KiwiChristian Posted February 21, 2018 Group: Members * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 176 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 870 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/23/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/22/1968 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Badjao33 said: What is the penalty for apostasy under islamic law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Davida said: Funny how none of our mission couples who are working in Muslim countries to spread the Gospel spend their time defending Islamic doctrines. Same here. I have known a few missionaries to Islamic countries and their explanations of Islamic laws and the threats that missionaries face, which include imprisonment and torture are bone chilling. And that is in "moderate" Muslim nations. None of them ever tried to sing people to sleep about how misunderstood Muslims are. The "peaceful" Muslim Palestinians in Gaza during their 2006 elections, elected Hamas by a landslide. There were other less violent candidates for Palestinian government. But the people (not the terrorists) chose a terrorist group that ran on a campaign platform like something out of Mein Kampf to be their representative, democratically elected government. When given the choice, the "peaceful" Muslims voted for violence, death and bloodshed. Not too much to "misunderstand" about that. Suicide bombs and driving cars into crowds, knifing people in the streets, murdering journalists for drawing cartoons about Mohammed, calling the US the "great Satan," calling for the destruction of Israel, murdering any Muslim that converts to Christianity, are not "misunderstood." I have a real problem with this line of argumentation that tries to shield Islam and Muslims from any and all criticism. That is what the Muslims always strive for. They want to make any criticism of Islam a hate crime. I would argue against Badjao, that it is Islam, not Christians, that has the image problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: Keep in mind those are laws implemented by the governments of those countries. They are political and while based on religion, they are not "Islamic laws", they are state laws. It's much the same as when the United States had laws that protected slave owners for example and politicians used the Bible to justify their positions. No, it's not the same. And everyone knows that Muslims don't have a separation of religion state. They are one and the same. So yes, the laws are Islamic. Quote Who is trying to do that? You, and your Islamic allies. Quote Who want's to do this and where? https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/261268/house-democrats-move-criminalize-criticism-islam-robert-spencer http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/82326-un-wants-make-criticism-islam.html Quote This is an unfair statement. No, it is actually the truth. CNN, CBS and every news agency out there in 2006 called it a landslide victory. http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/26/palestinian.election.1604/index.html https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/hamas-wins-election/4/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012600372.html http://archive.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/01/26/hamas_wins_landslide_76_seats_in_parliament/ http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13331522 https://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/01/hamas-76-seats-fatah-43 Quote What you are doing is the same as judging all Americans by the most recent election of Donald Trump as President. President Trump won with just 26% of the vote from eligible voters which means that the remaining 74% of Americans either voted for another candidate or did not vote at all. No, that is not what I am doing. Everyone said it was a landslide and you're the only one, so far trying to monkey around with numbers to say it wasn't. Quote So just as President Trump being elected as president does not represent the views of the majority of Americans, neither does Hamas winning the election in 2006 represent the views of the majority of Palestinians. Nope, one is not analogous to the other. Quote And these actions are being committed by less than 0.01% of people proclaiming to be Muslims and you think it is fair to judge the majority of Muslims by the actions of a few? I am not judging it by the actions of a "few." I am judging Islam by the actions of a few, but on the majority that supports, bankrolls, and inspires the actions of "the few." You know, 0.01% looks pretty small. But even if the number is 0.01% (and I doubt the number is really that small), that is still some 100,000 terrorists. Imagine if that 0.01% decided to unleash their terror in the US? But when you consider just how many Islamic terrorists there are, 0.01% is a contrived number you made up and not the actual number. Quote In America, there have been several recent mass shootings by gun owners who purchased them legally. Does than mean that the majority of legal gun owners in the US are mass murderers? Or that they condone such evil acts? Of course not. That is not analogous since we don't find legal gun owners doing anything but voicing their disgust at what these criminals do. They don't open up charities for those criminals, they don't try to tell everyone that they are simply misunderstood, or call them martyrs, or name streets after them. They don't praise those criminals the way the Muslims praise and honor those who die as "martyrs" by blowing themselves up and killing innocent children. Legal gun owners don't inspire those activities and don't tell their wives that the most honorable thing they can do is give birth to a martyr who will shoot up high schools. So, the comparison really fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 21, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,129 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Badjao33 said: There is no penalty for apostasy in Islam. There are, however, a few Islamic states that classify apostasy as treason, so there are laws against it in those countries. Just like in the US where the death penalty can be given for those who commit treason, the same is done in some Islamic countries for apostasy. In those cases it's more of a political apostasy rather than a religious apostasy. that is simply not true in most cases Badjao.... While in Mecca Mohammad taught and wrote that there was freedom in one's religion, but things changed once he went to Medina and built an army. In the Hadiths he very plainly states that a person who changes his/her religion is to be put to death..... and history shows that is exactly what he did. You are spreading the invasion lies that Islam tells as they move into a new place in order to be accepted long enough to build their strength to take over as they are doing in the West. Already places in Europe are experiencing this. If one only cherry picks the Koran, one can make it say just about anything for there are many contradictions and one needs to understand which part came first to understand the last over rides the first..... but the Hadiths which are taught as nearly as authorities as the Koran itself plainly states that apostates are worse than infidels and should be put to death..... Reading your posts here is like going to a jihadi website and reading in English and then translating the other half the site that is in Arabic.... If people listen to you and take it in for a good length of time they will face the decision of butts up or heads off..... and you shouldn't be allowed to say the things you are saying without being rebuked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 21, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,129 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2018 Badjao, you are putting yourself in a position of being an enemy of the State by covering the Civilization Jihad that is being carried out here in the US... The Muslim Brotherhood has documented it and was entered into the Holy Land trial and is court record documented. They were also listed as unindicted co-conspirators in the Trial and subsequently lost later court request to be removed from that list. In case you doubt that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: That is an opinion not based on facts. No, it is a fact. It's why the US military is considered by them as the "Crusader army." It's why they see the US government as "Christian." You might be able to lie to others, but not to me. Quote The first link goes to an unreliable source. No, it doesn't. It is actually a very reliable and accurate source. You don't like it because it exposes Islam for what it really is, but it is quite reliable. Quote They worded the story to make it sound like the bill was to ban criticism of Islam. It does no such thing and can be found at this link: H.Res.569 - Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-resolution/569/text The example in the second link was a non-binding resolution that protected Christianity, Islam, and Judaism from defamation. Once again, it was not a call to criminalize criticism of Islam Until Islam decided to rear its ugly head in our nation, we never had to have these kinds of bills. Sure, they had to make it appear to be protecting all religions, but that was never necessary until now. People of other faiths were free to criticize and mock other religions without having to have a bill to this end. Islam is a poison pill everywhere it shows up. Muslims are more trouble than they're worth. And a bill is not a non-binding resolution. It is a bill that will is intended to eventually be signed into law. Quote That doesn't mean that the majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas. It was a landslide because Hamas won the most seats in Parliament. In the United States the Republican party controls the White House, Senate, and the Congress, yet most Americans are not Republicans, and most Americans did not vote for Republican candidates. The number of votes cast one way or the other determines popular support in an election. Hamas did not have popular support in Palestine just as President Trump did not have popular support in the United States, yet they both on the elections. Neither represent the views of the majority of the population in either case. I said it was a landslide, everyone else says it was a landslide. The Palestinians voted in Hamas, it is that simple. They didn't elected by accident. You don't get landslides by being voted in by the minority. And now the Palestinians have the government they want. It's a terrorist government, but that is what they wanted. Quote That 0.01% number is the one recognized by the US state Department and can be verified at this site: http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/ That still doesn't count as a "few" and the US government skews numbers when it needs to. Given the number of terrorist organizations there are in the middle east, that number is likely pretty inaccurate and the number is much higher. Quote You mean just like Muslims around the world do when someone uses their religion as an excuse to commit an evil act? Actually, they don't. It has been noticed by a number of news outlets, bloggers and others that Islam really does nothing to reign in terrorist organizations. Muslims are pretty much dead silent except for a precious few when it comes to condemning terrorists. I remember when Yasir Arafat was forced into an insincere left-handed condemnation of "violence on both sides" without having to actually condemn PLO terror. They make some statement in front western cameras and then in private they laugh at the stupidity and gullibility of west. Quote The above is just a collection of nonsense found on anti-Islamic hate sites. It in no way represents the vast majority of people in the world who follow Islam. It's not nonsense at all. You're just propaganda machine for the Muslims, and that is pretty much it. I am not the only one who finding you to be putting out wrong info and misleading propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: I'm playing the role of peacemaker here and trying to dispel some of the falsehoods about a large number of our neighbors who we should be showing love and kindness to rather than fear and anger. No, you're playing the role of Muslim propagandist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 21, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,129 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: Can you provide links to the hadiths that states that a person who changes his religion is to be put to death? Not a link to a website that has an anti-Islamic agenda, but the hadiths themselves without commentary. Both the Qur'an and the hadiths are clear that the punishment for Apostasy lies in the hand of Allah, since he is the one the offence was committed against. Apostasy which is not aggravated by some other crime such as treason is not punishable in Islam. How else can I point out errors if I don't provide actual texts and commentary to back it up? I can say anything I want about a subject, but without a source, it means very little. I'm playing the role of peacemaker here and trying to dispel some of the falsehoods about a large number of our neighbors who we should be showing love and kindness to rather than fear and anger. Quote Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn `Abbas, who said, “Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ “ Sahih al-Bukhari 3017 Vol. 4, Book 52, Hadith 260 Quote Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.” Sahih al-Bukhari 6878 Vol. 9, Book 83, Hadith 17 you are either very ignorant of Sharia or a person who is spreading Islam..... either are a danger to our Rebuplic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 21, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,129 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Badjao33 said: As a follower of Christ I am commanded to be a champion of truth and if I'm determined to be an enemy of the state for speaking the truth, then so be it. Faithfreedom.org, understandingthethreat.com and John Guandulo are not reliable sources for information and their propaganda should not be read or shared by Christians. that is an outright lie.... I went to one of John's classes.... it was a three day CLEET class and I saw documentation covering everything he said..... in case you are not aware a CLEET class is put on for continuing education for law enforcement..... your source is the typical that is posted from an Islamic apologist...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 21, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,129 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2018 and I know you didn't have time to watch the video's.... so you speak of not what you know, but what you have been told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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