The Times of the Gentiles...Luke 21: 20-28

[Daniel 11:36]

 "These things" refer back to verse 6 where Jesus predicts that not one stone of the temple will be left on another. It points to the forthcoming destruction of Jerusalem. That is the natural reading and it is probably why interpreters have traditionally and rightly read it that way

 

And it is still the same today .... the coming tribulation period is still pending

Edited March 12, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

 "These things" refer back to verse 6 where Jesus predicts that not one stone of the temple will be left on another. It points to the forthcoming destruction of Jerusalem. That is the natural reading and it is probably why interpreters have traditionally and rightly read it that way

 

And it is still the same today .... the coming tribulation period is still pending

You missed his point.  He said "FORTHCOMING destruction of Jerusalem"; that is, in 70 A.D.

It's been said, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I have a corollary to this saying for prophecy: "Those who don't learn a prophecy's fulfillment from history are doomed to THINK that the prophecy must yet be fulfilled."

[Daniel 11:36]

The last 2000 of history are not given in any Bible prophecy for the time of the end .... the Lord is waiting

[Montana Marv]

On 3/11/2018 at 3:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

Furthermore, half of the 70th Week is already over, being fulfilled in 27-30 A.D., making Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 QUITE incapable of speaking of the entire "70th Week that is still pending."

I'll put it to you: WHY is there a gap at all between the 69th Week and the 70th Week? NO ONE who believes in such a gap has adequately answered that question.

I, on the other hand, can give you a simple and BIBLICAL reason for a gap between the first half of the 70th Week and the second half of that same 70th Week: YESHUA` HIMSELF put it there when He left the Jews of Jerusalem "DESOLATE," as per Daniel 9:27, in Matthew 23:37-39, specifically verse 38.

When Yeshua` started His "ministry," He offered the Kingdom to His generation:

Roy

Dan 9:24 specifically lists 70 Sevens.  (or 70 Seven year periods) verses 25 to 27 break the 70 Sevens into;  7 Sevens, 62 Sevens, and 1 Seven, That is it.  7 and 62 and 1, totals 70.  Don't go beyond that, because one will then bring into play other theories which are not accurate.

Let's look at a 36 inch yardstick. (a One Seven).  The midpoint is at 18 inches.  If one has the theory of splitting the yardstick into two pieces, then there is no yardstick (no one seven).

Roy, Jesus Himself cannot separate this final One Seven into two separate entities.  Why, because He (the Word) has already established a One Seven.  Not two separate divided 3 1/2 year periods.  The Prophecy cannot be changed.  Jesus cannot change what He has already put into place or Prophesied.

The thing is Jesus did not leave the Jews or Jerusalem desolate as you say.  The Disciples were told to stay in Jerusalem until they were to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Many Jews accepted Jesus (were they desolate)?  Acts 2:41,  3,000 were added to the Church (Jews).  Where is the desolation here.

When looking at the 70 Sevens, Daniels People (Israel) and the holy city (Jerusalem) have 490 prophetic years to receive the benefits of 6 listed items in v.  24.  Has Israel received the benefits of Dan 9:14?  No, therefore the Final One Seven has not taken place.  Christ, the Anointed One, was cut off at the end of the 69th Week.

The people of the ruler to come (Titus) will destroy the and the sanctuary (70 A.D.)  The end will come like a flood. War will continue to the end, and desolations have been decreed.

He will confirm a covenant with many for One Seven. (Christ was cut off at the end of the 69th Week)  In the middle of the Week, he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.  (Sacrifice and Offering kept going until 70 A.D.) And he will set up an A/D, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

The whole jest of the 70 Sevens is, when Israel will accept their Messiah.  They will accept their Messiah at the 2nd Coming, when they see the one who they have pierced.  The finality of the 70th Week or the final One Seven.  Then the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

[Retrobyter]

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Tenuous details"? They are NOT "weak!" And, they are CERTAINLY not "insubstantial!" I haven't missed the truth about what the Lord said; He was quite clear! He was talking TO His own disciples at that time before His death, using in translation of the Greek language, the pronouns "humeis," "humoon," "humin," and "humas," "you" plural. When He was using these words, He was speaking DIRECTLY to the ones with Him on Har Ha-Zeitiym that day! He was warning THEM, not some people 2,000 years later!

Shalom, Daniel 11:36.

Rather than just copying a paragraph from what I wrote, try using the "+ Quote" button at the bottom of the post. You can delete part of it if you don't want to quote it all, but without using the "+ Quote" button, I won't get notification that you are quoting me. Furthermore, you are not off-setting what I wrote from what you are saying/adding. It'll also make it clearer who's saying what.

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The Lord is speaking to Israelites in Matthew 24 .... period

I agree with you. Although they were His disciples and believers, they were still Jews.

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The Gentiles were the next part the last 2000 years of which will not close until He is ready

True, they are Gentile (non-Jewish) believers who are added to Yeshua`s Kingdom ahead of time, but I think you're misunderstanding what constitutes when "He is ready."

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

His presence ended at the end of the 69 week .... His discussion in Matthew 24 is essentially about Israel in tribulation during the 70th week that is coming

Ummm.... no. The 69th Week ended at Yeshua`s baptism. The 70th Week began with Yeshua`s offer of the Kingdom to Israel. His discussion in Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is essentially about Israel in tribulation BETWEEN the two halves of the 70th Week.

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

You need a better story.

You need to quit listening to "stories" and pay attention to the historical accounts of Scripture.

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

He speaks of Israel in the coming tribulation period during the 70th week decreed

No one knows when this 7 year period will begin

Nope. The seven-year period has already begun; therefore, we KNOW when it started. Remember the six purposes for the 70 Sevens:

Daniel 9:24 (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
a. to finish the transgression, and
b. to make an end of sins, and
c. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
d. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
e. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
f. to anoint the most Holy.

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

And stop with all of your definitions, many of which have no connection to the Lord's word.

Only because you don't understand them, yet. Give it some time and study. Maybe ... one day ... they'll start to sink in.

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

You have concocted much nonsense with your diatribes 

Again, the "nonsense" is only in your twisted way of hearing what I'm saying. WAKE UP!

[Daniel 11:36]

"You need to quit listening to "stories" and pay attention to the historical accounts of Scripture"

 

The historical accounts of all scripture support what I am saying to the letter

Better start over again and read your Bible

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Roy

Dan 9:24 specifically lists 70 Sevens.  (or 70 Seven year periods) verses 25 to 27 break the 70 Sevens into;  7 Sevens, 62 Sevens, and 1 Seven, That is it.  7 and 62 and 1, totals 70.  Don't go beyond that, because one will then bring into play other theories which are not accurate.

Let's look at a 36 inch yardstick. (a One Seven).  The midpoint is at 18 inches.  If one has the theory of splitting the yardstick into two pieces, then there is no yardstick (no one seven).

Nope. You've not been reading Daniel 9:27 correctly:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst (middle) of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (this is where the gap goes!), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Roy, Jesus Himself cannot separate this final One Seven into two separate entities.  Why, because He (the Word) has already established a One Seven.  Not two separate divided 3 1/2 year periods.  The Prophecy cannot be changed.  Jesus cannot change what He has already put into place or Prophesied.

And, yet, He DID JUST THAT! Listen carefully: "In the middle of the Seven He shall cause the sacrifice and the gift to cease (the veil in the Temple split in two from the top to the bottom), and for the multiplication of abominations, He shall make it 'DESOLATE,' even until the END TIMES! And, what is ALREADY SENTENCED shall be poured upon those made 'DESOLATE.'"

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The thing is Jesus did not leave the Jews or Jerusalem desolate as you say.  The Disciples were told to stay in Jerusalem until they were to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Many Jews accepted Jesus (were they desolate)?  Acts 2:41,  3,000 were added to the Church (Jews).  Where is the desolation here?

The desolation is in the stubborn streak within the leadership of the Jews. They were given 40 years (a time of testing) to change, and they refused to repent. So, when 70 A.D. came, the Temple was destroyed, "not one stone left upon another!" Then the Diaspora began and the Jews were shipped off into the various provinces of the Roman Empire, scattered among the Gentiles. Even the "believers," being mostly Jews in Jerusalem and Judaea, if discovered, were also shipped off. It was at this time that the persecutions and the Jewish believers began living in the mountains and in the catacombs of Rome! There were pockets of Jews - believers and non-believers alike - scattered all across Asia Minor and Greece! And, they have been living in desolation ever since! Even up until 1948, they didn't have a homeland to call their own! And, since that time, they have CONSTANTLY lived under the persecution and terrorism of the Arab communities in their Land and all around them!

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

When looking at the 70 Sevens, Daniels People (Israel) and the holy city (Jerusalem) have 490 prophetic years to receive the benefits of 6 listed items in v.  24.  Has Israel received the benefits of Dan 9:14?  No, therefore the Final One Seven has not taken place.  Christ, the Anointed One, was cut off at the end of the 69th Week.

No. That's NOT what it says. It says, "AFTER 69 Weeks, the Messiah shall be cut off," NOT "AT THE END OF 69 Weeks." And, the three and a half years of Yeshua`s ministry - His offer of the Kingdom to Israel, particularly His own tribe, Yhudah - were the first half of that 70th Week!

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The people of the ruler to come (Titus) will destroy the city and the sanctuary (70 A.D.)  The end will come like a flood. War will continue to the end, and desolations have been decreed.

He will confirm a covenant with many for One Seven. (Christ was cut off at the end of the 69th Week)  In the middle of the Week, he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.  (Sacrifice and Offering kept going until 70 A.D.) And he will set up an A/D, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Nope. A "sacrifice" is ONLY a sacrifice IF God accepts it, and He stopped accepting them when the Veil was torn in two at Yeshua`s death, for the Veil IS His body!

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The whole gist of the 70 Sevens is, when Israel will accept their Messiah.  They will accept their Messiah at the 2nd Coming, when they see the one who they have pierced.  The finality of the 70th Week or the final One Seven.  Then the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I agree with the rest of this, except that it is only the last half of the 70th Week that BEGINS the Millennium.

[Retrobyter]

21 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"You need to quit listening to "stories" and pay attention to the historical accounts of Scripture"

 

The historical accounts of all scripture support what I am saying to the letter

Better start over again and read your Bible

Prove it.

[Montana Marv]

Roy

The One Seven cannot be butchered. It must remain whole and complete. Either totally fulfilled. Or totally unfulfilled.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Last Daze]

20 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Roy

The One Seven cannot be butchered. It must remain whole and complete. Either totally fulfilled. Or totally unfulfilled.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Why not?  The fourth kingdom was "butchered."  I think the "butcherings" are related.