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n2thelight

Last Trump vs The Seventh

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On 3/15/2018 at 10:45 AM, Daniel 11:36 said:

There are 10 "last trumpets" .... all blown by the Lord

Find them

Can't find them,help me out...Last to me means no more...

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The first and last trumpets for His own Just before the coming tribulation period [Revelation 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 4:16]

The 7 judgment trumpets during the tribulation period [Revelation 8:2]

One at the end of His judgment for Israel {Matthew 24:29-31]

 

 

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On 3/15/2018 at 12:15 AM, n2thelight said:

Paul says we gather to Christ at the last trump,how can the 7th of Rev,not be the last?

1 Thessalonians 4: KJV

16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The last trump here is blown by God. The last trump in Revelation 10:7....is blown by an angel, as are the other 6.

Obviously different trumpets.

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The 'last trumpet' is not the last trumpet of Revelation's trumpets. I used to believe that it was. When the angel blows the 7th trumpet, then we will be raptured (I thought)....... but that means us Christians are right in the middle of God's wrath. And scripture tell us that we will not face the wrath of God. 

So then here is an explanation of the last trumpet that the apostle Paul refers to:....and it makes sense

The phrase used by Jesus in Matt. 24:36 is peculiar. The “day and hour that no one knows” was a Jewish idiom in Jesus’s day. It was a “code” word for the Jewish Holiday, Yom Teruah (which today is referred to as Rosh Hashan.

 Jesus frequently used Jewish idioms in his teaching, so idiom usage was not unusual or unexpected. In Matt. 8:11, Jesus referred to the “feast” and “Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” In the first century, Israelites believed the honored guests at the wedding feast in the Millennial Kingdom would be the “seven shepherds:” Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, and King David. By referring to a feast and the first three of the honored guests, Jesus’s audience understood him.

When Jesus called Nathaniel as a disciple, he mentioned he saw him “under the fig tree” (John 1:48).  In the First Century this idiom referred to study of the Torah in the Millennial Kingdom (using a reference to Micah 4:4 and Zech. 3:10)[ii]. All of Jesus’s words were carefully chosen and understood by his audience although we may misinterpret them today. This includes the phrase “the day and hour no man knows.”

Joseph Lenard and Donald Zoller in their landmark book The Last Shofar express the question about Yom Teruah this way:

“How can such an apparent contradiction be reconciled with Matthew 24:36 and other Scriptures so as to let us know the date without knowing the day or hour?”[iii] – Lenard and Zoller

The authors make an important distinction between date and day; a distinction that eludes most western commentators. The date of Yom Teruah is Tishri 1 on the Jewish lunar calendar. This date is known as the “Hidden Day” (Yom Hakeseh) or the “day and hour that no man knows.” Yom Teruah falls on the first of the month, and the first day of each Jewish month is determined by the sighting of a New Moon. Because this is also the first day of the New Year and a MO’EDIM (Yom Teruah), this sighting is of particular importance. In biblical times, two witnesses were assigned this task by the Sanhedrin. This sighting (by the two witnesses) can take place on either of two possible days and at any hour of the night. Thus the date is known: Tishri 1, but the day and hour of this sighting is unknown.

After the sighting of the new moon, the High Priest ordered the blowing of trumpets. This is of incredible importance in understanding Jesus’s phrase in Matt. 24:36. All of the inhabitants of Jerusalem could look up at the waning moon and observe the moment the last sliver became dark, but that was not Yom Teruah. The MO’EDIM did not begin until the High Priest and the Sanhedrin announced it was Yom Teruah.

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus prophesied many detailed aspects of the time prior to his return. He is God after all. Yet, western commentators would have us believe God the Son doesn’t know the day of his own return. Rather, what Jesus’s statement about “only the Father” knowing may have meant: “it isn’t the Yom Teruah (of the Rapture) until God the Father announces it’s Yom Teruah.” Only the Father knows; only the Father announces it. This parallels the system used in ancient Israel where the High Priest announced the MO’EDIM and ordered the blowing of trumpets. God the Father will announce the blowing of the Last Trumpet.

 The Greek word translated “knows” in Matt. 24:36 is EIDO which primarily means “to see, to perceive or to know because you perceive.” Translated that way, the verse would read:

But of that day and hour no one SEES, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. (Matt. 24:36)

 Yom Teruah is known as the Feast of the Blowing of Trumpets, including the Last Trumpet (TEKIAH GADOLAH [1 Cor. 15:52]). In Jewish thought, there were three trumpet blasts on MO’EDIM. The First Trumpet was blown on Pentecost or Shavuot and the Last Trumpet was blown on Yom Teruah. The Final or Great Trumpet was blown on Yom Kippur of Jubilee years to announce the Jubilee.  So when Paul referred to the Last Trumpet in 1 Cor. 15:52, this was a specific reference to Yom Teruah.

 

Pay attention to this line from the article above......."This sighting (by the two witnesses) can take place on either of two possible days and at any hour of the night. Thus the date is known: Tishri 1, but the day and hour of this sighting is unknown".

It's quite possible that the celestial disturbance of Rev 6:12 could block out the sighting of the new moon so that only God the Father can see it. Makes logical sense.

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Posted (edited)

I think that your story is false and cluttered with Jewish idioms

None of this is scriptural .... this idea is not a part of Revelation's unfolding

Only when the Lord ushers in His millennial kingdom upon the earth will He then add some of these things

So you should not expect any of them to be instituted between the Lord's departure a the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel and the end of the coming tribulation period of the 70th week still pending

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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On 3/18/2018 at 7:34 PM, JoeCanada said:

The 'last trumpet' is not the last trumpet of Revelation's trumpets. I used to believe that it was. When the angel blows the 7th trumpet, then we will be raptured (I thought)....... but that means us Christians are right in the middle of God's wrath. And scripture tell us that we will not face the wrath of God. 

So then here is an explanation of the last trumpet that the apostle Paul refers to:....and it makes sense

The phrase used by Jesus in Matt. 24:36 is peculiar. The “day and hour that no one knows” was a Jewish idiom in Jesus’s day. It was a “code” word for the Jewish Holiday, Yom Teruah (which today is referred to as Rosh Hashan.

 Jesus frequently used Jewish idioms in his teaching, so idiom usage was not unusual or unexpected. In Matt. 8:11, Jesus referred to the “feast” and “Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” In the first century, Israelites believed the honored guests at the wedding feast in the Millennial Kingdom would be the “seven shepherds:” Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, and King David. By referring to a feast and the first three of the honored guests, Jesus’s audience understood him.

When Jesus called Nathaniel as a disciple, he mentioned he saw him “under the fig tree” (John 1:48).  In the First Century this idiom referred to study of the Torah in the Millennial Kingdom (using a reference to Micah 4:4 and Zech. 3:10)[ii]. All of Jesus’s words were carefully chosen and understood by his audience although we may misinterpret them today. This includes the phrase “the day and hour no man knows.”

Joseph Lenard and Donald Zoller in their landmark book The Last Shofar express the question about Yom Teruah this way:

“How can such an apparent contradiction be reconciled with Matthew 24:36 and other Scriptures so as to let us know the date without knowing the day or hour?”[iii] – Lenard and Zoller

The authors make an important distinction between date and day; a distinction that eludes most western commentators. The date of Yom Teruah is Tishri 1 on the Jewish lunar calendar. This date is known as the “Hidden Day” (Yom Hakeseh) or the “day and hour that no man knows.” Yom Teruah falls on the first of the month, and the first day of each Jewish month is determined by the sighting of a New Moon. Because this is also the first day of the New Year and a MO’EDIM (Yom Teruah), this sighting is of particular importance. In biblical times, two witnesses were assigned this task by the Sanhedrin. This sighting (by the two witnesses) can take place on either of two possible days and at any hour of the night. Thus the date is known: Tishri 1, but the day and hour of this sighting is unknown.

After the sighting of the new moon, the High Priest ordered the blowing of trumpets. This is of incredible importance in understanding Jesus’s phrase in Matt. 24:36. All of the inhabitants of Jerusalem could look up at the waning moon and observe the moment the last sliver became dark, but that was not Yom Teruah. The MO’EDIM did not begin until the High Priest and the Sanhedrin announced it was Yom Teruah.

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus prophesied many detailed aspects of the time prior to his return. He is God after all. Yet, western commentators would have us believe God the Son doesn’t know the day of his own return. Rather, what Jesus’s statement about “only the Father” knowing may have meant: “it isn’t the Yom Teruah (of the Rapture) until God the Father announces it’s Yom Teruah.” Only the Father knows; only the Father announces it. This parallels the system used in ancient Israel where the High Priest announced the MO’EDIM and ordered the blowing of trumpets. God the Father will announce the blowing of the Last Trumpet.

 The Greek word translated “knows” in Matt. 24:36 is EIDO which primarily means “to see, to perceive or to know because you perceive.” Translated that way, the verse would read:

But of that day and hour no one SEES, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. (Matt. 24:36)

 Yom Teruah is known as the Feast of the Blowing of Trumpets, including the Last Trumpet (TEKIAH GADOLAH [1 Cor. 15:52]). In Jewish thought, there were three trumpet blasts on MO’EDIM. The First Trumpet was blown on Pentecost or Shavuot and the Last Trumpet was blown on Yom Teruah. The Final or Great Trumpet was blown on Yom Kippur of Jubilee years to announce the Jubilee.  So when Paul referred to the Last Trumpet in 1 Cor. 15:52, this was a specific reference to Yom Teruah.

 

Pay attention to this line from the article above......."This sighting (by the two witnesses) can take place on either of two possible days and at any hour of the night. Thus the date is known: Tishri 1, but the day and hour of this sighting is unknown".

It's quite possible that the celestial disturbance of Rev 6:12 could block out the sighting of the new moon so that only God the Father can see it. Makes logical sense.

So ,it's the last trumpet of what?

And what about Paul in the letter to Corinth?

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

If the 7th of Rev is not the last,where is the 8th?

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9 hours ago, n2thelight said:

So ,it's the last trumpet of what?

And what about Paul in the letter to Corinth?

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

If the 7th of Rev is not the last,where is the 8th?

The last trumpet from Rev is the last of seven trumpets blown.....by an angel. These are trumpet blasts to announce wrath.

The last trump from I Cor 15:52 is blown by God himself. It is the trump of the resurrection and rapture.......

1 Thes 4:16...... For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

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1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

The last trump from I Cor 15:52 is blown by God himself. It is the trump of the resurrection and rapture.......

When was the first trump?

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Posted (edited)

"If the 7th of Rev is not the last,where is the 8th?"

 

The 7th trumpet of Revelation is a judgment trumpet

The 8th is blown for Israel just after the tribulation period [Matthew 24:29-31]

Keep in mind that the Lord's discourse in Matthew 24 is all about Israel, and not the "church"

The 2 trumpets blown by the Lord are for the "church"

These two trumpets are different [Revelation 1:10] and [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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