Just How Close is the RAPTURE?

[Diaste]

I never quite understood the time frames from Dan 8.

23 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

When the 1260 day war against the saints begins, many will be martyred but some believers will be deceived into receiving the mark and worshiping the image.

This is great tribulation, yes? Doesn't last 1260 days though, gotta be cut short as Jesus said, yes?

25 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The plagues are God's judgment of that idolatry for the purpose of conviction and repentance. 

Seals and trumpets, yes. Not all the seals and trumpets but the ones containing the plagues are for that purpose, I agree.

27 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The plagues will last 1150 days until no more repent, then the two witnesses are killed, ending the 1260 days.

Wouldn't the two witnesses have to appear in the first half, before the war against the saints begins? It's possible their ministry overlaps halves of the week I suppose. It looks to me as though the two witnesses should appear the moment the covenant with many is confirmed, to stand against the beast and warn Israel, which would be the entire first half of the week. They are killed by the beast when the beast sits in the Temple as god, fulfilling 1260 days of prophecy, and their deaths at the hands of the newly self appointed god.

33 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The great tribulation takes place during the 110 days that precede the restoration of the deceived believers, the time when everyone is forced to worship the image or die.

So only 110 days of great tribulation, and the mark of the beast? Would there be time for everyone to get the mark in that short of time? What about policing the people in the worship of the image and the murder of those who refuse? Could that be done in 100 days? In six years, give or take, 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis in a concentrated effort to exterminate the people of God. We are talking 100's of millions, perhaps a billion or two, that will be forced to worship the image or die. I don't think it's possible in that short of time.

[Daniel 11:36]

You are both talking about nonsense

The 70th week will last 7 years of 360 day each beginning in Chapter 8 and ending in Chapter 19 with 30 days for the battle of Armageddon 

[Last Daze]

53 minutes ago, Diaste said:

This is great tribulation, yes? Doesn't last 1260 days though, gotta be cut short as Jesus said, yes?

What makes the great tribulation "great"?  It's duration?  No.  Its intensity is what makes it great.  So, to cut short the great tribulation is not speaking of duration, but rather intensity.  The great tribulation is the first 110 days of the 1260 days.  The remaining 1150 days is still a time of tribulation and war against the saints, but not "great" or as intense as it was when it started.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Seals and trumpets, yes. Not all the seals and trumpets but the ones containing the plagues are for that purpose, I agree.

The seventh seal contains the seven plagues (trumpets & bowls) that begin after the sixth seal.  The sixth seal is what I see as lessening the intensity of the great tribulation, followed by the seven plagues which further hinders the persecution of saints during the 42 months.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Wouldn't the two witnesses have to appear in the first half, before the war against the saints begins? It's possible their ministry overlaps halves of the week I suppose. It looks to me as though the two witnesses should appear the moment the covenant with many is confirmed, to stand against the beast and warn Israel, which would be the entire first half of the week. They are killed by the beast when the beast sits in the Temple as god, fulfilling 1260 days of prophecy, and their deaths at the hands of the newly self appointed god.

As I see it, the two witnesses confirm the new covenant for 1260 days with Israel in the wilderness.  Jesus confirmed the new covenant for ~3.5 years and was cut off.  I don't see a future 7 year period of time, only 1335 days per Daniel 12.  Regardless, the two witnesses are the plague-bringers and their death takes place just prior to Armageddon.  Their death is cause for great rejoicing as the oppressive conditions of the plagues are lifted.  This also enables the armies to gather.

The new covenant temple of God is the body of Christ.  That's where God dwells.  The veil was torn in two.  The measuring of the temple of God (body of Christ) in Rev 11 is when the mark and the image are introduced, and when the two witnesses begin their ministry.

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

So only 110 days of great tribulation, and the mark of the beast? Would there be time for everyone to get the mark in that short of time? What about policing the people in the worship of the image and the murder of those who refuse? Could that be done in 100 days? In six years, give or take, 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis in a concentrated effort to exterminate the people of God. We are talking 100's of millions, perhaps a billion or two, that will be forced to worship the image or die. I don't think it's possible in that short of time

I assume that the technology for the mark will be widespread before the man of sin is revealed.  Its just that the mark will be his mark, his name or number.  Everyone must use the First Bank of Abominations.

Given the suffocating nature of surveillance technology, and AI drones (air and ground) being programmed to identify and confront, I think it would be very difficult to evade the mark and image for 110 days.  If you haven't dug into the capabilities of such, it's an eye-opener.  And I'm sure that we, the general public, don't know the half of it.  Plus, everyone who takes his mark and worships the image is an enforcer.  I see it as quite possible.

~~~~~~~~~~

Regardless of the details, its certain that we are called on to persevere in our faith in Jesus and endure to the end, whenever or however that end comes about.  I'm not so locked into the above that I can't adjust if and when circumstances might dictate.  It's important that we all keep watching and praying, regardless of our expectations.  The one who endures to the end will be saved.

So, my answer to the OP is that the rapture is 1335 days after the Abomination of Desolation.  The more pertinent question is "how close are we to the AoD?" since it comes first and starts the prophetic clock ticking. 

[Diaste]

41 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

You are both talking about nonsense

The 70th week will last 7 years of 360 day each beginning in Chapter 8 and ending in Chapter 19 with 30 days for the battle of Armageddon 

More or less I see the same in scripture. There is a 7 year period coming ending the age of the Government of man and ushering in the Rule of the King of Kings.

Like this:

Beginning of Sorrows   1st half of the week, 3.5 years.

A of D                              Midpoint.

Great tribulation            Less that 3.5 years.

Wrath of the Lamb        The balance of the last half.

Then some short periods where there is cleansing, dedications, etc, before the 1000 years begin.

[Diaste]

12 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

What makes the great tribulation "great"?  It's duration?  No.  Its intensity is what makes it great.  So, to cut short the great tribulation is not speaking of duration, but rather intensity.  The great tribulation is the first 110 days of the 1260 days.  The remaining 1150 days is still a time of tribulation and war against the saints, but not "great" or as intense as it was when it started.

I think a normal understanding of cut short, in the context of days, is duration. Matt 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened,"

15 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The seventh seal contains the seven plagues (trumpets & bowls) that begin after the sixth seal.  The sixth seal is what I see as lessening the intensity of the great tribulation, followed by the seven plagues which further hinders the persecution of saints during the 42 months.

Try as I might I just cannot find this consecutive chronology of Seals,trumpets and bowls. I know it's been said and believed over the years but I don't see it. Trumpets are indeed sounding as seals are being opened. The first seal would span the duration of the last week for certain. The rider of the white horse being the beast, who lasts until his defeat by Jesus at the very end. This is a study in itself but it sure looks as though it all culminates at the same time/space moment in an successively consecutive fashion.

23 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

The new covenant temple of God is the body of Christ.  That's where God dwells.  The veil was torn in two.  The measuring of the temple of God (body of Christ) in Rev 11 is when the mark and the image are introduced, and when the two witnesses begin their ministry.

While it's true the real temple of God is the body of Christ, this doesn't preclude the building of a stone Temple dedicated to God by the will of man, misguided though it may be.

26 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Given the suffocating nature of surveillance technology, and AI drones (air and ground) being programmed to identify and confront, I think it would be very difficult to evade the mark and image for 110 days.  If you haven't dug into the capabilities of such, it's an eye-opener.  And I'm sure that we, the general public, don't know the half of it.  Plus, everyone who takes his mark and worships the image is an enforcer.  I see it as quite possible.

Not that I think tech plays no part...but we aren't talking about crowd control. The scenario would play out with 100's of millions from every place people dwell attempting to evade capture or death, or both. I think it would be impossible to dedicate drones to finding families or individuals at any time especially so quickly. The idea of the beasts acolytes as enforcers is valid only even more terrifying when another fact is considered. These followers of the beast make personal images of the beast the false prophet empowers to speak.

Rev 13, "14...saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

Tech has to be manned and monitored, these images have their own life.

 

[Last Daze]

22 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I think a normal understanding of cut short, in the context of days, is duration. Matt 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened,"

The war against the saints will last for 42 months.  That can't be shortened, however, the intensity can be changed.

25 minutes ago, Diaste said:

While it's true the real temple of God is the body of Christ, this doesn't preclude the building of a stone Temple dedicated to God by the will of man, misguided though it may be.

Agreed, but would scripture refer to it as the temple of God?

26 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Tech has to be manned and monitored, these images have their own life.

The deceived are instructed to build an image.  It is a code of conduct that must be obeyed.  It has life when it is made law, then it becomes actionable, and non-compliance is cause for death.  Tech can be "wound up and let go" with AI.

[Daniel 11:36]

"More or less I see the same in scripture. There is a 7 year period coming ending the age of the Government of man and ushering in the Rule of the King of Kings"

 

I agree

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The war against the saints will last for 42 months.  That can't be shortened, however, the intensity can be changed.

But it's only great tribulation that's shortened, not the 42 months of the beast's authority.

 

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Agreed, but would scripture refer to it as the temple of God?

For a particular purpose, sure, depending on the current narrative and context. This is a prophecy concerning the Jewish Temple, which is also known world wide as the Temple of God. That it is no longer a spiritual temple does not affect the title. Its akin to the law. One is stone, one is spiritual. One is death, the other, life.

 

21 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The deceived are instructed to build an image.  It is a code of conduct that must be obeyed.

Yes. But it appears its AN image EACH. I'll revisit the study to confirm. Right now I'm sure that's what I understood.

[Last Daze]

12 minutes ago, Diaste said:

But it's only great tribulation that's shortened, not the 42 months of the beast's authority.

Agreed.  We likely have different ways of saying the same thing.

13 minutes ago, Diaste said:

For a particular purpose, sure, depending on the current narrative and context. This is a prophecy concerning the Jewish Temple, which is also known world wide as the Temple of God. That it is no longer a spiritual temple does not affect the title. Its akin to the law. One is stone, one is spiritual. One is death, the other, life.

I'm open to the idea of a structure in Israel where they resume OT sacrifices, etc. but I don't expect it.  I'm well aware of the natural / spiritual dual track which is why I'm open to the idea.

19 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Yes. But it appears its AN image EACH. I'll revisit the study to confirm. Right now I'm sure that's what I understood.

Understanding the image of the beast relies on understanding who the beast is.  He is an evil spirit being.

[Diaste]

Last Daze,

Please help me on the times and days from Daniel 12

11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days."

Since this appears to be in relation to the 1260 days, where does the additional 30 days come from in Daniel 12:11 and what is the purpose?

And also what is significance of the 45 days beyond 1290 days from 12:12?

Is there a OT parallel, in the Torah perhaps, to the the 75 days in Daniel 12 as a whole, or parallels to the two separate periods of 30 and 45 days?

Thanks