What is the Day of the Lord?

[Quasar93]

13 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

" You say the church won't be here and this is only for the Jews. Well, you're wrong. The hour of temptation is going to try the WORLD."

 

Those who belong to the Lord, both dead and alive, today will be made immortal just before the tribulation begins

Those who become believes during the tribulation is a different matter and these will either be killed or remain until the end

Those killed in the tribulation will be made immortal at the end of the period

Those who are alive will enter and populate His millennial kingdom upon the earth as mortals

 

 

The teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, on the coming Pre-trib rapture of the Church is documented in the four post link below, that refute you:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/deeperwalk/the-biblical-teaching-of-the-pre-trib-rapture-of-t-t19401898.html

 

Quasar93

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

FYI, you have completely misrepresented what I wrote,that you quoted at the top of your post.  I wrote the following:

>>>"Quote by Diaste: >>>" The first half of the week is not called 'tribulation'. Jesus calls this time of unrest, 'the beginning of sorrows', 'birth pains' or similar depending on the bible version, but never 'tribulation'. Calling the first half 'tribulation' is a misnomer and I'm not sure why this occurs when it's never referenced as such in scripture."<<<

 

That's what it was about.  The 70th and final week/seven years of Daniel, is called the tribulation.  The final 3.5 years of it is called the Great Tribulation, the Day of the Lord.

 

Quasar93

 

Except for the fact Jesus does not call the first half of the week 'tribulation'. The time before the A of D is called 'the beginning of sorrows' by our Lord. That's not a misrepresentation, it's scriptural truth. Pretrib is the misrepresentation as it must twist the scriptures to attain it's own truth. Sure, it's a small detail, but it's the details that are important.

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Diaste

I believe the Lampstands and elders are two different entities.

What do lampstands do, they give out light.  So each lampstand was to be removed because those individuals of that Church ceased to give out light.  They went in  a different direction from which they were going when they first learned of the Good News.  Call it falling away if you want.  If one falls away, they need to repent.  If the salt has lost its savor, it will be tramped under foot, and is good for nothing.  When the whole 'church' is in sin, their hedge of protection will be removed.  Their light will be removed, because they no longer reflect the light.

One needs to look at some major christian ???? denominations.  Methodists, Some Presbyterians, Some Lutherans and others.  Since some of them accept homosexuality, abortion on demand, theory of evolution, etc., etc., etc.  What will God do to them?  Take their hedge of protection away, for they do not repent.  They no longer give out the true light of Christ.  They are no longer effective in giving out the Gospel.  God removes himself from them.  Their lampstand is now removed.  The Holy Spirit still indwells believers. When two or three believers are together, I am in their presence.  In essence, they may not true believers if they do not repent.  This has been going on for the 2,000 years of the Church age.  So what is new.  It happened in John's time, and it still happens in our time.  The seven letters to the seven Churches delves into how these Churches go astray.  It us information on what to look for in a dead church or an Active Church.

So when the Rapture does occurs, what happens to these lukewarm or dead churches, they reflect. They go nowhere, What went wrong.  Now they have a choice, do they what to follow the A/C and receive his mark and become condemned forever.  Or do they follow the straight and narrow and be severely treated, and thus, they cannot but or sell,  many will die, many will go into captivity and then die.  When the food supplies of the world are diminished, guess who will not get food rations, those saints during this 70th Week.  The Church of the Latter Day Saints, very devote in what they now believe, which is wrong.  They may be some of the first converts.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I don't think it's a matter of belief the lampstands and elders are different entities, it's written the lampstands are the churches, clearly different from the elders. The elders represent themselves as no word says the represent anything other than their own group.

I don't disagree with the above post but I do have a question:

Why must there be a Pretib rapture?

[Montana Marv]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Why must there be a Pretib rapture?

Why must there be a Rapture at all.  Scripture says there will be one.  The 70 Weeks is a prophecy all about Daniel's people (Israel).  It is about their timing in accepting the Messiah. And to date they (Israel) has not fulfilled this prophecy. Now during this Church Age, the Age of Grace individuals whether Jew or Gentile can or may accept the Gospel without ever seeing the Lord Jesus Christ, Salvation by faith.

The Rapture is an event which only the Father in Heaven knows its time.  If this is the case it cannot be found in Scripture which is (the Word, and Jesus is the Word), many tie the Rapture to many of the events in the final 7 Years.  Then people are able to project this event (Rapture) to under 7 years.  So now individuals have extra time to make a decision for Christ.  "Now is the time for Salvation" is now thrown out the window. 

For me a Pre-Trib Rapture is the only position which cannot be calculated.  It has been going on for 2,000 years.  It might extend for another 50 years.  But once the 7 year covenant is made, the clock ticks down to Armageddon and the Second Coming.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Diaste]

19 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Why must there be a Rapture at all.  Scripture says there will be one.  The 70 Weeks is a prophecy all about Daniel's people (Israel).  It is about their timing in accepting the Messiah. And to date they (Israel) has not fulfilled this prophecy. Now during this Church Age, the Age of Grace individuals whether Jew or Gentile can or may accept the Gospel without ever seeing the Lord Jesus Christ, Salvation by faith.

The Rapture is an event which only the Father in Heaven knows its time.  If this is the case it cannot be found in Scripture which is (the Word, and Jesus is the Word), many tie the Rapture to many of the events in the final 7 Years.  Then people are able to project this event (Rapture) to under 7 years.  So now individuals have extra time to make a decision for Christ.  "Now is the time for Salvation" is now thrown out the window. 

For me a Pre-Trib Rapture is the only position which cannot be calculated.  It has been going on for 2,000 years.  It might extend for another 50 years.  But once the 7 year covenant is made, the clock ticks down to Armageddon and the Second Coming.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I get that. Why a Pretrib catching away? How was it concluded this was the case?

[Quasar93]

On 12/16/2017 at 4:25 AM, Diaste said:

Except for the fact Jesus does not call the first half of the week 'tribulation'. The time before the A of D is called 'the beginning of sorrows' by our Lord. That's not a misrepresentation, it's scriptural truth. Pretrib is the misrepresentation as it must twist the scriptures to attain it's own truth. Sure, it's a small detail, but it's the details that are important.

 

When you post something representing it is a quote of mine, when in fact it is something you posted, it is a misrepresentation!  So don't try arguing out of it!  I showed you in a previous post where Jesus called His reference to Daniel, in Mt.24:15 -21 TRIBULATION, in the KJV, the NASB and then ESV translations.   Capiche?!

 

Quasar93

  s m

Edited December 17, 2017 by Quasar93

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

When you post something representing it is a quote of mine, when in fact it is something you posted, it is a misrepresentation!  So don't try arguing out of it!  I showed you in a previous post where Jesus called His reference to Daniel, in Mt.24:15 -21 TRIBULATION, in the KJV, the NASB and then ESV translations.   Xapiche?!

 

Quasar93

  s m

No you did not, and no, Jesus did not either. Observe;

 

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

For the moment setting aside the dire warning of 16-20 and just focusing on the order of events as spoken by Jesus the Lord we see it's clear 'great tribulation' follows the abomination of desolation. 

Jesus says, "...when you see the abomination of desolation...."  "...then shall be great tribulation..." This means 'great tribulation' follows the abomination of desolation, only! Before the abomination of desolation the days are not called 'tribulation', 'great tribulation' by Jesus or anyone else. In fact the text refutes the claim the whole of the last week is 'tribulation' as Jesus calls the days preceding the abomination of desolation, 'beginning of sorrows'.

The term 'great tribulation' is significant  as it is only used 3 times in the whole of canon:

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Revelation 2:22

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of greattribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So likening any old time period, any old thing, willy nilly, helter skelter thrashing about to prove false claims is just...well...sad.

 

[Quasar93]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

No you did not, and no, Jesus did not either. Observe;

 

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

For the moment setting aside the dire warning of 16-20 and just focusing on the order of events as spoken by Jesus the Lord we see it's clear 'great tribulation' follows the abomination of desolation. 

Jesus says, "...when you see the abomination of desolation...."  "...then shall be great tribulation..." This means 'great tribulation' follows the abomination of desolation, only! Before the abomination of desolation the days are not called 'tribulation', 'great tribulation' by Jesus or anyone else. In fact the text refutes the claim the whole of the last week is 'tribulation' as Jesus calls the days preceding the abomination of desolation, 'beginning of sorrows'.

The term 'great tribulation' is significant  as it is only used 3 times in the whole of canon:

Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Revelation 2:22

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of greattribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So likening any old time period, any old thing, willy nilly, helter skelter thrashing about to prove false claims is just...well...sad.

 

 

Your above opinions change nothing IU said previously in any way!

>>>When you post something representing it is a quote of mine, when in fact it is something you posted, it is a misrepresentation!  So don't try arguing out of it!  I showed you in a previous post where Jesus called His reference to Daniel, in Mt.24:15 -21 TRIBULATION, in the KJV, the NASB and then ESV translations.   Capiche?!<<<

 

Quasar93

Edited December 17, 2017 by Quasar93

[Daniel 11:36]

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Revelation 2:22

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of greattribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So likening any old time period, any old thing, willy nilly, helter skelter thrashing about to prove false claims is just...well...sad."

 

For then shall be great tribulation during the Lord's 70th week decreed for Israel [the day of the Lord and beyond]

These are they that came "away" from the great tribulation .... this is the better and correct translation

Revelation 7:1-8 are 1440000 mortal Israelites, and those of the Lord's immortals are noted in Revelation 7:9-17

 

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[iamlamad]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:06 PM, Quasar93 said:

In all intelligent discussions of end-time events and the coming snatching away of believers (the rapture), the student of Bible prophecy faces the central question of : What is meant by the term, the Day of the Lord? This article is meant as an introductory discourse on that topic, to view the Day of the Lord from all sides and arrive at a conclusion based solely on the evidence presented in the Word of God, the Bible.

Many have proposed that the Day of the Lord is the entire 70th week of Daniel or the final 7 years until Shiloh (the Messiah) comes to establish the kingdom of God on the earth. Others have posited that the Day of the Lord is the millennial period or reign of the Messiah in Jerusalem. Outstanding teachers such as Hal Lindsey, have stated that although they believe that the Day of the Lord is the 7 year period, there is ample evidence that it is something else, and thus he concludes that they don't yet have sufficient understanding from God to know exactly the full meaning of the term. Finally, there are other noted teachers like Marvin Rosenthal, Robert Van Kampen and this author who have spent years studying the subject and believe that the Bible does show clearly that the Day of the Lord is a specified period of time within the 7 year end-times period, called the Wrath of God. Let us examine the evidence.

The Day of the Lord is tied together with the changing of believers in the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 to 5:1-10. Notice that those alive when Christ comes (4:13-18) shall be changed instantly into their immortal bodies when they are caught up to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (also 1 Corinthians 15:51-55). The text goes on in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, to say that believers are not to worry that the Day of the Lord has come like a thief and overtaken us, because believers are not in darkness, that the Day of the Lord should come upon us; and goes on to say that, "God has not destined us for wrath in the Day of the Lord, but for salvation."

Is the Day of the Lord the time of the wrath of God on the earth? It certainly is clear in Zephaniah 1:14-15
Near is the great Day of the Lord, near and coming quickly; listen, the Day of the Lord! In it the warrior cries out bitterly. A day of wrath is that day, a day of trouble and distress, a day of destruction and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness, a day of trumpet and battle cry ....

Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them on the Day of the Lord's wrath; and all the earth will be devoured in the fire of His jealousy, for He will make a complete end, indeed a terrifying one, of all the inhabitants of the earth.

The text from Zephaniah verifies that our understanding from 1 Thessalonians 4:13 to 5:10 is correct, namely, that the Day of the Lord is the period of God's wrath against the people of the earth. The text in Zephaniah disproves that the Day of the Lord is the millennium, since the millennial reign of Shiloh, the Messiah, will be a time of peace and prosperity for all the people of the earth, and the Zephaniah text states that the Day of the Lord is the time of God's wrath. Also note, that nothing in our study up until now prevents the pre-trib view from being correct, since the rapture precedes the time of wrath. However, is the Day of the Lord the entire 7 year period?

Let's take a look at another rapture text in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, where the Epistle was written again to warn the church not to believe that the Day of the Lord had come. Verse 1 states that the topic is the rapture or gathering of believers to Jesus at His coming. Verse 2 warns them not to be disturbed or deceived that the Day of the Lord had come. Verse 3 states, "Let no one deceive you for it (the Day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed." Verse 4 states that, "the man of lawlessness will be revealed by taking his seat in the Temple of God in Jerusalem and displaying himself as being God" (the abomination of desolation).

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, that you may not be quickly shaken or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the Day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Note that now we are getting further understanding with regards to the Day of the Lord. In both 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, the church is told specifically that the snatching away of the church in the rapture is before the Day of the Lord begins. Additionally, in 2 Thessalonians, we observe that two signs must take place before the Day of the Lord begins; the apostasy or falling away, and the revealing of the antichrist in the abomination of desolation in the Temple in Jerusalem. We also have that piece of the puzzle from Zephaniah which states that the Day of the Lord is the time of God's wrath.

Therefore, it is absolutely impossible according to the Word of God for the Day of the Lord to be the entire 7 year period, since it cannot begin, and we are warned not to be deceived about it beginning, until after the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 year period. Those who are teaching that the Day of the Lord is the entire 7 year period are wrong! We also know that the Day of the Lord cannot be the millennium, because that period is not the time of wrath, but the time when God spreads the tabernacle of peace over the earth and spears are beaten into plowshares and swords into pruning hooks.

When does the Day of the Lord begin and are there any signs? In the book of Joel, which is about the Great Tribulation period when the sacrifices and grain offerings are stopped in the Temple, we have the answer. Joel 2:31 states:
The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and awesome Day of the Lord comes.

The same statement reversed, is in Joel 3:14-15
For the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon grow dark, and the stars lose their brightness.

What is this sign that the sun is turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the Day of the Lord comes?

It is clearly enunciated in Revelation 6 as the 6th seal signs. Rev 6:12-13
And I looked when He broke the 6th seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.

So the sign that the Day of the Lord is to begin, is after the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 year period, and after the 6th seal signs when the sun becomes black and the moon like blood. But is that the time when the wrath of God begins as we concluded earlier?

Yes it is. Take a look a few verses down in Revelation 6:16-17
...and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come; and who is able to stand?"

The obvious conclusion of those who accept the Bible as the Word of God is that the Day of the Lord starts in the latter half of the 7 year period, after the abomination of desolation; and that the Day of the Lord starts after an end-times apostasy. Also, the Day of the Lord starts after the 6th seal signs of the sun being turned into blackness and the moon into blood; and the Day of the Lord is the period of the wrath of God. These conclusions are incontrovertible, as long as you accept the Bible as truth. Therefore, all those teachings by others mentioned about the Day of the Lord, are in error, except as in agreement with our conclusions reached here.

OK you say, but if the Day of the Lord is the period of God's wrath that begins at the 6th seal signs, what do you call the period prior to the Day of the Lord? Good question. The first half of the 7 year period is shown to be called the Tribulation period in Matthew 24, while the 2nd half of the 7 year period up to the 6th seal signs is called in Matthew 24, the Great Tribulation. The Tribulation and Great Tribulation periods are the time of the wrath of man, where nations and governments will persecute the people. A time when Babylon the Great headed by the antichrist will gain control over the economy of the earth. Again, the Tribulation and Great Tribulation problems are caused by man against man and as a consequence of the actions of people, it is not the unique time of punishment from God called the wrath of God.

These results lead to many other conclusions. For instance, if the wrath of God starts after the 6th seal signs of the sun becoming black and the moon like blood, then the follow-on events called the 7 trumpet judgments and the 7 bowl judgments are the judgments of God. They are the means that He uses to pour out His wrath on the earth. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that if the 7th seal were the wrath of God, then the 7 seals would be called the seal judgments (which they are not).

by Roy A. Reinhold

Source{ http://ad2004.com/prophecytruths/Articles/Prophecy/DayofLord.htm

 

 

Quasar93

You are mistaken. Paul's argument was how someone could know when they are IN the day of the Lord: in other words, it has previously started and they are IN it. (Greek tenses) His argument then is that if someone sees the abomination, then they can KNOW with no doubt, they are INSIDE the day of the Lord and it has previously started. And for "apostasia" Paul did not mean a "falling away" but a departing." In context that departing can be nothing other than the departure of the church as in the rapture.

Let's just take John word for it and believe that "the DAY" begins at the 6th seal earthquake. It is the start of the Day of His wrath, and the departure of the church MUST COME before that earthquake. Moreover, Paul's "apostasia" must be the one restraining taken out of the way: it can be nothing else, for in verse 3B the man of sin IS REVEALED and in verses 6-8 he cannot be until the one restraining has been taken out of the way.