The Olivet Discourse

[The Light]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Let's refine this a little: the HORSE represents Warfare. There are Old Testament verses that show this.

The COLOR of the horse is what represents righteousness, and this is a BIGGIE! You cannot overlook this. God is simply not going to use white 16 times for righteousness and then once for something else in the same book!

This is a symbolic picture used by God to represent something else: in this case the church.

By the way, we know God has untold millions of horses in heaven! He has no shortage of horses. Those used in Zech. are probably still alive! Nothing dies in heaven.

We have the TIMING issue: the very time Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. (proven by events in chapters 4 & 5)

We have the color of white.

We have a horse to represent conquering.

We have a crown to repesent ultimate victory.

We have a bow (toxon) to represent a weapon, but no arrows: the GOSPEL is the arrows.

let everything be established with two or three witnesses. We have 5.

Let's refine even further.

We have a voice like thunder guaranteeing the trembling of the unbelievers.

We have the voice saying come which represents a command.

We see John looking which represents John witnessing the conquering and ultimate victory.

We see that white horse was "before" John which gives our timing.

We see that rider rode out instead of in which represents the out pouring of the spirit.

Now we have ten witnesses which doubles 5 meaning that John received a double portion.

There that out to do it. That was easy enough. There should be no questions now.

[JoeCanada]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

God chose to SHOW US a bow but no arrows. WE have to do the best we can with what God has given us.  The weapons of the church are not physical weapons of flesh and blood. We use spiritual weapons such as PRAYER, which is words backed up by faith.

God is very consistent in His word!  If white means righteousness 16 times, God is not going to change it to mean something else in the same book. Where is SPOCK with his logic? It is just not logical. On the other hand, if God chooses to tell a story that includes some history to get the story told, does He not have a right to do that?  You cannot compare apples to a fence post.

......"MANY will come in My name saying "I am the Christ and will mislead many". ...............   many have come and more WILL come. But the white horse is not one of them.  There is NOTHING there about misleading. There is nothing there about that first seal to give ANY indication of evil at all. It is all imagination.  I could say about the moon appearing red at the 6th seal and say, "that means black! Red here really means black" and it would make just as much sense as you make thinking this white horse and rider are evil - on the devil's side. You see white and you IMAGINE it cannot mean what white means 16 other times. You see conquering or overcoming and y0u imaging it must be some kind of EVIL conquering - when God gives No such indication.

I will agree, WHEN the Beast comes, He will deceive many. But you will not find the Beast at the first seal.

Since deception will be paramount in the last days, it makes complete sense that the rider on the white horse is the one who deceives  So just start calling white black and black white, call evil good and good evil, since you like opposites.

IF the horse was red, and IF this description was written in chapter 13, you would have a leg to stand on. As it is, you don't.  While God is thinking early church, you are thinking end times.

If he were to ride on any other color of horse, his deception wouldn't work.  Sorry, God is telling this story, not Satan. It is a revealing, not a hiding. God is telling this story, not the devil. God talks about deception but it is found in Revelation `13 and then past that in Revelation. You are trying to bring end times to the seals and it simply will not work. The seals are church age. Yes, the spirit of Antichrist was alive and well in John's day, but they were NOT near the end and "THE Antichrist" would not come for another 2000 years.

You stated:  

"We have a bow (toxon) to represent a weapon, but no arrows: the GOSPEL is the arrows."

You need to explain this one.

You say that the first seal is the Gospel going forth. 

The rider on the horse has a "bow".......which you say represents a "weapon"...........

But NO ARROWS.

Then you say that the Gospel represents the ARROWS????????

But the rider on the white horse ONLY has a BOW......NO arrows??????????

You neglected to answer this

If, as you say, the Gospel is the ARROWS, and the rider on the white horse ONLY has a bow, and NO ARROWS, then how does the Gospel go forth, being that it is the ARROWS?

He, the rider,  only has a BOW......

No ARROWS.....No Gospel!

[The Light]

5 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

You stated:  

"We have a bow (toxon) to represent a weapon, but no arrows: the GOSPEL is the arrows."

You need to explain this one.

You say that the first seal is the Gospel going forth. 

The rider on the horse has a "bow".......which you say represents a "weapon"...........

But NO ARROWS.

Then you say that the Gospel represents the ARROWS????????

But the rider on the white horse ONLY has a BOW......NO arrows??????????

You neglected to answer this

If, as you say, the Gospel is the ARROWS, and the rider on the white horse ONLY has a bow, and NO ARROWS, then how does the Gospel go forth, being that it is the ARROWS?

He, the rider,  only has a BOW......

No ARROWS.....No Gospel!

I got this one.

You have clearly inserted the word only.

And don't tell me that that horse can't be wearing the bumper of a 57 Chevy because we can tell by the timing that 1957 is before the wrath and the horse could have time traveled, got the bumper mounted and traveled back to 32 AD to begin the ride. Or the white horse could have waited until 1957 to get the bumper mounted as the human population increased. There would be no use carrying that bumper until 1957, when the need arose.

And that takes care of that.

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

You stated:  

"We have a bow (toxon) to represent a weapon, but no arrows: the GOSPEL is the arrows."

You need to explain this one.

You say that the first seal is the Gospel going forth. 

The rider on the horse has a "bow".......which you say represents a "weapon"...........

But NO ARROWS.

Then you say that the Gospel represents the ARROWS????????

But the rider on the white horse ONLY has a BOW......NO arrows??????????

You neglected to answer this

If, as you say, the Gospel is the ARROWS, and the rider on the white horse ONLY has a bow, and NO ARROWS, then how does the Gospel go forth, being that it is the ARROWS?

He, the rider,  only has a BOW......

No ARROWS.....No Gospel!

The gospel is not something that is SEEN! it is words spoken, it is words written. It is an plan. A missionary could show up in a foreign land with nothing but himself. But He can certainly spread the gospel because he possesses it INSIDE. He can PREACH, He can TEACH. He can overthrow kingdoms with the words of the gospel.

Did Paul go out with a metal sword? Did he drive a tank? Did he have air cover? Did he wear metal armor? Did he take any kind of visible weapon? No, he took THE GOSPEL. He conquered everything that came against Him.

I think you just want to argue.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

I got this one.

You have clearly inserted the word only.

And don't tell me that that horse can't be wearing the bumper of a 57 Chevy because we can tell by the timing that 1957 is before the wrath and the horse could have time traveled, got the bumper mounted and traveled back to 32 AD to begin the ride. Or the white horse could have waited until 1957 to get the bumper mounted as the human population increased. There would be no use carrying that bumper until 1957, when the need arose.

And that takes care of that.

I inserted "only" for your benefit - because others were inserting it without knowing it. I don't need it. I know God did not say it or mean it. He left Himself open to include some history with the future. Why fight it? It is TRUTH.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Let's refine even further.

We have a voice like thunder guaranteeing the trembling of the unbelievers.

We have the voice saying come which represents a command.

We see John looking which represents John witnessing the conquering and ultimate victory.

We see that white horse was "before" John which gives our timing.

We see that rider rode out instead of in which represents the out pouring of the spirit.

Now we have ten witnesses which doubles 5 meaning that John received a double portion.

There that out to do it. That was easy enough. There should be no questions now.

You are just clowning around - writing nonsense for fun.

I understand: you cannot defeat TRUTH with good bible exegesis, so you are left with clowning around. Got it.

Edited June 27, 2019 by iamlamad

[JoeCanada]

29 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

 

(JoeCanada....response to iamlamad)

You stated:  (iamlamad stated)

"We have a bow (toxon) to represent a weapon, but no arrows: the GOSPEL is the arrows."

(JoeCanada response).......

You need to explain this one.

You say that the first seal is the Gospel going forth. 

The rider on the horse has a "bow".......which you say represents a "weapon"...........

But NO ARROWS.

Then you say that the Gospel represents the ARROWS????????

But the rider on the white horse ONLY has a BOW......NO arrows??????????

You neglected to answer this

If, as you say, the Gospel is the ARROWS, and the rider on the white horse ONLY has a bow, and NO ARROWS, then how does the Gospel go forth, being that it is the ARROWS?

He, the rider,  only has a BOW......

No ARROWS.....No Gospel!

 

Response from iamlamad;

The gospel is not something that is SEEN! it is words spoken, it is words written. It is an plan. A missionary could show up in a foreign land with nothing but himself. But He can certainly spread the gospel because he possesses it INSIDE. He can PREACH, He can TEACH. He can overthrow kingdoms with the words of the gospel.Did Paul go out with a metal sword? Did he drive a tank? Did he have air cover? Did he wear metal armor? Did he take any kind of visible weapon? No, he took THE GOSPEL. He conquered everything that came against Him.

I think you just want to argue.

 

Again, you have plainly stated that the "ARROWS" are the Gospel. 

You need to explain where the rider on the WHITE HORSE gets the "Arrows" from, which you claim is the Gospel .

This is obviously your imagination running wild. There are no "ARROWS' with the rider of the white horse, only a bow.

I don't "just want to argue".

I'm calling you out on your nonsense of "adding words or ideas that are not presented in Scripture."

Like where you state that " the search in Rev 5 has been ongoing since Adam. When one search ended, another one immediately began".

Hogwash! 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

You are just clowning around - writing nonsense for fun.

I understand: you cannot defeat TRUTH with good bible exegesis, so you are left with clowning around. Got it.

Hey iamlamad,

I just wanted you to see what it is like reading some of your posts. You let imagination rule over scriptural truth. You have no foundation to support many of your posts beyond what you can imagine. It's tough to understand how you think changing the meaning of words helps you case. You say you got it, and that's what I was hoping for. All the best to you brother in your quest to seek the truth.

[iamlamad]

47 minutes ago, The Light said:

Hey iamlamad,

I just wanted you to see what it is like reading some of your posts. You let imagination rule over scriptural truth. You have no foundation to support many of your posts beyond what you can imagine. It's tough to understand how you think changing the meaning of words helps you case. You say you got it, and that's what I was hoping for. All the best to you brother in your quest to seek the truth.

You have things backwards. I have the truth of the written word. But your theories are so far from the truth, what I write SEEMS foreign to you. I call this the preconceived glasses syndrome. You have preconceptions you IMAGINE are truth. I get it.

What you are missing: God chose to show John all about THE BOOK. It was not covered in any scripture anywhere. But since the book is so important and since it will ultimately get Satan kicked off his throne as the god of this planet, God wanted us to know about it, so He showed John the book: In the father's right hand. The problem was, it was there when Jesus left heaven to take on human flesh. And it was still there 32 years later when Jesus ascended, sent the Holy Spirit down, and then took the book from the hand of the Father. He began opening the seals in the year of our Lord, 32 AD or there about. The exact year is not important. What is important is that the first seal can have NOTHING to do with anything in our future.

Perhaps you just don't like it that God chose to show John some history before He got to future events. You will have to take that up with HIM.

Meanwhile, when I see people writing nonsense that cannot be backed up by the word of God - things like the first seal is the Antichrist - I will challenge them.

I understand you can't show me the errors in my posts by good exegesis. So you just say I am wrong with no proof.  You lie and say I change the meaning of words. I probably use Strong's more than any of you. You claim I have no foundation, yet you KNOW I quote scriptures over and over. The problem is, you don't like what those scriptures say!

Case in point: John saw a search take place for one worthy to take the book. Some imagine it was not a real search. It does not mater. John wept because it ended in failure. I have given the reason for that failure over and over. None of you seem to believe what I write, but NO ONE Has come up with another reason why a search for one worthy to open the book ended in failure.

I have said over and over that this passage shows TIMING and the movement of time. There was a time when Jesus was NOT WORTHY to open the book. That is an absolute fact - and it is why "no man was found worthy." Then in the next search Jesus WAS found: why? Because He had just BECOME worthy. See? It is the movement of time.

Now, show me here where I have changed the meaning of any word. If you don't believe this, they why don't each of you show me the REAL reason why this search ended in failure. In other words, put your money where your mouth is - so to speak. Prove me wrong with good exegesis.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Hey iamlamad,

I just wanted you to see what it is like reading some of your posts. You let imagination rule over scriptural truth. You have no foundation to support many of your posts beyond what you can imagine. It's tough to understand how you think changing the meaning of words helps you case. You say you got it, and that's what I was hoping for. All the best to you brother in your quest to seek the truth.

You have only words. Back up your words: PROVE me wrong with good exegesis! Other wise we will all know you are a fake.