Born again, a “real” birth.

[Mike Mclees]

3 hours ago, Gideon said:

And how many years, or even decades does it take for us to admit that what we want to happen is not happening? Our view of progressive sanctification is that we will grow from our old natures to our new ones over time. We are then told several things as to our sanctification.  

1) We can never truly be holy, for there will always be a small bit of flesh  left. Thus, the feet are cut out from any who truly long to walk holy before the Lord all day, every day. 

2) There is truly nothing we can do to hasten our journey toward holiness, for that would be working for it. So we are left simply as clock watching believers, looking for time to accomplish in us, what the in dwelling Christ cannot. 

Thus, the result of these two teachings is that we are left to simply wander barren pastures that cannot offer us overcoming life for our entire lives, as we try to avoid “big” sins, told not to sweat our  “little” ones, because no one is perfect, right? So we  go to church, read our Bibles, pray for forgiveness when we slip, and the result? Such a life leaves us passionless, joyless, and yes..... lukewarm. And then we wonder why those in the world are not exactly lined up at the door of our churches to get what we have? 

We are promised life and that more abundantly. We are promised joy unspeakable and full of glory. We are told that we can walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil in THIS life and that we can do all things through a Him who strengthens us. And when anyone raises their voice to say that we indeed can live this life, that it is our birthright, because our God is the God who CANNOT lie, he or she is shouted down as a false teacher. Hmmmm...

How dark does it have to become before we cry out to Him for the free indeed He promised us, where we prove we are no longer slaves to sin because we no longer COMMIT them? Darkness like we have never seen is approaching. The time to run into Him and find true safety is now. The question is, will we finally admit that we need such a life, and that our way is not ever going to lead us to victory we so desperately need? 

We have been taught that as Christians, we have been all set on the highway to holiness, a highway with no end. It is a highway we can do nothing to navigate or to speed up our process. We are told we can never reach the end of it. Do we not realize that the Israelites traveled this same unending highway as they aimlessly circled the wilderness of unbelief?

Our God wants to plant us on the highway OF holiness, where there are no evil beasts, where God progresses us as we believe Him to do so, and you know what? Praise God, before He comes back, His church WILL be found there, every single one of us. We will finally become the bride without spot or wrinkle, fully prepared for the wedding to our bridegroom, not by our efforts, but by His efforts IN US as we believe His promises.

We can be planted there this very day, this very hour. No preparation is needed... none...... just  a burning desire to walk pleasing to Him. Some will do so, some will dig in their heels and remain convinced that that old wine is better. But I am convinced by the Lord that every single sheep, those who truly love the Lord in truth, WILL walk there, and in this life. It is coming. Heck, it is here. The only real question  is, who wants it more than their own life?

Blessings, 

 

3 hours ago, Gideon said:

 Gideon you seem to be one who is respected and knowledgeable amongst the posters.  Many times I feel like a non entity. I am asking if you believe what I say is true. Is it because what I say is true. 

I do no believe that one is automatically born again of the spirit at the time he confesses Christ. He is saved yes. One must come to an understanding or revelation of the spirit to be born again of the spirit. This is something Nicodemus did not understand in John 3: : Can a man go back to the womb? He had no clue what Jesus was talking about. Jesus said are you a leader of Israel and not  these thing. Jesus made 2 distinction. The spirit is spirit and the flesh is flesh. The flesh is the carnal nature of men. The carnal nature cannot grasp the tings of the spirit. The spirit which we cannot see exists even if we cannot see them. They are the unseen things of God.

We would rather be able to see feel or touch God. We like rulers who are human that we see feel and touch. Lets see what Jesus said the women at the well. 

John 4:19-24 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁹ The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

²⁰ Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

²¹ Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

²² Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

²³ But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

^{24 (}God is a Spirit) and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This means God is not seen yet is every where. 

If one never goes to his private prayer  place alone to talk to God, he is not Born again of the spirit. No private relationship no spiritual relationship. This is a spiritual fact

Romans 8:8  Those who are of the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 

Just one comes to Christ does not necessarily mean he is Dorn again of the Spirit. 

 

 

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[angels4u]

21 minutes ago, Gideon said:

For using the term ‘by gosh’? Ok, let me say this to Friendiff, By God, by His creating a bridge, we seem to be getting closer together. Is that better? LOL. 

Were you really serious? 

Gids

I know there are words which people use like "Oh my goodness" or so , we all may say that sometimes but it really comes from "Oh my God", it's really not good for a Christian to use these words and the warning is for all (including me) it's good to be reminded that some words may sound innocent but they are using the Lords name in vain

 

Is saying 'OMG' or words like geezstill taking the Lord's name in vain?

Question: "Is saying 'OMG' or words like geez still taking the Lord's name in vain?"

Answer: The idea of “taking the Lord’s name in vain” is first found in Exodus 20 when Moses receives the Ten Commandments. The third commandment states, “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain” (Exodus 20:7). What does this mean? How does it apply to terms like OMG and geez?

Taking the Lord’s name in vain is to speak of God with irreverence or disrespect. Many have traditionally understood the exclamation “Oh my God!” to be sinful, because it has nothing to do with a proper, reverent use of God’s name.

The same principle is true when a person uses an acronym such as OMG or a word like geez (the first syllable of Jesus’ name) or gosh (a modified form of God). If the intended meaning is to be disrespectful toward God and His name, the word should not be used. However, some people use OMG without any thought of its connection to God’s name, and that’s what makes this question difficult.

We could all use the reminder that our words carry meaning. As people who follow Christ, we care deeply about helping others and honoring God. We must ask ourselves, “Do these words help others and honor God?” If we are honest, we will probably admit that words such as gosh do not. It may not be easy to change a long-standing habit, but we must seek to speak words that build up one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11) and honor the Lord.

James 3:9-10 speaks of the tongue as a powerful part of the body: “With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.” Our goal is to be consistent in our use of words, so they would serve as a blessing to God and to others.

Paul wrote, “And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him” (Colossians 3:17). This stands as our basis for evaluating terms such as OMG and geez. Does using these words give “thanks to God the Father”? If not, begin working to remove these words from your conversations and texts in order to honor God “in word and deed.”https://www.gotquestions.org/OMG.html

 

[Heleadethme]

15 hours ago, brakelite said:

And recognition of that is I suppose part of the awakening, spoken of in another thread. The latter rain is beginning to fall, (not the counterfeit that charismatics claim as exclusively theirs)

Brother....I think here is where I am still confused.  I would like to ask how are you seeing this latter rain that is now beginning to fall...how do you see it manifesting...and can you please show me the scriptures that pertain to it.  What I am seeing in the bible as the latter rain is associated with the return of Christ and wont' happen until very near the end, during tribulation....where the two witnesses (Jew&Gentile church) are given power ('balance owing'of the Holy Spirit) and mete out judgments on the enemies of Christ during the final three and a half years before the resurrection and being caught up in the air to be with Him at His coming.  I am having trouble reconciling that scenario with what is being called an awakening here.  Also....in the parable, all 10 virgins are awakened, not just the wise....so to me the awakening spoken of there are simply the warnings and realization that Christ is about to return and the need to be ready.  The awakening in the parable is just this:

 Mat 25:6  And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Whereas the latter rain is the Holy Spirit poured out for the Bride (only on the 5 wise, but not on the 5 unwise)... to equip and arm her for the last great spiritual battle, and is the balance owing on the earnest of the Spirit. 

So in light of this, I'm wondering if it's possible that what some have understood to having received is actually the fullness of the former rain (earnest of the Spirit)....which they are calling an awakening and the latter rain....rather than being the 'balance owing' latter rain...because the balance owing will be quite a bit greater than the earnest of the Spirit and won't be business as usual, it will be a very powerful move among His people that we have yet to see on earth yet, from my understanding of the scriptures on that.

I think part of my difficulty is that I still haven't been able to figure out whether you are seeing the same thing that I am seeing and just need to understand and pin it to scripture more precisely, or whether they are actually two different things, or whatever the case may be.  I thought I had come to an understanding with Gideon on this, but then realized there were still some things that didn't seem to agree.  And just to say that I still don't consider that what I'm seeing in scripture is necessarily the whole picture either...and since we only know in part...but wondered if a bit more sorting out of these things might be helpful.

[Not me]

8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Ido no believe that one is automatically born again of the spirit at the time he confesses Christ. He is saved yes. One must come to an understanding or revelation of the spirit to be born again of the spirit. This is something Nicodemus did not understand in John 3: : Can a man go back to the womb? He had no clue what Jesus was talking about. Jesus said are you a leader of Israel and not know these these thing. Jesus made 2 distinction. The spirit is spirit and the flesh is flesh. The flesh is the carnal nature of men. The carnal nature cannot grasp the tings of the spirit. The spirit which we cannot see exists even if we cannot see them. They are the unseen things of God.

We would rather be able to see feel or touch God. We like rulers who are human that we see feel and touch. Lets see what Jesus said the women at the well. 

John 4:19-24 King James Version (KJV)

¹⁹ The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

²⁰ Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

²¹ Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

²² Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

²³ But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

^{24 (}God is a Spirit) and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This means God is not seen yet is every where. 

If one never goes to his private prayer  place alone to talk to God, he is not Born again of the spirit. No private relationship no spiritual relationship. This is a spiritual fact

Romans 8:8  Those who are of the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 

Just one comes to Christ does not necessarily mean he is Dorn again of the Spirit. 

 

As long as this is how your personal relationship with Christ is teaching you to “rightfully divide the Word of God”.

Blessing to you. 

much love in Christ, Not me

Edited May 5, 2018 by Not me

[Gideon]

1 hour ago, angels4u said:

I know there are words which people use like "Oh my goodness" or so , we all may say that sometimes but it really comes from "Oh my God", it's really not good for a Christian to use these words and the warning is for all (including me) it's good to be reminded that some words may sound innocent but they are using the Lords name in vain

 

Is saying 'OMG' or words like geezstill taking the Lord's name in vain?

Question: "Is saying 'OMG' or words like geez still taking the Lord's name in vain?"

Answer: The idea of “taking the Lord’s name in vain” is first found in Exodus 20 when Moses receives the Ten Commandments. The third commandment states, “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain” (Exodus 20:7). What does this mean? How does it apply to terms like OMG and geez?

Taking the Lord’s name in vain is to speak of God with irreverence or disrespect. Many have traditionally understood the exclamation “Oh my God!” to be sinful, because it has nothing to do with a proper, reverent use of God’s name.

The same principle is true when a person uses an acronym such as OMG or a word like geez (the first syllable of Jesus’ name) or gosh (a modified form of God). If the intended meaning is to be disrespectful toward God and His name, the word should not be used. However, some people use OMG without any thought of its connection to God’s name, and that’s what makes this question difficult.

We could all use the reminder that our words carry meaning. As people who follow Christ, we care deeply about helping others and honoring God. We must ask ourselves, “Do these words help others and honor God?” If we are honest, we will probably admit that words such as gosh do not. It may not be easy to change a long-standing habit, but we must seek to speak words that build up one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11) and honor the Lord.

James 3:9-10 speaks of the tongue as a powerful part of the body: “With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.” Our goal is to be consistent in our use of words, so they would serve as a blessing to God and to others.

Paul wrote, “And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him” (Colossians 3:17). This stands as our basis for evaluating terms such as OMG and geez. Does using these words give “thanks to God the Father”? If not, begin working to remove these words from your conversations and texts in order to honor God “in word and deed.”https://www.gotquestions.org/OMG.html

 

Do you not believe that man may look on the outer appearance but God looks at heart motives? Is eating meat offered to idols a sin? Not necessarily. Again, it depends upon the heart motive. To one, it may indeed be, but to another, he knows the idol is nothing so why worry about it?

“Blessed is the man whose heart does not condemn him in the things he alloweth.”

Gids

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

Do you not believe that man may look on the outer appearance but God looks at heart motives? Is eating meat offered to idols a sin? Not necessarily. Again, it depends upon the heart motive. To one, it may indeed be, but to another, he knows the idol is nothing so why worry about it?

“Blessed is the man whose heart does not condemn him in the things he alloweth.”

Gids

What does our conscience have to do with the commandment of God not to use His name in vain?

What does having the eating meat of idols in common with using the name of the Lord in vain?

[Gideon]

45 minutes ago, angels4u said:

What does our conscience have to do with the commandment of God not to use His name in vain?

What does having the eating meat of idols in common with using the name of the Lord in vain?

 

46 minutes ago, angels4u said:

What does our conscience have to do with the commandment of God not to use His name in vain?

What does having the eating meat of idols in common with using the name of the Lord in vain?

Let me make sure I have this correct. In kindness and attempting to build a bridge of fellowship with Frienduff,  I jokingly used the term “by gosh”. You then told me I had taken the Lord’s name in vain. Do you know what was in my heart when I said it? Was the intent of the words I used to lightheartedly build fellowship with a brother in Christ, or to being dishonor to the one who led and died to save me from my sins? 

God looks on the heart of the one uttering the words, and man wants to make a man a sinner for a word. It is not a difficult concept if you think about it. 

Blessings to you,

Gideon

[Mike Mclees]

34 minutes ago, Not me said:

As long as this is how your personal relationship with Christ is teaching you to “rightfully divide the Word of God”.

much love in Christ, Not me

The Spirit of God says this is the truth. There is no error. It is not personal belief. We need to go to our prayer place daily . God is there and he and  wants us to come to Him. If not you are just fooling yourself about being Born again of the Spirit.

[brakelite]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Brother....I think here is where I am still confused.  I would like to ask how are you seeing this latter rain that is now beginning to fall...how do you see it manifesting...and can you please show me the scriptures that pertain to it.  What I am seeing in the bible as the latter rain is associated with the return of Christ and wont' happen until very near the end, during tribulation....where the two witnesses (Jew&Gentile church) are given power ('balance owing'of the Holy Spirit) and mete out judgments on the enemies of Christ during the final three and a half years before the resurrection and being caught up in the air to be with Him at His coming.  I am having trouble reconciling that scenario with what is being called an awakening here.  Also....in the parable, all 10 virgins are awakened, not just the wise....so to me the awakening spoken of there are simply the warnings and realization that Christ is about to return and the need to be ready.  The awakening in the parable is just this:

 Mat 25:6  And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Whereas the latter rain is the Holy Spirit poured out for the Bride (only on the 5 wise, but not on the 5 unwise)... to equip and arm her for the last great spiritual battle, and is the balance owing on the earnest of the Spirit. 

So in light of this, I'm wondering if it's possible that what some have understood to having received is actually the fullness of the former rain (earnest of the Spirit)....which they are calling an awakening and the latter rain....rather than being the 'balance owing' latter rain...because the balance owing will be quite a bit greater than the earnest of the Spirit and won't be business as usual, it will be a very powerful move among His people that we have yet to see on earth yet, from my understanding of the scriptures on that.

I think part of my difficulty is that I still haven't been able to figure out whether you are seeing the same thing that I am seeing and just need to understand and pin it to scripture more precisely, or whether they are actually two different things, or whatever the case may be.  I thought I had come to an understanding with Gideon on this, but then realized there were still some things that didn't seem to agree.  And just to say that I still don't consider that what I'm seeing in scripture is necessarily the whole picture either...and since we only know in part...but wondered if a bit more sorting out of these things might be helpful.

Hi. Wow. I agree entirely with your timeline, and your reasoning. Certainly we are not witnessing yet that final outpouring of true Pentecostal power you speak of. However there is another perspective that parallels and dovetails into  the above scenario. 

The latter rain metaphor has another purpose aside from the power that gives the final push to the gospel before the end. ITT if that other purpose I see as beginning to work today, and is a part of the'awakening"we speak of... And that has the effect of ripening fruit for the harvest. The deep and full development of character in the child of God that prepares him for the final crisis. I see that taking place today. There is a work going on in the church that is dividing now the sheep from the goats. Judgement has begun in the house of God. Decisions for and against righteousness are now being made for eternity. The harvest is ripening and the end is close.

[Not me]

38 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

The Spirit of God says this is the truth. There is no error. It is not personal belief. We need to go to our prayer place daily . God is there and he and  wants us to come to Him. If not you are just fooling yourself about being Born again of the Spirit.

I’m sorry, you misunderstood what I wrote. I never said it was a “personal belief”

I said “if it’s what your personal relationship with Christ is teaching you.”

I couldn’t agree more. It is that one on one time we spend with Christ that will teach us all things.

much love in Christ, Not me

Edited May 6, 2018 by Not me