You would never say that, simply because it is both true that:

1) the Lord knows that day when someone will get healed

2) the prayer may influence that day, if it's according to God's will to listen to that prayer

Otherwise Jesus would have never said "ask and you will receive".

He would say "don't ask since the Lord knows the time of every event", according to the logic you are presenting here, but He didn't say that because the topic of foreknowledge is ultimately unrelated.

 

2) Furthermore, even if it's the case that the Lord is waiting "a certain number of people", when we spread the Gospel we are actually hastening the period in which that certain number of period will be reached! So we do indeed have an active role, and it's quite a responsibility! Now why should our active role be true for outreaching and not for prayers?

 

3) Finally, many Christian all over history have interpreted the Lord prayer primarily as a prayer for His Second Coming, and 2Peter says exactly that we can "speed up" that Day. I think 2 Peter is right in its claim.

 

4) Therefore, as point 1,2,3 confirms, Jesus suggestion about "no one knows the day", just means: "don't believe those who predict a specific day. They are false prophets". Indeed many of such false prophets came. Many tried to "predict", but our role is much more exciting than "predicting". Our role is to speed it up!

Thy Kingdom come!

Deliver us from the evil one Lord

Maranatha

 

 

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On 1/4/2019 at 7:27 AM, SkilletFan said:

@listener24 I don't want to misuse your thread but I did want an avenue to reach out. I remember you were the first person to welcome me to Worthy and I really appreciate that. I'm sorry that we kind of lost touch and I suppose drifted, maybe even drifted because I sometimes have a harsher-than-I-should view of Philosophy these days. I do not know. But that's besides the point. I wanted to tell you I have had a great time on here, that I enjoy this thread of yours, and that believe it or not, God caused two whole miracles to happen in my life.

Dear SkilletFan, great to hear from you!

I am so glad you are enjoying this forum and I remember having some great conversations with you.

There were some periods in which I haven't come here into this forum very much, so I guess that's how we didn't stay in touch.

But real brothers and sisters in Christ, even when they don't communicate often, never lose the connection in Christ with each other.

I also praise God for the miracles in your life. Remember: He is a Faithful God, He doesn't want to lose any of us. Let's keep diving into His Scriptures and in the service that He calls us to do for others.

 

And just to reconnect to this thread, let's always keep praying persistently for speeding up the final liberation of our our siblings.

Thy Kingdom Come Lord!
Maranatha

Deliver us from the evil one, forever, Father

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I haven't had time to read all the many posts on this topic. I do believe that the Lord God stands outside of time that He isn't surprised by anything and that He knows all things. I know as scripture states that He changes not (Malchi 3:6) is one of those scriptures. But a God that changes not, how does that apply to prayer for I believe prayer changes things. I will unfortunately be possibly unorganized in my statements so please bare with me. I ask myself what changes not about God?  Many things, more than I can mention, but God is God, he has always been and always will be. He didn't simply create the universe, he is the universe. He is above all things and in all things. All things are created from his light. Man from his light, spirit and breath. He is love and will always be love. His love will always be perfect as well as his timing in all things. But in this I also know that mercy is always God's will. His mercy can be seen in various ways. He heals someone from a fatal illness that is mercy. If allows someone to pass that is also mercy. To pray for mercy is a prayer that should always be. The Lord's soon return would indeed be a mercy. But it is only one of many prayers needed. The Apostle John when seeing the things he wrote about in Revelation even prayed for the Lord to come soon. But even in our seeking the Lord's return we must also be seeking a great revival for many hearts to turn to the Lord. I truly believe there will be a great revival that will occur. I also believe in the signs of things that must be before the Lord's return, but I know these things can start quickly. 

The Lord is omnipotent and thus has the qualities of omnipotence. If the Lord God knows the beginning from the end then He even knows when prayers he desires will be spoken. He gives man free will, but He also guides and directs man. Think about this, If God knows beginning from end and is omnipotent and time does not apply to him. He is the one that created time and this is something one must believe for a stumbling block for unbelievers is that God has always existed. But in faith, we know he has always existed and does exist. God isn't surprised by what lies before us tomorrow or a year from now. But in knowing this, the Lord can place you in a certain place and a certain time to change things. He chose even the time in which you were born. If you read in Amos 7, that the Lord did things and then changed it to where it did not happen due to the prayers of Amos. I believe the Lord God is stop time, change time. He can make it where someone never existed, etc....  If all of this sounds too fantastic then you are as me in that I am in total awe of an Almighty God, the great I AM that is beyond and above anything!

I thought a good point brought forth by Listener24 was the fact that we should pray the promises. There is a beautiful prayer from Daniel when he realized the exile of Israel was coming to an end. He prayed for what he already knew was going to occur. 

I have spoken too much and many may think I am a nut by now. But I serve an Awesome God and I believe is He far beyond what many realize.

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@Tigger56 This is a great answer that touches many points, all worth reasoning on.

On 4/8/2019 at 11:23 AM, Tigger56 said:

I do believe that the Lord God stands outside of time that He isn't surprised by anything and that He knows all things. I know as scripture states that He changes not (Malchi 3:6) is one of those scriptures. But a God that changes not, how does that apply to prayer for I believe prayer changes things.

This is true!

Some may argue that "God changes not" means that prayer are irrelevant. But this point wouldn't be Biblical at all.

From the very beginning to the end God listen to prayers, and hasten or delay things based on prayers.

So it is true that the Lord changes not: He has always been listening to prayers and taken them into account for His decision, and He will always be, He will never change this trait of using prayers. He is the God who said: "ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you".

On 4/8/2019 at 11:23 AM, Tigger56 said:

The Lord's soon return would indeed be a mercy.

This is a great point to keep in mind.

Maybe if we have a very comfortable life, in a safe country, from our couch we may think that the Return of the Lord is something to fear.

But if we keep in mind all the infants suffering, all the Christians persecuted, all the poors oppressed, then we'll realize that the Return of the King is the greatest mercy.

On 4/8/2019 at 11:23 AM, Tigger56 said:

But it is only one of many prayers needed. The Apostle John when seeing the things he wrote about in Revelation even prayed for the Lord to come soon. But even in our seeking the Lord's return we must also be seeking a great revival for many hearts to turn to the Lord. I truly believe there will be a great revival that will occur. I also believe in the signs of things that must be before the Lord's return, but I know these things can start quickly. 

True.

We are not to just pray "Maranatha, come quickly Lord" by ourself alone.

It is still fundamental to spread the Gospel in the whole world as a testimony to all nations. So for example we should pray the Lord to send workers to harvest His field.

The prayer Maranatha, Thy Kingdom Come, Come quickly Lord should be the burning desire out of which every other prayer burns.

On 4/8/2019 at 11:23 AM, Tigger56 said:

The Lord is omnipotent and thus has the qualities of omnipotence. If the Lord God knows the beginning from the end then He even knows when prayers he desires will be spoken. He gives man free will, but He also guides and directs man

This is so true!

And He is indeed speaking mightly about this in these last day.

He is making the prophecy happening: "the Spirit and the Bride say Come".

For centuries this prayer was lost, except for some remnants, and now is being restored on a global scale. All out of His will.

We can take part of His work of Restoration.

On 4/8/2019 at 11:23 AM, Tigger56 said:

God isn't surprised by what lies before us tomorrow or a year from now. But in knowing this, the Lord can place you in a certain place and a certain time to change things. He chose even the time in which you were born. If you read in Amos 7, that the Lord did things and then changed it to where it did not happen due to the prayers of Amos. I believe the Lord God is stop time, change time. He can make it where someone never existed, etc....  If all of this sounds too fantastic then you are as me in that I am in total awe of an Almighty God, the great I AM that is beyond and above anything! 

Amen! Amazing and encouraging thoughts.

On 4/8/2019 at 11:23 AM, Tigger56 said:

I thought a good point brought forth by Listener24 was the fact that we should pray the promises. There is a beautiful prayer from Daniel when he realized the exile of Israel was coming to an end. He prayed for what he already knew was going to occur.  

Woah!! What a great example from Daniel! I'm very inspired by this.

Given all of these considerations, I believe it's safe to state that everyone who join this prayer with their hearts and will, make an important difference. @Tigger56 would you agree?

I'm very inspired by the whole answer, thanks!

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