Unfruitful Christians

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

8 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Also Jesus prophesying about the destruction of the "temple" that not one stone would be left on top of another.

And to add that Jesus said the temple from now on would be Himself... Then when we see people saying: "You are in the right Church, this is His temple"... Wake up, wake up!

"“We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’”" - Mark 14:58

 

The temple is Himself, is He who will answer your prayer and forgive you... If you simply humble yourself, cry, repent, and ask (from anywhere).

"if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways,
then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land." - 2 Chronicles 7:14

 

This simply kills the idea that the Catholic Church is of any relevance. If they claim: "We are THE CHURCH, THE WAY!". This alone is a red, red flag alert.

"For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." - Matthew 24:5

 

The truth is: You can be at any Church, but if the Lord Jesus is not in you then you are not His.

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." - Romans 8:9

 

Glory to God! Amen.

Edited February 2, 2018 by 4LdKHVCzRDj2

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Have you considered this?  Salvation and truth is for the individual.  Each of us has to make a decision to accept the truth or reject the truth.  The strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2 is for the individual, the individual who has not received the truth.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?  And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.  The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,  comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

This warning is about the individual.  The individual, when gathered with believers, is the body of Christ and called the church.  To place what is meant for an individual onto a body is incorrect and mishandling the message.  You notice that this warning is not stated for a body of believers, but for anyone who rejected the truth, the individual.  "Them" are those who reject the truth.   Those who reject the truth may be found in every collective body of Christ.  Though you may address the whole body with the message for all to hear, the condemnation that comes as a delusion is to the individual, the ones who reject the truth, not the whole body.  Claiming the "whole church in general.....except for a remnant" will receive the delusion is incorrect. 

Let's make this simple.  Let's say there are 10 churches.  Within each church are 10 members.  In one church, 1 member rejects the truth.  In another 2, the next 3, then 4 and so on until you do have the last church where all 10 reject the truth and are following a false doctrine not from God.  How then can you condemn the church when it is the individuals themselves who are receiving the delusion?

I also want to add that when you read the scripture provided. those who follow the delusion are the lost, those who have not been saved.  Yes, they are currently found within the numbers of the church, which is why the church will see a falling away.  As His time draws near, those who have yet not received the truth onto salvation will be leaving the church numbers to follow a lie.  It is not the church itself, but those within the numbers that reject Christ.  The church is His true believers.  There can be none other counted in the number of believers but believers.  Today, you will find tares among the wheat.  Soon, the tares will scatter and what is left is only the wheat.

We would need to explain how the coming of the Lord is just for individuals and not a collective Bride, and how the son of perdition being revealed and sitting in the temple of God showing himself to be God.. pertains just to the individual....... and how the falling away pertains only to individuals........scriptures reveal that He deals with individuals as well as His church corporately......for example, Israel being ensample to the church......remember Shiloh, when the glory departed the whole nation.....Ichabod......yes, sadly that is happening to the church too.  We must not think the Lord would not allow that to happen to His church corporately......if He allowed it to happen to Israel where He had chosen to dwell, and we know He is no respecter of persons, then we should not be too surprised that He would allow destruction and captivity to His new testament temple/church as well, when she falls away and is judged.  Judgment BEGINS with His house.  He judged Egypt collectively, He judged Sodom collectively and He judged Jerusalem collectively.....it is very simply shown in the bible.  Though I dont' at all disagree that a lot of what applies in scripture corporately can also be applied and be speaking to the individual believer, AS WELL.  So if anyone hears the call, to come out of her so you don't receive of her plagues.......don't be surprised.......obey.

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

Have you considered this?  Salvation and truth is for the individual.  Each of us has to make a decision to accept the truth or reject the truth.  The strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2 is for the individual, the individual who has not received the truth.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?  And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.  The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,  comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

This warning is about the individual.  The individual, when gathered with believers, is the body of Christ and called the church.  To place what is meant for an individual onto a body is incorrect and mishandling the message.  You notice that this warning is not stated for a body of believers, but for anyone who rejected the truth, the individual.  "Them" are those who reject the truth.   Those who reject the truth may be found in every collective body of Christ.  Though you may address the whole body with the message for all to hear, the condemnation that comes as a delusion is to the individual, the ones who reject the truth, not the whole body.  Claiming the "whole church in general.....except for a remnant" will receive the delusion is incorrect. 

Let's make this simple.  Let's say there are 10 churches.  Within each church are 10 members.  In one church, 1 member rejects the truth.  In another 2, the next 3, then 4 and so on until you do have the last church where all 10 reject the truth and are following a false doctrine not from God.  How then can you condemn the church when it is the individuals themselves who are receiving the delusion?

I also want to add that when you read the scripture provided. those who follow the delusion are the lost, those who have not been saved.  Yes, they are currently found within the numbers of the church, which is why the church will see a falling away.  As His time draws near, those who have yet not received the truth onto salvation will be leaving the church numbers to follow a lie.  It is not the church itself, but those within the numbers that reject Christ.  The church is His true believers.  There can be none other counted in the number of believers but believers.  Today, you will find tares among the wheat.  Soon, the tares will scatter and what is left is only the wheat.

Both the pattern of the prophets and Christ warned the people in general when it came to the religious institution.

Their were even some Pharisees that believed on JESUS.  few,     But HE was warning to all people not to be as Them.

I bet nicodemus  was not confused about that .    The warnings are about the overall conditions of what many churches have made Christianity into today.

I know what you saying , the true church IS the church and yes their are tares about every where very true .

Those sitting in Christ following churches wont be confused when some of us warn out about the general condition of churches

in fact those leaders in the Christ following Churches do the same thing .

When God sent jeremiah to warn,  HE warned ALL ,    did this mean every single one was evil , nope cause GOD still had a remnant .

BUT he warned ALL.  To warn that churches are in dire straits is not erroneous , its the pattern.    The true beleivers in those places

will know .    Theirs babes ,  those babes are starving to death in those  churches,   as their pastors feed the group what the tares want to hear

THE SHEEP GO HUNGRY or leave .   Not to mention a heavey delusion is rising as we speak, as YOU even know .

THEREFORE my advice is,    IF the leaders wont hear correction , GET OUT and ner look back.   COME YE OUT OF HER .

Most churches, but not all, but most follow unbiblical patterns that Contradict JESUS pattern.   

Everyone here should know this too,     Their will be errors in any church you go into ,

people will need correcting .   BUT IF THE LEADERSHIP ERRS , wont repent and teaches error.  GET OUT that church IS DOOMED .

For whom one sits under will be where one ends up.    Feed from goats chow , you become a goat .   Lambs eat pure grade  A JESUS SAYING CHOW.

THE DOCTRINE .  ITS THE DOCTRINE that I speak of .     And here is another fact.   IF them leaders don't know the simplicity oF JESUS

like a mere wee thing like me does , but teaches error and mens doctrines  GET OUT , cause any leader should WELLL BE MATURE.

They should have made the focus on the inner man,  on sound doctrine , instead of working on the outer man and jelling hair and dressing fancy

and cool,    to win souls or seem as men of love .    Those poor children in most churches , sitting under many men who LOOK cool as all get out

can quaote the lastest video game to a kid,    But don't know a THING bout JESUS nor his pattern.

And no this aint about clothes or how they sing n church.     Its about the LACK OF SOUND DOCTRINE , the lack of JESUS pattern and the pattern

set by the apostles n all thing NOT GETTING done and not only that , being spoken contrary too.

How many churches alone sit under WOMEN pastors,  How many sit under men who will remarry people no matter IF its contrary to the pattern JESUS said about remarriage.

How many support war,    support gay marriage or abortion .   IF THE LEADERSHIP allows this, THEN THEY AINT NO LEADERSHIP

I will sit with and hug and act like all is well   LEADERS ,   those , LEADERS NEED TO BE EXAMPLES , as does the whole church

But the leaders are to set the example FOR the CHURCH and its supposed to be the example men like james paul set

WHO followed the pattern,  JESUS SET .

[frienduff thaylorde]

19 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

We would need to explain how the coming of the Lord is just for individuals and not a collective Bride, and how the son of perdition being revealed and sitting in the temple of God showing himself to be God.. pertains just to the individual....... and how the falling away pertains only to individuals........scriptures reveal that He deals with individuals as well as His church corporately......for example, Israel being ensample to the church......remember Shiloh, when the glory departed the whole nation.....Ichabod......yes, sadly that is happening to the church too.  We must not think the Lord would not allow that to happen to His church corporately......if He allowed it to happen to Israel where He had chosen to dwell, and we know He is no respecter of persons, then we should not be too surprised that He would allow destruction and captivity to His new testament temple/church as well, when she falls away and is judged.  Judgment BEGINS with His house.  He judged Egypt collectively, He judged Sodom collectively and He judged Jerusalem collectively.....it is very simply shown in the bible.  Though I dont' at all disagree that a lot of what applies in scripture corporately can also be applied and be speaking to the individual believer, AS WELL.  So if anyone hears the call, to come out of her so you don't receive of her plagues.......don't be surprised.......obey.

We would need to explain how the coming of the Lord is just for individuals and not a collective Bride

Change that .    We sure can tell how the coming of the LORD is FOR the colletive bride .  paul did .   He told churches this.

What you should say is we should warn just cause you sitting in a church don't make you saved .  

[OneLight]

34 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

We would need to explain how the coming of the Lord is just for individuals and not a collective Bride, and how the son of perdition being revealed and sitting in the temple of God showing himself to be God.. pertains just to the individual....... and how the falling away pertains only to individuals........scriptures reveal that He deals with individuals as well as His church corporately......for example, Israel being ensample to the church......remember Shiloh, when the glory departed the whole nation.....Ichabod......yes, sadly that is happening to the church too.  We must not think the Lord would not allow that to happen to His church corporately......if He allowed it to happen to Israel where He had chosen to dwell, and we know He is no respecter of persons, then we should not be too surprised that He would allow destruction and captivity to His new testament temple/church as well, when she falls away and is judged.  Judgment BEGINS with His house.  He judged Egypt collectively, He judged Sodom collectively and He judged Jerusalem collectively.....it is very simply shown in the bible.  Though I dont' at all disagree that a lot of what applies in scripture corporately can also be applied and be speaking to the individual believer, AS WELL.  So if anyone hears the call, to come out of her so you don't receive of her plagues.......don't be surprised.......obey.

When the Lord returns for His Bride, the Bride will include individual believers who became part of His Bride, those who personally accepted salvation.  It is both individually and collective, as the collective Bride consists of individual believers.  I don't see the conflict.

As for the deception brought forth by the Son of Perdition, if you look at verses below and see that it is not speaking about the Bride or the Church, but the individuals who rejected salvation:

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

You see, when we use the terminology "Bride" or "Church", we are speaking about the collective body of those who accepted Christ.  In the passage above, the terminology "they" is the collective term of those who rejected salvation through Christ Jesus.  In each case, each collective is made up from individuals who made a decision one way or the other.

God will not discard His true followers because of a few in their numbers who are the chaff, the tares.  That is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  To rightly divide scripture is very important.  God does address collective bodies, and He also addresses each of us individually.  In this case, the collective terminology is being used, those who make up the collective bodies are individuals; therefore, the delusion is to the individual who rejected salvation, not the church in whole.

[Heleadethme]

51 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

We sure can tell how the coming of the LORD is FOR the colletive bride .

Amen....that was my point too.

[OneLight]

58 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Both the pattern of the prophets and Christ warned the people in general when it came to the religious institution.

Their were even some Pharisees that believed on JESUS.  few,     But HE was warning to all people not to be as Them.

I bet nicodemus  was not confused about that .    The warnings are about the overall conditions of what many churches have made Christianity into today.

I know what you saying , the true church IS the church and yes their are tares about every where very true .

Those sitting in Christ following churches wont be confused when some of us warn out about the general condition of churches

in fact those leaders in the Christ following Churches do the same thing .

When God sent jeremiah to warn,  HE warned ALL ,    did this mean every single one was evil , nope cause GOD still had a remnant .

BUT he warned ALL.  To warn that churches are in dire straits is not erroneous , its the pattern.    The true beleivers in those places

will know .    Theirs babes ,  those babes are starving to death in those  churches,   as their pastors feed the group what the tares want to hear

THE SHEEP GO HUNGRY or leave .   Not to mention a heavey delusion is rising as we speak, as YOU even know .

THEREFORE my advice is,    IF the leaders wont hear correction , GET OUT and ner look back.   COME YE OUT OF HER .

Most churches, but not all, but most follow unbiblical patterns that Contradict JESUS pattern.   

Everyone here should know this too,     Their will be errors in any church you go into ,

people will need correcting .   BUT IF THE LEADERSHIP ERRS , wont repent and teaches error.  GET OUT that church IS DOOMED .

For whom one sits under will be where one ends up.    Feed from goats chow , you become a goat .   Lambs eat pure grade  A JESUS SAYING CHOW.

THE DOCTRINE .  ITS THE DOCTRINE that I speak of .     And here is another fact.   IF them leaders don't know the simplicity oF JESUS

like a mere wee thing like me does , but teaches error and mens doctrines  GET OUT , cause any leader should WELLL BE MATURE.

They should have made the focus on the inner man,  on sound doctrine , instead of working on the outer man and jelling hair and dressing fancy

and cool,    to win souls or seem as men of love .    Those poor children in most churches , sitting under many men who LOOK cool as all get out

can quaote the lastest video game to a kid,    But don't know a THING bout JESUS nor his pattern.

And no this aint about clothes or how they sing n church.     Its about the LACK OF SOUND DOCTRINE , the lack of JESUS pattern and the pattern

set by the apostles n all thing NOT GETTING done and not only that , being spoken contrary too.

How many churches alone sit under WOMEN pastors,  How many sit under men who will remarry people no matter IF its contrary to the pattern JESUS said about remarriage.

How many support war,    support gay marriage or abortion .   IF THE LEADERSHIP allows this, THEN THEY AINT NO LEADERSHIP

I will sit with and hug and act like all is well   LEADERS ,   those , LEADERS NEED TO BE EXAMPLES , as does the whole church

But the leaders are to set the example FOR the CHURCH and its supposed to be the example men like james paul set

WHO followed the pattern,  JESUS SET .

The warning went out to all who would hear, but tell us, was it collectively accepted or individually accepted?  It is one thing to warn everyone, yet another to condemn everyone.

Tell me this, in 2 Thessalonians 2:10, who are the "those" and "they"?  Are they just a group of people who had nothing to do with the selection and was just placed in a group at random, or was the selection of these groups due to an individual choice they did or did not make?

[Heleadethme]

22 minutes ago, OneLight said:

God will not discard His true followers because of a few in their numbers who are the chaff, the tares.

No, He will not discard His true followers......He will lead them out like the faithful Shepherd that He is.  Looks like that means we are in days of wheat and tares being separated.

 

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Both the pattern of the prophets and Christ warned the people in general when it came to the religious institution.

Their were even some Pharisees that believed on JESUS.  few,     But HE was warning to all people not to be as Them.

I bet nicodemus  was not confused about that .    The warnings are about the overall conditions of what many churches have made Christianity into today.

I know what you saying , the true church IS the church and yes their are tares about every where very true .

Those sitting in Christ following churches wont be confused when some of us warn out about the general condition of churches

in fact those leaders in the Christ following Churches do the same thing .

When God sent jeremiah to warn,  HE warned ALL ,    did this mean every single one was evil , nope cause GOD still had a remnant .

BUT he warned ALL.  To warn that churches are in dire straits is not erroneous , its the pattern.    The true beleivers in those places

will know .    Theirs babes ,  those babes are starving to death in those  churches,   as their pastors feed the group what the tares want to hear

THE SHEEP GO HUNGRY or leave .   Not to mention a heavey delusion is rising as we speak, as YOU even know .

THEREFORE my advice is,    IF the leaders wont hear correction , GET OUT and ner look back.   COME YE OUT OF HER .

Most churches, but not all, but most follow unbiblical patterns that Contradict JESUS pattern.   

Everyone here should know this too,     Their will be errors in any church you go into ,

people will need correcting .   BUT IF THE LEADERSHIP ERRS , wont repent and teaches error.  GET OUT that church IS DOOMED .

For whom one sits under will be where one ends up.    Feed from goats chow , you become a goat .   Lambs eat pure grade  A JESUS SAYING CHOW.

THE DOCTRINE .  ITS THE DOCTRINE that I speak of .     And here is another fact.   IF them leaders don't know the simplicity oF JESUS

like a mere wee thing like me does , but teaches error and mens doctrines  GET OUT , cause any leader should WELLL BE MATURE.

They should have made the focus on the inner man,  on sound doctrine , instead of working on the outer man and jelling hair and dressing fancy

and cool,    to win souls or seem as men of love .    Those poor children in most churches , sitting under many men who LOOK cool as all get out

can quaote the lastest video game to a kid,    But don't know a THING bout JESUS nor his pattern.

And no this aint about clothes or how they sing n church.     Its about the LACK OF SOUND DOCTRINE , the lack of JESUS pattern and the pattern

set by the apostles n all thing NOT GETTING done and not only that , being spoken contrary too.

How many churches alone sit under WOMEN pastors,  How many sit under men who will remarry people no matter IF its contrary to the pattern JESUS said about remarriage.

How many support war,    support gay marriage or abortion .   IF THE LEADERSHIP allows this, THEN THEY AINT NO LEADERSHIP

I will sit with and hug and act like all is well   LEADERS ,   those , LEADERS NEED TO BE EXAMPLES , as does the whole church

But the leaders are to set the example FOR the CHURCH and its supposed to be the example men like james paul set

WHO followed the pattern,  JESUS SET .

Praise the Lord......that is well said and rightly divided truth.  Clear as crystal...i can hear the "ping".  Thanks brother.

[Heleadethme]

7 minutes ago, OneLight said:

The warning went out to all who would hear, but tell us, was it collectively accepted or individually accepted?  It is one thing to warn everyone, yet another to condemn everyone.

Tell me this, in 2 Thessalonians 2:10, who are the "those" and "they"?  Are they just a group of people who had nothing to do with the selection and was just placed in a group at random, or was the selection of these groups due to an individual choice they did or did not make?

No one is condemning anyone, not the corporate church, nor individually.......just calling it what it is, is all.  Oh, DO read frienduff's post again, prayerfully, take your time, and just love the truth, it's a gem of clarification and to God be the glory.