1.The Rapture Theory

[Pipirip]

11 hours ago, DJ7 said:

Just wondering why it is Jesus never mentioned a "rapture" when he laid out the events leading up to his return. You would think it most important for Jesus to mention it, unless 1 - it's not true, 2 - maybe he for got, 3 - God didn't tell him about it, 4 - or actually he did mention it AT THE END - Matthew 24:31.

Jesus says he who endures unto to end shall be saved. No mention of those who are a Christian will get a free ticket out of here. Because it says

It is appointed once for a man to die, then the judgement. If they are raptured then they won't die. Which means that verse would be wrong, unless they have to come back and die which is ridiculous not to mention not something God would do to us.

My friend just as you have read it and understand what I have wrote, you don't need to doubt in God words.

[OneLight]

3 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

No, if you look at the original quote, the "note" is at the end of his quote and is what he wrote; it's not my note.

("quote", "wrote", "note"? Wow, I'm a poet and don't even know it! )

Yes, that is what I thought.  I didn't say it was correct, but what I thought.  If you highlight something in a post, the ste software will give you the option to quote just the highlighted words.  See ...

5 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

Wow, I'm a poet and don't even know it!

 

[Last Daze]

6 hours ago, ScottA said:

No, I am not waiting for the return of Jesus. He came as a babe in a manger and I did not know Him, but have believed that He did come the first time. But now, in my lifetime He has come a second time, as He said He would: He knocked, I answered, and He came into me...and it is forever. He did not leave me, nor forsake me, that I should be looking for Him to come again - He is here with me - always.

That is how it is suppose to happen according to the scriptures. In fact, He goes so far as to say - not that He is coming to the world again in the way you describe, but "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also", and also said "the world sees me no more", and He said "quickly" - not in the distant future. 

So your idea of Him coming to this world, and all the rest of your information is simply a misunderstanding of what is actually meant by what you would consider corroborating proof...otherwise you would be saying that He contradicted Himself in the things I have just quoted, that half of what He said is true, and the other half is not true. You and I cannot have that argument. Nonetheless, He is not coming here in the way you have been taught or now believe. But He has come and does come according to His own promise, and according to all that He said, not just the part you have incorrectly believed.

Preterest?

[Daniel 11:36]

ScottA is a preterist

[Pipirip]

3 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

No, if you look at the original quote, the "note" is at the end of his quote and is what he wrote; it's not my note.

("quote", "wrote", "note"? Wow, I'm a poet and don't even know it! )

My friend sorry for my wrong doing. I'm new here and writing via a Mobil. And I have to practice using those small bottom here. Thanks ?

[ScottA]

5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Preterest?

Not at all.

[ScottA]

10 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

In like manner as you saw him go into heaven, He will return from heaven.

In Christ

Montana Marv

To properly understand that statement, one must understand what is meant by "like" manner.

It is assumed that because it was viewed by some living in the world, that it means He will return in the flesh and in view of the world. But He Himself said, "the world sees me no more." So, that kind of thinking is completely wrong. 

No, one must understand what was being witnessed. He had committed [only] His spirit to the Father and not His flesh...and that was His spirit and not His flesh, going to the Father that was witnessed. So, the "like" manner that the statement refers to, was "in spirit", just as "God is spirit." Therefore, He returns "in spirit"...and thus, the world sees Him "no more."

[Adstar]

17 hours ago, ScottA said:

No, I am not waiting for the return of Jesus. He came as a babe in a manger and I did not know Him, but have believed that He did come the first time. But now, in my lifetime He has come a second time, as He said He would: He knocked, I answered, and He came into me...and it is forever. He did not leave me, nor forsake me, that I should be looking for Him to come again - He is here with me - always.

That is how it is suppose to happen according to the scriptures. In fact, He goes so far as to say - not that He is coming to the world again in the way you describe, but "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also", and also said "the world sees me no more", and He said "quickly" - not in the distant future. 

So your idea of Him coming to this world, and all the rest of your information is simply a misunderstanding of what is actually meant by what you would consider corroborating proof...otherwise you would be saying that He contradicted Himself in the things I have just quoted, that half of what He said is true, and the other half is not true. You and I cannot have that argument. Nonetheless, He is not coming here in the way you have been taught or now believe. But He has come and does come according to His own promise, and according to all that He said, not just the part you have incorrectly believed.

Well at lest you are clear about your position.. You do not believe in the literal second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ.  That's very sad..  

Of course i believe you are greatly mistaken.. Both the OT and the NT declare that the LORD Jesus will return..  On the Day that Jesus left this earth it was declared to the Apostles that He would return in like manor..

Acts 1: KJV

9 "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. {10} And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; {11} Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

Jesus went up in his Body... and He shall return in like manor meaning He will return to earth in a body.. His glorified body.. On the Day of the LORD.. 

Zechariah 14: KJV

1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. {2} For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. {3} Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. {4} ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah states that the Lords feet shall stand upon the mount of Olives on the day of the LORD..  This most definitly is a Physical return.. This did not happen on the day of penticost which was a spiritual return in the form of Gods Holy Spirit..

The Book of Revealtions also testify to this return of the LORD Jesus Christ and How He shall rule the world with an Iron Rod..

Revelation 19: KJV

11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. {12} His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. {13} And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

So the Word of God,, whom the Gospel of John declares Jesus to be.. Will come and fight against the nations as prophecised in Zechariah 14.. Will also Rule them with an Rod of Iron.. Will He be ruling them with an Iron Rod in heaven?  No He will be ruling them with the Saints on earth as we read..

Revelation 20: KJV

4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

So Jesus and the Saints will be ruling the nations that survive and remain for 1000 years..

[ScottA]

3 hours ago, Adstar said:

Well at lest you are clear about your position.. You do not believe in the literal second coming of the LORD Jesus Christ.  That's very sad..  

Of course i believe you are greatly mistaken.. Both the OT and the NT declare that the LORD Jesus will return..  On the Day that Jesus left this earth it was declared to the Apostles that He would return in like manor..

Acts 1: KJV

9 "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. {10} And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; {11} Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

Jesus went up in his Body... and He shall return in like manor meaning He will return to earth in a body.. His glorified body.. On the Day of the LORD.. 

Zechariah 14: KJV

1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. {2} For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. {3} Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. {4} ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Zechariah states that the Lords feet shall stand upon the mount of Olives on the day of the LORD..  This most definitly is a Physical return.. This did not happen on the day of penticost which was a spiritual return in the form of Gods Holy Spirit..

The Book of Revealtions also testify to this return of the LORD Jesus Christ and How He shall rule the world with an Iron Rod..

Revelation 19: KJV

11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. {12} His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. {13} And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

So the Word of God,, whom the Gospel of John declares Jesus to be.. Will come and fight against the nations as prophecised in Zechariah 14.. Will also Rule them with an Rod of Iron.. Will He be ruling them with an Iron Rod in heaven?  No He will be ruling them with the Saints on earth as we read..

Revelation 20: KJV

4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

So Jesus and the Saints will be ruling the nations that survive and remain for 1000 years..

Do not be sad for me, but for yourselves and your children.

As I said, "we cannot have this argument." You cannot declare truth using scripture against scripture, those things which I have quoted. I do not have any argument against the scriptures that you have quoted and they are all in accord with what I have quoted. But you have a problem with me giving you the whole truth and therefore use scripture against scripture as if God were against Himself. He is not. But you will argue that you too do not disagree with what I have quoted, but rather what I have said of it, so since I have told you that what I have said agrees with the scriptures you have quoted, I will ask you:

How do your reconcile what you have said and claim will happen in the world, with the biblical fact that "the world sees Me no more", said by Jesus?

[Daniel 11:36]

Why not admit that you have a preteristic interpretation and just teach it