A religion of peace?

[KiwiChristian]

27 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

How is it possible for there to be 33,000 commands to kill non-believers in the Qur'an when there are only 6,236 verses found in it? 

There are not even 3,300 commands to be found in the Qur'an that command someone be killed just because they are a non-believer; not 330, 33, or even 3.

What you have posted here is a lie, and by definition, this would make you a false witness would it not?

“A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.” Proverbs 14:5

“A truthful witness gives honest testimony, but a false witness tells lies.” Proverbs 12:17

 The Bible goes on to tell us:

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." Exodus 20:16

Being a false witness does not please God:

"There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community."  Proverbs 6:16-19

And we as followers of Christ should try our best to keep God's commandments:

"Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,"  1 John 2:4

The worst part about bearing false witness towards others is that it damages our own personal witness of being a follower of Christ.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

10 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

How is it possible for there to be 33,000 commands to kill non-believers in the Qur'an when there are only 6,236 verses found in it? 

There are not even 3,300 commands to be found in the Qur'an that command someone be killed just because they are a non-believer; not 330, 33, or even 3.

What you have posted here is a lie, and by definition, this would make you a false witness would it not?

“A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.” Proverbs 14:5

“A truthful witness gives honest testimony, but a false witness tells lies.” Proverbs 12:17

 The Bible goes on to tell us:

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." Exodus 20:16

Being a false witness does not please God:

"There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community."  Proverbs 6:16-19

And we as followers of Christ should try our best to keep God's commandments:

"Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,"  1 John 2:4

The worst part about bearing false witness towards others is that it damages our own personal witness of being a follower of Christ.

Nice post, something to keep in mind, 

But also must be the proper contex as it must always. Jesus was the Christ and in the minds of the people expecting him to deal with the Romans, they were wondering how he is going to do it. 

When Jesus spoke these words he must have his mission in his mind, of how he will be mistreated and how he was going to respond and react, even thought he had the power to protect himself, but he wont be using it. 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

10 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Yes

So you post information for the world to see without doing any research first? Wouldn't that still make you a false witness? I'm surprised that another one of our brothers or sisters didn't point out your error before now. 

The false witness issue was of more importance. 

100%

Qur'an (5:33)  Unbelievers who wage war against Allah and Muhammad (Defensive)

Qur'an (9:5)   Those who worship idols (God gave Moses similar commands in the Bible)

Qur'an (47:3-4) This too is during a time of war when the unbelievers are fighting against Allah and Muhammad (Defensive)

Qur'an (4:89) This is referring to unbelievers who are oppressing and persecuting Muslims. (Defensive)

I am defending the truth, because if we as followers of Christ do not speak the truth, then our personal testimony means nothing.

My words are based on knowledge and experience in the field. 

One of the biggest questions I get from Muslims when I engage them is why do Christians always have to lie about and slander Islam. 

True story.

 

 Here is something that is no lie.....if you desire to convert to % Islam, the first thing you must do is to renounce the Deity of Jesus Christ,insuring your damnation.Satan in the guise of allah has deceived you.Islams denial of Christ is all the Satan cares about.....the rest of Islam’s beliefs are small potato’s

10 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

 

 

[KiwiChristian]

11 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

"Rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind...   Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us...  Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing." (1 Peter 2:12, 1 Peter 2:1, 1 Peter 3:9)

“Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."  (Luke 6:27-30)

 

Yes. Amen! this is totally contrary to islam.

[KiwiChristian]

11 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Yes

So you post information for the world to see without doing any research first? Wouldn't that still make you a false witness? I'm surprised that another one of our brothers or sisters didn't point out your error before now. 

The false witness issue was of more importance. 

100%

Qur'an (5:33)  Unbelievers who wage war against Allah and Muhammad (Defensive)

Qur'an (9:5)   Those who worship idols (God gave Moses similar commands in the Bible)

Qur'an (47:3-4) This too is during a time of war when the unbelievers are fighting against Allah and Muhammad (Defensive)

Qur'an (4:89) This is referring to unbelievers who are oppressing and persecuting Muslims. (Defensive)

I am defending the truth, because if we as followers of Christ do not speak the truth, then our personal testimony means nothing.

My words are based on knowledge and experience in the field. 

One of the biggest questions I get from Muslims when I engage them is why do Christians always have to lie about and slander Islam. 

True story.

 

Qur'an (5:33). Correct. Still, this is in sharp contrast to Jesus' teachings.

Qur'an (9:5). LOL. So, you are ADMITTING that muslims must kill idol worshippers? Show me in the new covenant ( which you obviously don't know about ) where Jesus commands to kill idol worshippers.

Qur'an (47:3-4) But the muslims START the war! Holy war is to be pursued against those who reject Allah. The unbelievers are to be killed and wounded.  Survivors are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test.  (See 47:4 for more context)

Qur'an (4:89) 1) If i am oppressed by someone ( which has and does happen to me ), i do not wage war against them. I follow what Jesus said about blessing them. 2) i would not call this "defensive" in the strict sense of the word. "They but wish that ye should reject Faith" does NOT imply the level of "oppression" that warrants war and murder. I dont want ANYONE to become muslim. So, does that mean you are saying it is ok for muslims to wage war and fight against ME?!

 

"I am defending the truth". No, you are not. You said there were not 3 verses in the koran speaking about killing non-believers. We have agreed that there is at least ONE ( idolaters ) that lives up to YOUR interpretation of the koran. Do you really want me to find 2 more that will fit your interpretation of the koran and thus prove your ignorance? I hope not because i dont want to have to do that, my friend.

 

"because if we as followers of Christ do not speak the truth, then our personal testimony means nothing."

Yes and no. If we are ignorant on something, then i would challenge the label of "lie". If we KNOW the truth and then present something different, THAT is what i would call a "lie".

 

I could troll out MANY verses, articles, references on this topic, but i dont want to be banned for spamming or harassing.

 

 "One of the biggest questions I get from Muslims when I engage them is why do Christians always have to lie about and slander Islam. "

 

LOL. Of course muslims are going to try to make excuses for the violent verses in the koran. What _I_ see from the many debates i have watched between Christians and muslims is how muslims generally have NO IDEA what Christians believe or what the Bible teaches.  It is truely laughable in some cases.

[KiwiChristian]

11 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Yes

So you post information for the world to see without doing any research first? Wouldn't that still make you a false witness? I'm surprised that another one of our brothers or sisters didn't point out your error before now. 

The false witness issue was of more importance. 

100%

Qur'an (5:33)  Unbelievers who wage war against Allah and Muhammad (Defensive)

Qur'an (9:5)   Those who worship idols (God gave Moses similar commands in the Bible)

Qur'an (47:3-4) This too is during a time of war when the unbelievers are fighting against Allah and Muhammad (Defensive)

Qur'an (4:89) This is referring to unbelievers who are oppressing and persecuting Muslims. (Defensive)

I am defending the truth, because if we as followers of Christ do not speak the truth, then our personal testimony means nothing.

My words are based on knowledge and experience in the field. 

One of the biggest questions I get from Muslims when I engage them is why do Christians always have to lie about and slander Islam. 

True story.

 

“About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.”

–Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy

 

“Lord…Give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 2:286

“Lord…give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 3:147

“I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.” Quran 8:12

“Let not the unbelievers think they will ever get away. They have not the power so to do. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy…” Quran 8:59-60

“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” Quran 9:73

“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123

“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another…” Quran 5:51

“He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost.” Quran 3:85

“Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful – he that does this has nothing to hope for from Good – except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return.” Quran 3:28

“Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.

“Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: ‘Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'” Quran 22:19-20

“Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.” Quran 48:29

“Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise.” Quran 4:56

“Believers, know that the idolaters [non-Muslims] are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended.” Quran 9:28

“The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.” Quran 98:6

 

 

[KiwiChristian]

11 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

 

 

What are your thoughts on chop-chop alley?

 

If you doubt what We have revealed to Our servant, produce one chapter comparable to it. Call upon your idols to assist you, if what you say be true. But if you fail (as you are sure to fail) then guard yourselves against the Fire whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the unbelievers.

Quran 2:23-4, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 3

 

 

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

Quran 9:73, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 198

 

 

Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.

Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206

 

Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.

Quran 48:29, "Victory," Dawood, p. 514

 

Let not the unbelievers think that they will ever get away. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of God and your enemy...

Quran 8:59-60, "The Spoils," Dawood, p. 183

 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

4 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

That one doesn't command Muslims to kill unbelievers either. Now you are forgetting the historical context. Just like similar commands were given to Moses in the past, so were these commands to Muslims. They do not apply today. 

You would be wasting your time anyway. 

 If this were my forum I would ban you for not having a Christlike attitude towards your Muslim neighbors. 

I would argue that most Muslims know more about the teachings of Christ than many self-professing Christians do.

And contrary to your own actions. Let's put Islam and your hatred of Muslims aside and read these verses again. Ask yourself if your behavior and attitude in this thread is inline with that of Jesus Christ whom we are to imitate in our daily lives. 

“Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."  (Luke 6:27-30)

"Rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind...   Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us...  Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing." (1 Peter 2:12, 1 Peter 2:1, 1 Peter 3:9)

Do the above verses describe your personal testimony and witness to others?

"Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ."  Paul  (1 Corinthians 11:1)
 

What concern is any of that of ours as followers of Christ? We need only be concerned with reaching the lost, including those who deny Christ.

 

 

“The lost” deserve to know the truth about Islam.Followers of this damnable religion tend to be hush- hush about all the requirements to join in.

[simplejeff]

1 minute ago, Badjao33 said:

So insulting them will lead them to the real Truth?  The Way, the Truth, the Life? 

Do you believe God looks at those who attack their neighbors religion on forums such as this is proud of their witness?

 

?? Isn't it better if someone has a fatal condition to warn them or alert them to the fatal condition,

and the remedy for the fatal condition ?    Stay quiet,  and they just die...... and their blood then is on your hands.... (as written in Scripture) .....

[Blood Bought 1953]

7 hours ago, simplejeff said:

?? Isn't it better if someone has a fatal condition to warn them or alert them to the fatal condition,

and the remedy for the fatal condition ?    Stay quiet,  and they just die...... and their blood then is on your hands.... (as written in Scripture) .....

 

I could not have said it better myself..... thank you, Jeff