Beware the NIV Teen Study Bible

[Adstar]

30 minutes ago, IainL said:

Can I just ask why it matters to you what version of the Bible another Christian is reading? 

I read/listen to at least 7 different versions sometimes at the same time: KJV, NIV, NLT, ESV, CEV, Amplified and the Old Afrikaans Version. I have yet to find any really crucial differences. I would not expect everybody else to read those if they preferred ones that I have not mentioned. You are also welcome to stick to the KJV if you feel more comfortable doing so. It's entirely your choice. May I suggest letting others make the choice for themselves?

Now just let me also say that, in my view, there is no problem if the point of this discussion is to look at a certain Bible and saying why we feel another version does it better or expressing why we dislike a certain version. I would hope that such a discusion is based on solid evidence. The problem comes in when we treat those who disagree with us as if they are children who don't yet fully understand and need to be corrected. Or as lost sheep that need to be taught not to wander off.  There is the posibility that you could be wrong. And people can  be solid Christians, close to God and  on the right track and still disagree with you on certain points such what version they prefer. 

Hello IainL 

We read in the KJV lucifer being given a title and Jesus being given a title..

KJV

Isaiah 14:12

¹²   How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

 So Lucifer/satan is the son of the morning in the KJV..

KJV

Revelation 22:16

¹⁶I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

So Jesus is the Morning Star in the KJV.. So all is well Jesus and satan are different they are not the same Being

..

Now let us look at what the NIV reveals about satan and Jesus..

NIV

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

The NIV reveals that satan is the morning star

NIV

Revelation 22:16

¹⁶"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you^[1] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

The NIV also reveals that Jesus is the Morning Star ..

So the NIV reveals that Jesus and satan are the same being..  Are you comfortable with the NIV stance that Jesus is satan? Or do you see this as being blasphemous?

[LadyKay]

1 hour ago, Adstar said:

How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

 

The NIV reveals that satan is the morning star

NIV

Jesus is title "Morning Star"  In the NIV .   Lucifer is being called morning star son of the dawn.  Jesus is being called the Morning Star.   Not the same.     Also the title of Jesus is capitalized reading "Morning Star" indicating that it is a name or a title.  In Isaiah when referring to   Lucifer, it is written in small letters like so "morning star, son of the dawn".  It is not a name or a title.  More of a description.

See here how it is written in the NIV  Isaiah 14:12   How you have fallen from heaven,   morning star, son of the dawn!  (see, no capitalizing)  Then in Revelation 22:16 NIV  I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you  this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” ( it is capitalize indicating a name or a title.) 

So you are mistaken. Lucifer is not being given the title/name Morning Star in the NIV. He is not being given a name at all. All these little details are important in critiquing things.  

 

[Heleadethme]

6 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

Jesus is title "Morning Star"  In the NIV .   Lucifer is being called morning star son of the dawn.  Jesus is being called the Morning Star.   Not the same.     Also the title of Jesus is capitalized reading "Morning Star" indicating that it is a name or a title.  In Isaiah when referring to   Lucifer, it is written in small letters like so "morning star, son of the dawn".  It is not a name or a title.  More of a description.

See here how it is written in the NIV  Isaiah 14:12   How you have fallen from heaven,   morning star, son of the dawn!  (see, no capitalizing)  Then in Revelation 22:16 NIV  I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you  this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” ( it is capitalize indicating a name or a title.) 

So you are mistaken. Lucifer is not being given the title/name Morning Star in the NIV. He is not being given a name at all. All these little details are important in critiquing things.  

 

If I'm not mistaken, some sources say that Lucifer means morning star or something like it.  Perhaps the the similarity in names/descriptions makes a point that he is the arch-enemy, the antithesis, of Christ.  Masquerading....a counterfeit....deceptive Antichrist.

[Heleadethme]

On 3/28/2018 at 9:47 AM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

They are probably just trying to be funny, giving definitions that your average unsaved teen might normally use. But I would agree that this is inappropriate for a study bible

Amen.  I agree in principle it's good to research and make sure we've got the context right etc.......BUT either way......it's just plain wrong to use off-colour jokes as a way of reaching teens or anyone.  Rude, dirty, off-colour jokes have no place in a Christian context no matter how we slice it.  And what a terrible   example to set for the young.......there is nothing even a bit funny to the carnage that sin causes, not even the slightest bit amusing, it's a very serious, often life or death matter.......but this is what seeker-friendly ways have led to, dirty jokes, instead of doing things God's way.  If anyone is not bothered by it, we really do need to examine ourselves.

[Henry_iain]

5 hours ago, Adstar said:

Hello IainL 

We read in the KJV lucifer being given a title and Jesus being given a title..

KJV

 

Isaiah 14:12

 

¹²   How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

 

 So Lucifer/satan is the son of the morning in the KJV..

KJV

Revelation 22:16

¹⁶I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

 

So Jesus is the Morning Star in the KJV.. So all is well Jesus and satan are different they are not the same Being

..

Now let us look at what the NIV reveals about satan and Jesus..

NIV

 

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

 

The NIV reveals that satan is the morning star

NIV

Revelation 22:16

¹⁶"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you^[1] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

The NIV also reveals that Jesus is the Morning Star ..

So the NIV reveals that Jesus and satan are the same being..  Are you comfortable with the NIV stance that Jesus is satan? Or do you see this as being blasphemous?

What does the name "Lucifer" mean in English? Does it not mean "bright star" ?  

The NIV does not say satan and Jesus are the same being. 

[GandalfTheWise]

4 hours ago, Adstar said:

So the NIV reveals that Jesus and satan are the same being..  Are you comfortable with the NIV stance that Jesus is satan? Or do you see this as being blasphemous?

This is quite an accusation if I am understanding it correctly.  This accusation appears to be saying that an entire team of Bible translators are some form of heretics or closet satanists.  It also appears to be saying that Christians who read the NIV are either ignorant it teaches Jesus is the devil or agree with that.  It also appears to be saying that anyone who does not agree with the accusation is potentially committing blasphemy.

If the NIV translators truly believed that Jesus and Satan are the same being as is alleged, why in the world would they leave the passages I've included below intact?  Why not delete them or rewrite them?  One can make a much stronger case that Jesus and Satan are separate beings from the NIV than they are the same.   Indeed, outside of stringing together a couple disparate verses such as (Isaiah 14:12 and Rev 22:16) and adding a few worst case assumptions and explanations and ignoring a plethora of plain passages that teach Jesus and the devil are different beings, it is impossible to teach the Jesus is the devil using the NIV unless one is disingenuous or completely deceived. 

4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” 5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you,  and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” 7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” 11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.  Matt 4:1-11 NIV

4 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 where for forty days he was tempted[a] by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”  4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’” 5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’” 9 The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here.10 For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you   to guard you carefully; 11 they will lift you up in their hands,  so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’" Jesus answered, “It is said: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. Luke 4:4-10 NIV

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”  Matt 16:23 NIV

9 At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” 12 At once the Spirit sent him out into the wilderness, 13 and he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.  Mark 1:9-13 NIV

17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.” 18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” Luke 10:17-20 NIV

27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.  So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” John 13:27 NIV

how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.  Acts 10:38 NIV

 

Of the many Christians I know who read the NIV, I do not know a single one who believes that Jesus is the devil.  I have however met people in person (and read many more online) who believe that Jesus was a created being, that Jesus and Satan were spiritual brothers of some sort, that Satan was a scapegoat the bore our sins in some manner, and that Jesus and the archangel Michael are the same.  These people tried to convince me of their beliefs using the NWT (New World Translation by the JWs) and the KJV (used by SDAs and LDS).   Many years ago, I had one person try to convince me that the KJV taught that yoga was commanded by Jesus (29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.) because they claimed that yoke and yoga were the same word in Greek.   Does this make me reject the KJV version?  No!  Anyone can take single words and verses from any version, string them together along with many assumptions and fanciful explanations, and produce just about any belief that they want.  This is basically what the original accusation does in taking a few words from an NIV OT verse and a NIV NT verse along with some assumptions and saying that this proves that the NIV teaches Jesus is the devil.  I reject the interpretation  saying Jesus commanded us to do yoga as well as rejecting the interpretation that says Jesus and the devil are the same being.  It's foolish and sloppy to take a few words here and there to prove what someone already wanted to prove.

Outside of the KJV-only faction of Christians and those influenced by them, I do not know anyone who seriously believes that the NIV explicitly teaches that Jesus and the devil are the same being, nor do I know any NIV reader who would accept that reasoning.  Indeed, every NIV reader I know would quickly and forcefully reject that way of interpreting those verses and trying to tie them together.

In my opinion, the accusation (as I understand it)  is not only baseless but skirts dangerously close to the sin of being a false accuser of the brethren.  It is one thing to point out errors or perceived errors for correction or to comment about healthy and unhealthy spiritual practices to help others grow.  It is another thing to debate the best translation of particular Hebrew or Greek phrases into English.  However, it is a far different thing to go beyond those things to accuse some Christians of actively believing and teaching that Jesus is the devil and blaspheming as well as in effect accusing other Christians of being so spiritually dull that they are unable to recognize the someone is saying that Jesus is the devil.

 

[LadyKay]

1 hour ago, Cletus said:

i said the NIV has omissions.  lots and lots and lots of them.

I thought I had explain this clearly enough in another post?All that stuff about footnotes and what not?  

[Guest Butero]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 7:41 PM, LadyKay said:

The missing parts are in the footnote section of the NIV Bible. Reading "some later manuscripts......."   This has been pointed out in some past replies but yet stills seems to not be understood. My old NIV Bible printed in 1983 has a small letter "b" pointing me to the footnote. My research tells me that the KJV added words to the Bible by mistake that should have never been there in the first place. Thus that is why they are not in NIV, but included as a footnote explaining that "some early or later manuscripts say........"   All this can be found with a bit of research as I have done. But so many KJV only people are so bent on thinking they are 100% right, they don't want to even try to understand  what anyone else has to say. 

With all of that said. My thoughts are since the NIV is giving me the verse and also showing me how the verse is read in  some other manuscripts as it points me to the footnote, It makes sense to me that the NIV gives me the all around understanding of the verse.  

Your research is false.  The verses that were supposedly added by mistake by the KJV translators were part of the original manuscripts in use by the church at that time.  All one has to do to verify that is go back to the Geneva Bible, which pre-dates the KJV Bible, and see they are all in that translation as well.  The verses left out of the NIV are missing only in the Alexandrian and Egyptian manuscripts which were incomplete.  There is only one exception, and that is 1 John 5:7, which is also missing in some additional manuscripts, but even that is included in the Geneva Bible, and was considered canon without controversy until the flood of modern translations came out.

As far as the footnotes go, placing portions of the text in footnotes is not the same as including them in the text.  For one thing, some don't read footnotes, and for another, the translations that do that are bringing into question whether those verses belong.  The same thing goes with placing a line after Mark 16:8 and claiming that some manuscripts don't include verses 9-20.  That brings the entire passage into question, making it apocrypha for all intents and purposes.  This has the same effect as discrediting the Biblical canon and making it an open rather than closed canon.  

Another major problem with the NIV is the fact that they intentionally perverted portions of the text to make it gender neutral.  This doesn't agree with any of the Greek or Hebrew manuscripts.  It is a change they simply made on their own.  That makes the NIV one of the worst translations on the market.  This change was even attacked by people that normally defend modern translations, like James Dobson.  The only modern English translation I know of that includes the entire text is the NKJV Bible.  As I have said before, I am personally KJV only, but if I had to use a modern English translation, the only one I would even consider is the NKJV Bible. 

[KiwiChristian]

On 3/30/2018 at 6:25 AM, frienduff thaylorde said:

And that is why I don't read it .    You be blessed now kiwi.   

You too, my friend.

[KiwiChristian]

20 hours ago, IainL said:

Can I just ask why it matters to you what version of the Bible another Christian is reading? 

 

Certainly, my friend.

If, just IF you knew that people are reading the WRONG text and it presents a lie, would you risk upsetting or offending them or tell them the truth?

 

 

20 hours ago, IainL said:

I read/listen to at least 7 different versions sometimes at the same time: KJV, NIV, NLT, ESV, CEV, Amplified and the Old Afrikaans Version. I have yet to find any really crucial differences.

 

Are you kidding? no crucial differences?!

 

Considering the kjv and the modern versions came from DIFFERENT sources, you see no crucial differences?

 

Sorry, i find that hard to believe.

 

Matthew 5:44 doesnt tell you to pray for your enemies.

 

Matthew 17:21 is REMOVED. This has to do with evil spirits. Why would the niv not want you to know how to get rid of these spirits? Hmm.   Matthew 18:11 is REMOVED. This tells us why Jesus came.   Matthew 27:35 removes a reference to fulfilled prophecy regarding Jesus. Luke 9:55 another verse dealing with evil sprits is bastardised.   1 Corinthians 6:9. "effeminate nor abusers of themselves with mankind," removed. The word "sodomite" is not found in the niv. I John 5:7-8 denies the trinity.

20 hours ago, IainL said: