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Quasar93

What is the Day of the Lord?

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5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The second coming of Christ.

You do realize the phrase   " second coming of Christ "   appears nowhere in the bible .

And yet come He does . 

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1 minute ago, Unfailing Presence said:

You do realize the phrase   " second coming of Christ "   appears nowhere in the bible .

And yet come He does . 

You do realize the words "Holy Trinity" and rapture do not appear in the Bible but that is what the Bible teaches.

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20 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

You do realize the words "Holy Trinity" and rapture do not appear in the Bible but that is what the Bible teaches.

In addition the bible consistently refers to the " Day Of The Lord "  as the day the  Lord  , in person,  proactively executes  judgement & destruction upon all His enemies on earth .

That would most definitely include Satan's antichrist , his minions , and all other tribulation personal

There would be no tribulation going on .  Not  for even single day , post Day of The Lord , let alone for years since all Satan's people will have been vanquished .

There will be no enemies of the Lord around to run a tribulation when they Day of the Lord destroys them .

                                                 " Behold , the DAY OF THE LORD  cometh cruel both with wrath and fierce anger to lay the land desolate,

                                                     and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it . "

                                                      ( Isaiah 13 : 9 )

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On 12/11/2017 at 10:06 PM, Quasar93 said:

In all intelligent discussions of end-time events and the coming snatching away of believers (the rapture), the student of Bible prophecy faces the central question of : What is meant by the term, the Day of the Lord? This article is meant as an introductory discourse on that topic, to view the Day of the Lord from all sides and arrive at a conclusion based solely on the evidence presented in the Word of God, the Bible.

Many have proposed that the Day of the Lord is the entire 70th week of Daniel or the final 7 years until Shiloh (the Messiah) comes to establish the kingdom of God on the earth. Others have posited that the Day of the Lord is the millennial period or reign of the Messiah in Jerusalem. Outstanding teachers such as Hal Lindsey, have stated that although they believe that the Day of the Lord is the 7 year period, there is ample evidence that it is something else, and thus he concludes that they don't yet have sufficient understanding from God to know exactly the full meaning of the term. Finally, there are other noted teachers like Marvin Rosenthal, Robert Van Kampen and this author who have spent years studying the subject and believe that the Bible does show clearly that the Day of the Lord is a specified period of time within the 7 year end-times period, called the Wrath of God. Let us examine the evidence.

The Day of the Lord is tied together with the changing of believers in the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 to 5:1-10. Notice that those alive when Christ comes (4:13-18) shall be changed instantly into their immortal bodies when they are caught up to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (also 1 Corinthians 15:51-55). The text goes on in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, to say that believers are not to worry that the Day of the Lord has come like a thief and overtaken us, because believers are not in darkness, that the Day of the Lord should come upon us; and goes on to say that, "God has not destined us for wrath in the Day of the Lord, but for salvation."

Is the Day of the Lord the time of the wrath of God on the earth? It certainly is clear in Zephaniah 1:14-15
Near is the great Day of the Lord, near and coming quickly; listen, the Day of the Lord! In it the warrior cries out bitterly. A day of wrath is that day, a day of trouble and distress, a day of destruction and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness, a day of trumpet and battle cry ....

Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them on the Day of the Lord's wrath; and all the earth will be devoured in the fire of His jealousy, for He will make a complete end, indeed a terrifying one, of all the inhabitants of the earth.

The text from Zephaniah verifies that our understanding from 1 Thessalonians 4:13 to 5:10 is correct, namely, that the Day of the Lord is the period of God's wrath against the people of the earth. The text in Zephaniah disproves that the Day of the Lord is the millennium, since the millennial reign of Shiloh, the Messiah, will be a time of peace and prosperity for all the people of the earth, and the Zephaniah text states that the Day of the Lord is the time of God's wrath. Also note, that nothing in our study up until now prevents the pre-trib view from being correct, since the rapture precedes the time of wrath. However, is the Day of the Lord the entire 7 year period?

Let's take a look at another rapture text in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, where the Epistle was written again to warn the church not to believe that the Day of the Lord had come. Verse 1 states that the topic is the rapture or gathering of believers to Jesus at His coming. Verse 2 warns them not to be disturbed or deceived that the Day of the Lord had come. Verse 3 states, "Let no one deceive you for it (the Day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed." Verse 4 states that, "the man of lawlessness will be revealed by taking his seat in the Temple of God in Jerusalem and displaying himself as being God" (the abomination of desolation).

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, that you may not be quickly shaken or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the Day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Note that now we are getting further understanding with regards to the Day of the Lord. In both 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, the church is told specifically that the snatching away of the church in the rapture is before the Day of the Lord begins. Additionally, in 2 Thessalonians, we observe that two signs must take place before the Day of the Lord begins; the apostasy or falling away, and the revealing of the antichrist in the abomination of desolation in the Temple in Jerusalem. We also have that piece of the puzzle from Zephaniah which states that the Day of the Lord is the time of God's wrath.

Therefore, it is absolutely impossible according to the Word of God for the Day of the Lord to be the entire 7 year period, since it cannot begin, and we are warned not to be deceived about it beginning, until after the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 year period. Those who are teaching that the Day of the Lord is the entire 7 year period are wrong! We also know that the Day of the Lord cannot be the millennium, because that period is not the time of wrath, but the time when God spreads the tabernacle of peace over the earth and spears are beaten into plowshares and swords into pruning hooks.

When does the Day of the Lord begin and are there any signs? In the book of Joel, which is about the Great Tribulation period when the sacrifices and grain offerings are stopped in the Temple, we have the answer. Joel 2:31 states:
The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and awesome Day of the Lord comes.

The same statement reversed, is in Joel 3:14-15
For the Day of the Lord
is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon grow dark, and the stars lose their brightness.

What is this sign that the sun is turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the Day of the Lord comes?

It is clearly enunciated in Revelation 6 as the 6th seal signs. Rev 6:12-13
And I looked when He broke the 6th seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.

So the sign that the Day of the Lord is to begin, is after the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 year period, and after the 6th seal signs when the sun becomes black and the moon like blood. But is that the time when the wrath of God begins as we concluded earlier?

Yes it is. Take a look a few verses down in Revelation 6:16-17
...and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the
great day of their wrath has come; and who is able to stand?"

The obvious conclusion of those who accept the Bible as the Word of God is that the Day of the Lord starts in the latter half of the 7 year period, after the abomination of desolation; and that the Day of the Lord starts after an end-times apostasy. Also, the Day of the Lord starts after the 6th seal signs of the sun being turned into blackness and the moon into blood; and the Day of the Lord is the period of the wrath of God. These conclusions are incontrovertible, as long as you accept the Bible as truth. Therefore, all those teachings by others mentioned about the Day of the Lord, are in error, except as in agreement with our conclusions reached here.

OK you say, but if the Day of the Lord is the period of God's wrath that begins at the 6th seal signs, what do you call the period prior to the Day of the Lord? Good question. The first half of the 7 year period is shown to be called the Tribulation period in Matthew 24, while the 2nd half of the 7 year period up to the 6th seal signs is called in Matthew 24, the Great Tribulation. The Tribulation and Great Tribulation periods are the time of the wrath of man, where nations and governments will persecute the people. A time when Babylon the Great headed by the antichrist will gain control over the economy of the earth. Again, the Tribulation and Great Tribulation problems are caused by man against man and as a consequence of the actions of people, it is not the unique time of punishment from God called the wrath of God.

These results lead to many other conclusions. For instance, if the wrath of God starts after the 6th seal signs of the sun becoming black and the moon like blood, then the follow-on events called the 7 trumpet judgments and the 7 bowl judgments are the judgments of God. They are the means that He uses to pour out His wrath on the earth. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that if the 7th seal were the wrath of God, then the 7 seals would be called the seal judgments (which they are not).

by Roy A. Reinhold

Source{ http://ad2004.com/prophecytruths/Articles/Prophecy/DayofLord.htm

 

 

Quasar93

A sensible, thoughtful and cogent treatment of this topic. Hard to believe this guy holds some pretrib notions when he is as close to scripture as it appears. Couple of points stand out:

The first half of the week is not called 'tribulation'. Jesus calls this time of unrest, 'the beginning of sorrows', 'birth pains' or similar depending on the bible version, but never 'tribulation'. Calling the first half 'tribulation' is a misnomer and I'm not sure why this occurs when it's never referenced as such in scripture.

While it's true, as the author says, the Day of the Lord is a time period in the 2nd half, the Day of the Lord does not begin at the A of D. The Day of the Lord only begins after the sign of Jesus coming as stated by the author and proven in Rev 6. Matt 24 shows that sign only appears after 'great tribulation' some time after the A of D.

But mostly an excellent bit of research that should set a few things straight.

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7 hours ago, Diaste said:

A sensible, thoughtful and cogent treatment of this topic. Hard to believe this guy holds some pretrib notions when he is as close to scripture as it appears. Couple of points stand out:

The first half of the week is not called 'tribulation'. Jesus calls this time of unrest, 'the beginning of sorrows', 'birth pains' or similar depending on the bible version, but never 'tribulation'. Calling the first half 'tribulation' is a misnomer and I'm not sure why this occurs when it's never referenced as such in scripture.

While it's true, as the author says, the Day of the Lord is a time period in the 2nd half, the Day of the Lord does not begin at the A of D. The Day of the Lord only begins after the sign of Jesus coming as stated by the author and proven in Rev 6. Matt 24 shows that sign only appears after 'great tribulation' some time after the A of D.

But mostly an excellent bit of research that should set a few things straight.

As the translations of the KJV, ESV and NASB of Mt.24:21 reveal:

21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will."

 

Quasar93

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2 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

As the translations of the KJV, ESV and NASB of Mt.24:21 reveal:

21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will."

 

Quasar93

No clue what point you are making. Yes, there will be great tribulation, I agree.

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The first half of the week is not called 'tribulation'. Jesus calls this time of unrest, 'the beginning of sorrows', 'birth pains' or similar depending on the bible version, but never 'tribulation'. Calling the first half 'tribulation' is a misnomer and I'm not sure why this occurs when it's never referenced as such in scripture.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

No clue what point you are making. Yes, there will be great tribulation, I agree.

 

Quote by Diaste: >>>" The first half of the week is not called 'tribulation'. Jesus calls this time of unrest, 'the beginning of sorrows', 'birth pains' or similar depending on the bible version, but never 'tribulation'. Calling the first half 'tribulation' is a misnomer and I'm not sure why this occurs when it's never referenced as such in scripture."<<<

 

That's what it was about.  The 70th and final year of Daniel, is called the tribulation.  The final 3.5 years of it is called the Great Tribulation.

 

Quasar93

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4 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

The first half of the week is not called 'tribulation'. Jesus calls this time of unrest, 'the beginning of sorrows', 'birth pains' or similar depending on the bible version, but never 'tribulation'. Calling the first half 'tribulation' is a misnomer and I'm not sure why this occurs when it's never referenced as such in scripture.

 

Quote by Diaste: >>>" The first half of the week is not called 'tribulation'. Jesus calls this time of unrest, 'the beginning of sorrows', 'birth pains' or similar depending on the bible version, but never 'tribulation'. Calling the first half 'tribulation' is a misnomer and I'm not sure why this occurs when it's never referenced as such in scripture."<<<

 

That's what it was about.  The 70th and final year of Daniel, is called the tribulation.  The final 3.5 years of it is called the Great Tribulation.

 

Quasar93

It's only called 'tribulation' buy those with an agenda. That agenda demands a certain conclusion and so facts must be ignored or twisted. In this case it's a conflation of 'tribulation' 'great tribulation' 'Day of the Lord' and 'wrath of God'. All these have to be equivalent so that a pretrib rapture can be a viable doctrine as it lacks scriptural support. The following is the only possible order of the last week,  and none other:

 

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. (referencing verses 5-7)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (So those who do not endure to the end won't be saved, i.e., Pretrib)

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

You can say all you wish about this being for the Jews and not the church but this just shows the lack of real research in the pretrib camp. Pretrib does not, and cannot, account for all relevant passages concerning the end of the age, the 2nd coming, and the gathering of the elect. It's quite clear from the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Revelation that Jesus is very concerned for the churches. If, as you and others claim, that Jesus was only sent to the Jews, and the last week is only for the Jews, why then would Jesus spend 2 chapters in the defining book on the end of the age on the church? Many warnings to the church are contained in this as well as exhortations and encouragement, to wit:

 

 Ephesus 

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,

 

 Smyrna

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

 

 Pergamos

 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna,

Thyatira

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28 And I will give him the morning star.

 

 Sardis

I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

Philadelphia

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,

 

 Laodiceans write; 

I will spue thee out of my mouth.

thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,

As you can see, the CHURCH is called to overcome, repent, endure. Jesus says he rebukes and chastens those He loves, in the CHURCH. All the blessings are for the overcoming person in the CHURCH. Can't overcome if the CHURCH isn't here. Why the call to repent when the church isn't going to be here? Remember, this is all the last week, Rev 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

All that follows is the end of the age, and the church is in that time, till the end, called to overcome, repent, hold fast, wait. Can't do that is the church isn't here. Another common theme is the rewards enumerated in these two chapters given to those that overcome. What are you overcoming when you're not even there? Since the context is the end of the age, and the last week, the overcoming is going to be that of the last week and not the 'Church age'. Everything in Rev 2 and 3 is a specific warning for a specific time. 

Since this theme, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." is repeated many times throughout scripture we can only assume the CHURCH is going to get rebuked, chastened and cleansed, because Jesus Loves Us!!

If that isn't enough then listen to what Jesus says to Philadelphia, "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." I know this is touted as a Pretrib proof but a close examination shows this is not the case. The point is the hour of temptation, that you say the church will not endure, will try everyone on the earth. This hour is of course the fire of the beast. You say the church won't be here and this is only for the Jews. Well, you're wrong. The hour of temptation is going to try the WORLD. If you are wrong about this, what else is wrong with your doctrine?

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A search in the OT reveals, 19 out of 20 hits, the phrase DAY OF THE LORD, to be referring to the coming wrath of God, the one minority occurence in Jeremiah is not speaking eschatologically. Try it.

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You say the church won't be here and this is only for the Jews. Well, you're wrong. The hour of temptation is going to try the WORLD."

 

Those who belong to the Lord, both dead and alive, today will be made immortal just before the tribulation begins

Those who become believes during the tribulation is a different matter and these will either be killed or remain until the end

Those killed in the tribulation will be made immortal at the end of the period

Those who are alive will enter and populate His millennial kingdom upon the earth as mortals

 

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