Lead Us Into Tribulation ?

[simplejeff]

5 hours ago, IvyRose said:

Thanks for your patience with me on this...but one more question here...How could we get left behind if God is just going to rapture us all up?  

Don't even have to think about this, no,  not at all. 
When the Thessalonians started worrying about this,  they were corrected by the Apostles with Scripture.  (the Thessalonians were wrong, they had started to be deceived, or were tempted to be) .  Today there are still many Thessalonians, many already deceived,  many already wrong, and it will stay this way for most people's lives,  until Jesus returns as He Says.

[wingnut-]

10 minutes ago, IvyRose said:

Amen brother...and thanks for the scriptures on this.

 

My pleasure sister,

I would also offer this for your consideration, as it applies to your earlier conversation in regards to whom Jesus was speaking to.  There are three accounts of this conversation in scripture, and the details of all three accounts are telling.

 

Luke 21:5 And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said,

 

Luke tells us that some were speaking, no specifics given, although in following verses he records these individuals were calling Jesus, teacher, or Rabbi.

 

Matthew 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

 

Matthew tells us that His disciples came privately and asked these things.  This would account for the witness of the three gospels which discuss this, and it is important that He is speaking to the very men who would start the church following His resurrection.

 

Mark 13:3 And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

 

Mark gives us the specific names of those asking, and we recognize them as four of the twelve.  Pay close attention to the fact that John was one of those four, and his gospel is the only one that does not include this information.  Specifically though why it is important to  note that John was one of these four is this.

Pre-trib wants to claim that this information was written to the Jews, a sort of pick and choose what parts of even the gospels apply to them.  Now John is one of the four asking questions here, but in regards to this they say it is about Israel, nothing to do with the church.  However, they will tell you that in Revelation 4 verse 1, when John is told to come up here, this represents the church being raptured.  So it is telling, when a theory conflicts with itself, is John a Jew or is he representing the church?  It seems to be that the idea here is whatever is convenient to support a theory, whereas I prefer consistency.  Anyway, just some food for thought.

God bless

[IvyRose]

3 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

If it takes one week, one month,  six months or 3 years slow starvation, does it matter ?

How many already have or are in the United States "starving" ,  have bad health, for lack of ability to get nutrition/ food/ clean water ? (a lot).

How many already in the United States are suffering from disease complicated or even initiated by bad nutrition ?  (many )

Starving is bad and so is malnutrition, and yes it is sad that people in this day in age...especially in the US, the land of plenty, are suffering from starvation.  

 

As for the rest of it...I do agree with you...I do think Christians will suffer, but it is still possible they can get some food by other means.  But like you are saying, I know we're not going to be eating 5 course well nourished meals in the end times.  

[wingnut-]

4 minutes ago, IvyRose said:

.I do think Christians will suffer, but it is still possible they can get some food by other means.

 

I think scripture covers this as well.

 

Matthew 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

 

God will provide for His children, faith is what we need to have, He will do the rest.

God bless

[IvyRose]

3 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

My pleasure sister,

I would also offer this for your consideration, as it applies to your earlier conversation in regards to whom Jesus was speaking to.  There are three accounts of this conversation in scripture, and the details of all three accounts are telling.

 

Luke 21:5 And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said,

 

Luke tells us that some were speaking, no specifics given, although in following verses he records these individuals were calling Jesus, teacher, or Rabbi.

 

Matthew 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

 

Matthew tells us that His disciples came privately and asked these things.  This would account for the witness of the three gospels which discuss this, and it is important that He is speaking to the very men who would start the church following His resurrection.

 

Mark 13:3 And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

 

Mark gives us the specific names of those asking, and we recognize them as four of the twelve.  Pay close attention to the fact that John was one of those four, and his gospel is the only one that does not include this information.  Specifically though why it is important to  note that John was one of these four is this.

Pre-trib wants to claim that this information was written to the Jews, a sort of pick and choose what parts of even the gospels apply to them.  Now John is one of the four asking questions here, but in regards to this they say it is about Israel, nothing to do with the church.  However, they will tell you that in Revelation 4 verse 1, when John is told to come up here, this represents the church being raptured.  So it is telling, when a theory conflicts with itself, is John a Jew or is he representing the church?  It seems to be that the idea here is whatever is convenient to support a theory, whereas I prefer consistency.  Anyway, just some food for thought.

God bless

Amen and thanks for all the scriptures and explanations. Your posts have been really helpful for me. 

[IvyRose]

2 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

I think scripture covers this as well.

 

Matthew 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

 

God will provide for His children, faith is what we need to have, He will do the rest.

God bless

Amen...Thanks so much for bringing all these scriptures back to my remembrance.  

God Bless you brother...

[simplejeff]

8 minutes ago, IvyRose said:

Starving is bad and so is malnutrition, and yes it is sad that people in this day in age...especially in the US, the land of plenty, are suffering from starvation.  

 

As for the rest of it...I do agree with you...I do think Christians will suffer, but it is still possible they can get some food by other means.  But like you are saying, I know we're not going to be eating 5 course well nourished meals in the end times.  

See the thread on starvation.   Christians die every day (millions in the last 10 years, at least).  Unbelievers die even 'faster' (many times more in number). 

Followers of Jesus DIED in the first century.  By beatings,  sawn in two ? ,  crucifixion (more common than realized- gigglesearch a history of this when there's time, if YHVH permits) ,   beheadings,  other executions very commonly...

AND in many centuries since then right up to modern times.  See Foxes Book of Martys in worthychristianlibrary.com .

[ENOCH2010]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

See the thread on starvation.   Christians die every day (millions in the last 10 years, at least).  Unbelievers die even 'faster' (many times more in number). 

Followers of Jesus DIED in the first century.  By beatings,  sawn in two ? ,  crucifixion (more common than realized- gigglesearch a history of this when there's time, if YHVH permits) ,   beheadings,  other executions very commonly...

AND in many centuries since then right up to modern times.  See Foxes Book of Martys in worthychristianlibrary.com .

But the pre-trib crowd say the church doesn't have to go through tribulation 

[iamlamad]

On 2/16/2018 at 9:12 AM, IvyRose said:

Thanks for your patience with me on this...but one more question here...How could we get left behind if God is just going to rapture us all up?  

Have you read the story of 10 virgins? It seems they all had oil at one time, but only 50% of them got to enter in. Why were the other five left out? They were SHORT on oil. I am convinced here that oil represents the Holy Spirit. People get short on the Holy Spirit because they never fellowship with God. Jesus never hears from them. 

Did you ever read about being "filled" with the Holy Spirit? They certainly new what that meant in the book of Acts. But many churches today don't believe in it and don't practice it. We CAN be filled with the Holy Spirit and we can STAY filled. 

Next, Jesus mentioned "watch" many times in scriptures. It seems then that He is coming for those who are EXPECTING His coming. 

 

Heb. 9:²⁸ So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

So what happens if we are not looking?

Can someone that expects to see the Beast of Chapter 13 first really be looking for Christ first?

[iamlamad]

18 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

But the pre-trib crowd say the church doesn't have to go through tribulation 

Pretrib does not say that. We are not going to go through God's wrath. However, many people do not understand that the entire 70th week is God's wrath. They imagine they can separate God's wrath from Satan's wrath, and just don't understand they happen at the same time.