Who are the twenty four Elders around the throne of God in Rev.4:4 ?

[angels4u]

How about this explanation?

 

What John saw around the throne: the twenty-four elders.

Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

a. Around the throne were twenty-four thrones: Before the elders caught John’s eye, he noticed the twenty-four thrones they sat on. These twenty-four elders sat on lesser thrones, around the throne. Later John will mention their song of worship (Revelation 4:10-11).

b. On the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting: Who are these twenty-four elders? Commentators debate whether they are glorified human beings or angelic beings. Taking all things into consideration, the elders certainly seem to represent God’s people.

i. Elders represent the people of God, especially in the Old Testament. The 24 courses of the priesthood represented all the priests (1 Chronicles 24), and the 12 tribes and the 12 apostles represent all the faithful.

ii. In Revelation 5:9-10, the twenty-four elders sang a song of praise to Jesus, and they cried out: For You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation. In that passage, the twenty-four elders clearly spoke as representatives of all God’s people, of the great company of the redeemed.

c. Clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads: The white robes and crowns of the elders seem to indicate that they are indeed human beings – in glory, of course.

i. Angels are sometimes presented in white robes or garments (Mark 16:5; John 20:12; Acts 1:10), but saints also have white robes (Revelation 6:11, 7:9, 13-14) as a picture of their imputed righteousness (Isaiah 61:10, Revelation 3:5-18). However, we never see angels crowned but believers will be (1 Corinthians 9:25; 2 Timothy 4:8; 1 Peter 5:4).

ii. Therefore, redeemed, glorified man sits enthroned with Jesus. On lesser thrones, to be sure, but thrones none the less. We are joint heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), and we will reign with Him (2 Timothy 2:12).https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/revelation-4/

[Spiros]

We have to look at the chapter as a whole.

 

1 Throne and 24 Elders.

1 day consisting 24 hours

 

7 Lamps of Fire

7 days of the week

 

4 Living Creatures

4 seasons of the year

 

A biblical year consists of 360 days

1 circle consists of 360 degrees

we have 60 minutes of a degree and for each minute we have 60 seconds of a degree

 

1 circle = 360 x 60 x 60 = 1,000 x 6 x 6 x 6 x 6 seconds of a degree = 1,000 x 1296 seconds of a degree

 

In Greek, "24 Elders" is "24 ΠΡΕΣΒΥΤΕΡΟΙ" or "24 Presbuteroi". The isopsephy value:

 

24 ΠΡΕΣΒΥΤΕΡΟΙ = 24 + (80+100+5+200+2+400+300+5+100+70+10) = 1296

 

But:

6 x 6 x 6 x 6 = 1296 (24 Elders)

6+6+6+6 = 24 (24 Elders)

 

But I believe this also refers to the elder relatives, which seems to be feminine. The maternal line defines who is Jewish.

 

I take the singular names in Greek for "Elder" (masculine: ΠΡΕΣΒΥΤΕΡΟΣ{presbuteros}), "Candle" (feminine: ΛΑΜΠΑΣ{lampas}) and "Throne" (ΘΡΟΝΟΣ{thronos}), "animal" (neutral: ΖΩΟΝ{zoon}) and I add the corresponding values which are 24, 7, and 4. Here I don't take 24 twice and I don't add 1 for 1 throne because the number itself is not mentioned in the Bible.

 

ΘΡΟΝΟΣ ΠΡΕΣΒΥΤΕΡΟΣ 24 + ΛΑΜΠΑΣ 7 + ΖΩΟΝ 4 = (9+100+70+50+70+200+80+100+5+200+2+400+300+5+100+70+200+24)+(30+1+40+80+1+200+7)+(7+800+70+50+4) = 1985+ 359 + 931 = 3,275

 

The throne here corresponds to the settlement being the capital of the region. Sepphoris was the capital of Galilee. Virgin Mary according to tradition was born in Sepphoris.

 

3,275 => geographical latitude = 32.75 degrees

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Spiros

[JoeCanada]

Read Daniel 7 really carefully.

Pay special attention to verses 9-10

“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ^[h]ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
¹⁰ “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

"The court sat"

Who is all in the court room?

You have the Judge....(GOD)... the prosecution. the defence, the jurors.

Because they are "ELDERS", it would make sense that these "24 elders" are jurors. They are part of the heavenly court.

And if you look further in Daniel 7.....

" But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, ^[ae]annihilated and destroyed ^[af]forever. ²⁷ Then the ^[ag]sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the ^[ah]saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

The saints will receive the kingdom after the beast is destroyed.... not 7 years before.

The 24 elders are obviously NOT the church.... NOT the many billions of people.

Just 24!

 

 

[DeighAnn]

The elders in heaven are the elders OF THE HEAVENLY HOST....

1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

AND ANYONE WHO CLAIMS ANYTHING DIFFERENT IS GUESSING AT BEST and CERTAINLY should never use 'the elders' to promote ANY THEORY WHATSOEVER...

So there are elders in heaven just like there are 'elders' on earth 


"And Joseph went up to bury his father: and with him went up all the servants of Pharaoh, the elders of his house, and all the elders of the land of Egypt," Genesis 50:7 KJV

"Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:" Exodus 3:16 KJV
 

"And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him." Exodus 19:7 KJV

"And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD." Leviticus 4:15 KJV
 

"And Moab said unto the elders of Midian, Now shall this company lick up all that are round about us, as the ox licketh up the grass of the field. And Balak the son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at that time." Numbers 22:4 KJV
 

"Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die." Deuteronomy 19:12 KJV

"And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;" Deuteronomy 22:16 KJV

"Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them." Deuteronomy 31:28 KJV

"And all Israel, and their elders, and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, as well the stranger, as he that was born among them; half of them over against mount Gerizim, and half of them over against mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel." Joshua 8:33 KJV

"And it was so, that when the children of Ammon made war against Israel, the elders of Gilead went to fetch Jephthah out of the land of Tob:" Judges 11:5 KJV

"Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD thy God." 1 Samuel 15:30 KJV
 

"And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them." 2 Samuel 12:17 KJV
 

"And king David sent to Zadok and to Abiathar the priests, saying, Speak unto the elders of Judah, saying, Why are ye the last to bring the king back to his house? seeing the speech of all Israel is come to the king, even to his house." 2 Samuel 19:11 KJV

"Then the king of Israel called all the elders of the land, and said, Mark, I pray you, and see how this man seeketh mischief: for he sent unto me for my wives, and for my children, and for my silver, and for my gold; and I denied him not." 1 Kings 20:7 KJV
 

"And the men of his city, even the elders and the nobles who were the inhabitants in his city, did as Jezebel had sent unto them, and as it was written in the letters which she had sent unto them." 1 Kings 21:11 KJV
 

"And he sent Eliakim, which was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests, covered with sackcloth, to Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz." 2 Kings 19:2 KJV

"But the eye of their God was upon the elders of the Jews, that they could not cause them to cease, till the matter came to Darius: and then they returned answer by letter concerning this matter." Ezra 5:5 KJV

"Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us." Ezra 10:14 KJV

"The elders of the daughter of Zion sit upon the ground, and keep silence: they have cast up dust upon their heads; they have girded themselves with sackcloth: the virgins of Jerusalem hang down their heads to the ground." Lamentations 2:10 KJV
 

"Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas," Matthew 26:3 KJV

"And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed." Acts 14:23 KJV
 

"And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them." Acts 15:4 KJV
 

"Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:" Acts 15:22 KJV

"And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church." Acts 20:17 KJV

 

"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:" 1 Peter 5:1 KJV
 

"And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold." Revelation 4:4 KJV

"And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." Revelation 5:5 KJV
 

"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth." Revelation 5:6 KJV

"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth." Revelation 14:3 KJV
 

[Diaste]

On 7/13/2023 at 9:42 AM, angels4u said:

How about this explanation?

 

What John saw around the throne: the twenty-four elders.

Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

a. Around the throne were twenty-four thrones: Before the elders caught John’s eye, he noticed the twenty-four thrones they sat on. These twenty-four elders sat on lesser thrones, around the throne. Later John will mention their song of worship (Revelation 4:10-11).

b. On the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting: Who are these twenty-four elders? Commentators debate whether they are glorified human beings or angelic beings. Taking all things into consideration, the elders certainly seem to represent God’s people.

i. Elders represent the people of God, especially in the Old Testament. The 24 courses of the priesthood represented all the priests (1 Chronicles 24), and the 12 tribes and the 12 apostles represent all the faithful.

ii. In Revelation 5:9-10, the twenty-four elders sang a song of praise to Jesus, and they cried out: For You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation. In that passage, the twenty-four elders clearly spoke as representatives of all God’s people, of the great company of the redeemed.

c. Clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads: The white robes and crowns of the elders seem to indicate that they are indeed human beings – in glory, of course.

i. Angels are sometimes presented in white robes or garments (Mark 16:5; John 20:12; Acts 1:10), but saints also have white robes (Revelation 6:11, 7:9, 13-14) as a picture of their imputed righteousness (Isaiah 61:10, Revelation 3:5-18). However, we never see angels crowned but believers will be (1 Corinthians 9:25; 2 Timothy 4:8; 1 Peter 5:4).

ii. Therefore, redeemed, glorified man sits enthroned with Jesus. On lesser thrones, to be sure, but thrones none the less. We are joint heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), and we will reign with Him (2 Timothy 2:12).https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/revelation-4/

This is the mystery of the seven stars you saw in My right hand and of the seven golden lampstands:

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

[Spiros]

Another isopephy relation:

 

Using the Hellenic words for Jesus, throne, elders, lamps, animals, as ΙΗΣΟΥΣ(Iesous), ΘΡΟΝΟΣ(thronos), ΠΡΕΣΒΥΤΕΡΟΙ(presbuteroi), ΛΑΜΠΑΔΕΣ(lampades), and ΖΩΑ(zoa):

 

ΙΗΣΟΥΣ + ΘΡΟΝΟΣ + ΠΡΕΣΒΥΤΕΡΟΙ + ΛΑΜΠΑΔΕΣ + ΖΩΑ = (10+8+200+70+400+200)+(9+100+70+50+70+200)+(80+100+5+200+2+400+300+5+100+70+10)+(30+1+40+80+1+4+5+200)+(7+800+1) = 888+499+1272+361+808 = 3828

 

This is therefore pointing us to the center of Hellas(latitude). Taking the Northernmost point of Hellas and the Southernmost point we can computer the average and see that the latitude is 38.28 degrees.

 

It makes sense to but the throne in the middle.

 

This can very well relate to Boeotia as can be see by analyzing the New Jerusalem code.

 

The fact that the above equation does not include the plural "thrones" of the elders but it does include the singular "throne" of God leads us to the conclusion that it is this throne that is more important. 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Spiros

[WilliamL]

On 7/15/2023 at 3:07 AM, Diaste said:

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Actually, to my surprise when recently studying this passage, I discovered that all versions of the Greek texts do not have the final the: "the seven lampstands are seven churches" is the correct reading. 

Meaning that there are seven base church types, which at one time were personified in the seven Asian city churches, but were/are not confined to them.

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Actually, to my surprise when recently studying this passage, I discovered that all versions of the Greek texts do not have the final the: "the seven lampstands are seven churches" is the correct reading. 

Meaning that there are seven base church types, which at one time were personified in the seven Asian city churches, but were/are not confined to them.

That is interesting. 

[Uriah]

On 7/13/2023 at 11:42 AM, angels4u said:

ii. Therefore, redeemed, glorified man sits enthroned with Jesus. On lesser thrones, to be sure, but thrones none the less. We are joint heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), and we will reign with Him (2 Timothy 2:12)

Does this mean they already have their new, glorious bodies. When were they resurrected? How many resurrections are there?

 

On 7/13/2023 at 11:42 AM, angels4u said:

However, we never see angels crowned

Here is one...Rev. 123- And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

[FreeGrace]

On 12/1/2017 at 12:52 AM, missmuffet said:

They are the Church. Those who were raptured before the seven year tribulation.

There is no description of any believer being resurrected and then taken to heaven.  Rather, the Bible is clear that there will be ONE resurrection of ALL believers:  Dan 12;2, John 5:29, and Acts 24:15.  In 1 Cor 15:23, the ONE resurrection of ALL believers will be "when He comes" a clear reference to the Second Advent, which will occur at the end of the Tribulation.

And, Heb 9:28 says "so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."

This verse shows there are only TWO advents;  the first was "to take away the sins of many", He came as a human baby to become the Suffering Servant and to die for the sins of mankind.  The second will be the Second Advent.  That is when all believers will receive their resurrection body.