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Heb 13:8

The context of 1 Thess 5:1

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

chêtsîy, khay-tsee'; from H2673; the half or middle:—half, middle, mid(-night), midst, part, two parts. What is 1260 when compared to 2520 (a 7 year prophetic period of time)? It is HALF. What is 42 months when compared to 84 months (a 7 year prophetic period of time)? It is HALF. What is 3 1/2 years compared to 7 years? Again, it is HALF. How many times must God reveal that the week is divided into two equal halves? We have SEVEN proofs. 

I have studied the word, and like I stated in the midst as per my studies doesn't have to be the exact middle, but that isn't the point anyway, he reneges on his Peace Deals in the Middle of the Week bu stopping the Oblation (honoring of Jesus) and the SACRIFICE to cease. If 1/3 turn to Jesus and 2/3 don't I think you have a Temple full of strife, those Jews who are there worshiping Jesus and the other Jews who still serve the Law and are probably Sacrificing there. The False Prophet places an Image of the Beast (E.U. President) in the Temple, I think hes mocking the Christians who probably placed an Image of Jesus in the Temple or hes trying to do what Jason did via Hellenizing the Jews under Antiochus Epiphanes. 

So the AoD happens at the 1290 like the Bible says, the Beast then STOPS the worshiping of Jesus and the Sacrificing of Animals when he Conquers Jerusalem at the 1260. So its irrelevant in all reality. What you can't explain is how the 1290 is n the Middle of the Week which is the 1260. 

 

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Daniel 12 is very clear, the AoD comes 30 days BEFORE (1290) the exact Middle of the week which is the 1260. All you have to do is go read it for yourself.   That is your THEORY of what Daniel is telling us. Most commentators disagree.

 

I don't do theories and say its of God thank you., when I do theories I say its my ideas. And I do not care what men say either.

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Where IS the AOD in Daniel 12? I submit that it is the starting point in verse 1, but not listed. It is the starting point of the 3.5 years, the starting point of the 1290 day count and the starting point of the 1335 day count.

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

I agree that Verse 1 is that TIME of Troubles and that Verse 4 ends it, only Jesus felt sorry that Daniel did not understand so he expounded the understandings with MORE DETAIL !! 

There is not 1290 day count, you have just misunderstood the passages Jesus spoke. The very first understanding was Jesus telling Daniel there would be 1260 Days from the time the holy peoples are SCATTERED until the Second Coming, then he gives us two more EVENTS and the number of days from EACH EVENT until the same SECOND COMING.

I tried to explain how the Holy Spirit gave me this but you seemingly have blinders on or tunnel vision, it happens when we have long held understandings at times. 

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 

So Daniel says he did not understand then asks again, GET THIS.....How long shall it be until the END OF THESE THINGS !! Then Jesus/Gabriel tells Daniel to go his way these things are sealed up until then end, then he says MANY shall be purified and made white, and tried, but the WICKED shall do wickedly and none will understand, this is Jesus speaking of the Jews REPENTING during the 70th Week, but many during this time will not understand but will follow Wickedness. But then Jesus/Gabriel tries to give Daniel ONE FINAL NUGGET of understanding, and what was Daniel's question ? How long shall it be until the END OF THESE THINGS ?

 Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, AND the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

From the time the Daily Sacrifice is taken away seems to be by the BEAST at the 1260, and we know who Conquers and scatters the holy people ABOVE in verses 6 and 7. Then we get the AND the Abomination of Desolation is SET UP, there will be 1290 days [UNTIL THE END OF THESE WONDERS]. 

All anyone has to do is use COMMON SENSE, please tell me how the holy peoples can be scattered after the Anti-Christ has SCATTERED/Conquered the holy peoples !! It can not happen, once he conquers them hes going to start killing them, thus the Matthew 24 plea by Jesus to FLEE JUDEA when they see the AoD. Its obvious what comes first, and its obvious there will be 1290 days from the time the AoD is set up until the END OF THESE THINGS which is what Daniel ASKED AGAIN in Verse 8. Thus we get a totally DIFFERENT EVENT, the AoD than the scattering of the Holy peoples. 

It amuses me why ANYONE thinks that ANYTHING is Prophesied about the things that will happen into the 1000 year reign and it having anything to do with the AoD. Then the 1335 is 1335 days until the SAME QUESTION..........When will these WONDERS END. At the 1335 there will be a Blessing Coming. WHAT IS IT ? Its the Two-witnesses showing up. 

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Notice that this is NOT a "from" "to" statement: there is no "to." The "from" will be from the AoD that stops the daily sacrifices but the "to", not mentioned will be the 1260 days as proved by Revelation. However, there is a secondary count that adds 30 days to the 1260 taking the reader to 30 days PAST the end of the 70th week.  Will that be the day Jesus returns in power and glory? Is there TIME between Rev. 16 - the 7th vial that ends the week - and chapter 19 after the marriage and supper when Jesus returns? I suspect there will be 30 days of time. Again note, Daniel does not tell us what happens at the end of these 1290 days.  This is very simple, but you have complicated it with imagination. Start counting from the exact midpoint - Where the 1260 day count begins, and where then 42 month count begins (In Rev. 11) but instead of counting to 1260 days, count 30 more days. Is that so difficult? What actually happens in Rev. 17 and 18, AFTER the week has finished? Stuff happens - that takes TIME.

And there did not HAVE TO BE, they had a far different style of writing then, the Hebrew Language had 4000 some odd words and no Vowels. The QUESTION asked by Daniel WAS..........How long shall it be until the END OF THESE THINGS !! He REPEATED the question that the Angel asked Jesus in Verse 6, thus THE ANSWER in verses 11 and 12 is about HOW LONG IT WILL BE FROM THE END of the 1290 Event and 1335 Event !! 

The FROM and TO is there, you just are not seeing it because of they way it is written, the FROM is the Numbered of Days it is unto the END OF THESE WONDERS, which is the question, just like in verse 6. Stop trying to understand their weird way of writing in full, its just a DIFFERENT TIME and an ODD LANGUAGE.

Your understanding makes ZERO SENSE here brother, the END OF THESE WONDERS is the Second Coming, not into the 1000 year reign, you say this because you are not understanding what this actually says. The AoD happens BEFORE the holy peoples are scattered. You thinking the Beasts is going to just allow the holy peoples to escape after he conquers them also does no jibe with reality brother. 

Another reason the Holy Spirit gave this to me, the Beast dies AFTER the Two-witness thus they must show up BEFORE the Anti-Christ CONQUERS and SCATTERS the holy peoples at the 1260, thus the BLESSING comes at the 1335, not 1335 days after the 1260, because Jesus comes at the end of the 1260, ALL Blessings will be upon us by then, why would anyone be BLESSED to get 75 days into the 1000 year reign ? That makes ZERO SENSE !!

Again, one must GO BACK to the verse where the ORIGINAL QUESTION was asked, How long shall it be until the END OF THESE WONDERS, then its explained, there will be 1260 Days from the time the holy peoples POWER is SCATTERED (They are Conquered) until the END OF THESE WONDERS which was he QUESTION !! The QUESTION WAS ASKED AGAIN !!! Thus when you get the 1290 mention and the 1335 mention they are also EVENTS and a time of reference until THE WONDERS END !! 

Look, I am not going to berate anyone for not seeing this, its been given to me by the Holy Spirit and all are not given the same things. And we are told about the 1290 its the AoD, it comes 30 days before the 1260, thus you/we are GIVEN A CLUE but many it seems don't even see it because they are looking in the wrong direction.

Rev. 17 and 18 ARE NOT Real time events brother, Rev. ch. 16 ENDS this age on earth, Rev. 17 happens in Rev. ch. 6, and Rev. 18 is Babylon (the WHOLE WORLD) getting hit with the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments from Rev. ch. 6 to Rev. chapter 16. 

Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses Ministry, its not a part of the Chronological Order of the book of Revelation.

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The 1335 is a BLESSING !! Its the Two-witnesses showing up in Jerusalem.  WHAT? The two witnesses show up when the man of sin enters Jerusalem, 3 1/2 days before the AoD. The 1335 days will terminate 75 days after the end of the week. It could be the official beginning of the 1000 years. It could be the temple is cleansed. It could be the parable of the tares. Note: EVERY count of the 3 1/2 year period of time, whether given in days, months or years, is ALWAYS given for the last half of the week. 

Explain unto me then why they both have "OFFICES" of 1260 Days and ONE (Two-witnesses) die at the 2nd Woe and the OTHER, the Beast dies at the 7th Vial. Now please explain unto me how both the Two-witnesses and the Beast show up at he SAME TIME but the Two-witnesses DIE FIRST, yet they both are supposed to be in their "OFFICES" for 1260 Days. There is NO WAY you can explain that unless the Two-witnesses not only DIE FIRST but also SHOW UP FIRST. Its simple math brother !! The Anti-Christ nor the Two Witnesses show up 3 1/2 days before the AoD, The BEAST shows up 30 days after the AoD, and the Two-witnesses show up 75 days BEFORE the holy peoples are SCATTERED and 45 days before the AoD happens. That is why the DIE FIRST !!

Nothing here goes into the 1000 year reign, it all about the QUESTION !! WHEN WILL THESE WONDERS END !! On all three of these NUMBERED OF DAYS EVENTS that was the pointed question !! Daniel even ASKS the Question that Gabriel asked Jesus AGAIN thus we get two more NUMBER OF DAYS EVENTS, thus we understand that THE QUESTION pertains unto all three sets of NUMBERS !!

The Two-witnesses 1260 days starts BEFORE the Day of the Lord just as Malachi 4:5-6 says..........Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So the Anti-Christ is RELEASED to go forth on the Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath) which comes at the FIRST SEAL. But as we see, the Two-witnesses SHOW UP BEFORE the DOTL !! 

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

IT SHALL BE 1290 DAYS UNTIL WHAT ? Look above in verse 6-7.  If we study all the end times scriptures, we know that the IDF that Israel is so proud of will be destroyed. Many nations will come against Israel. 

 

Israel is Conquered, so what is your point ? Everyone knows that sir. The European Anti-Christ will Conquer Israel AND the MANY other nations of the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR) and thus become the LAST BEAST and the footprint of the Beast will match almost exactly the Roman Empire footprint. Read Daniel 11:40-43 to see who he Conquers, all of North Africa, Israel and the MSR Nations, which along with the European Union is the EXACT SAME FOOTPRINT as the Fourth Beast !! Google the Roman Empire Map and the European Neighborhood Policy Map which is a REAL ENTITY with a 7 Year Agreement AS WE SPEAK with the E.U. When the Beast Conquers Israel and THE MANY they currently have Agreements with the LAST BEAST wll look just like the Fourth Beast. BELOW is the nations:

The European Neighborhood Policy governs the EU's relations with 16 of the its closest Eastern and Southern Neighbors. To the South: Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Palestine*, Syria** and Tunisia....I will leave off the East Partners.

These are the nations the BEAST Conquers, THE MANY in Daniel 11:40-42, the MANY in Daniel 8:25 and Daniel 9:27 !! Europe currently has 7 Year Deals with these nations thus he AFFIRMS or reups this AGREEMENT/Covenant when he comes to power, then RENEGES and Conquers these very nations in the Middle of the Week. 

So of course he Conquers Israel, the holy peoples. Bit not the Jews who REPENTED !! God protects them in Petra.

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

then it was explained that from the time the power pf the holy peoples are SCATTERED (Which means Conquered) there will be 1260 Days left unto all of these Wonders end (by Jesus/Messiah's Second Coming/Return to save Israel).   Only in your imagination! That is not at all what Daniel is telling us. The end of the matter will be at Jesus' coming. HE will end the destruction of Israel taking place. The power of the people being shattered is at the end when Jesus comes. 

Sorry, but I will stick with the 1260 days from the AoD to the end of the week, and then another 30 days added to perhaps His coming, and another 45 days added to some other great event - my guess is, the start of the Millennial reign of Christ.

I do have a question: how can one person get so many things wrong? 

Wrong, you clearly do not understand this brother. You stick to your men's traditions, I will go with God who stated it would be locked up until the End Times, thus I choose to SEEK the facts, not other men's understandings. 

You need to ask yourself that question, then answer yourself, with the Men's Tradition, just like the Pharisees. Stay in the dark and you wont have to worry about sleeping. 

 

Edited by Revelation Man

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2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

 

 

Another reason the Holy Spirit gave this to me, the Beast dies AFTER the Two-witness thus they must show up BEFORE the Anti-Christ CONQUERS and SCATTERS the holy peoples at the 1260, thus the BLESSING comes at the 1335, not 1335 days after the 11260, because Jesus comes at the end of the 1260, ALL Blessing will be upon us by then, why would anyone be BLESSED to get 75 days into the 1000 year reign ? That makes ZERO SENSE !!

 

 

Hi Revman...

“ How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days…”  Dan 12:12

So......How does the Holy Spirit explain this blessing to you?.....

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Posted (edited)
On 7/12/2018 at 7:26 AM, iamlamad said:

Wrong yet again. Why not just take John at His word? His wrath begins at the 6th seal  - right where John tells us.  The first seal is the CHURCH, sent out with the GOSPEL, around 32 AD. You are thousands of years off!

No, John says NO SUCH THING, its just you not understanding the prophetic uttering's there.  Does John say that or is he relaying what the PEOPLE HE SAW IN THE VISION SAYS ? Ohhhhhhhhhh I see !! 

Now GRASP THIS PICTURE/Vision John saw. It is STATING when these people on earth John saw or UNDERSTOOD they were in Gods Wrath NOWHERE does it say Gods Wrath begins at the SIXTH SEAL, that is just you and others not grasping the full picture John painted. HERE IS THE TRUTH BELOW :

The FIRST SEAL brings forth Gods Wrath via the Anti-Christ who takes Peace from the earth via WARS !! So the first Four Seals/Horses bring devastation upon Mankind..........BUT THEY ARE ONLY SEEN AS WARS BY THE PEOPLE.........Why would anyone think that these Wars were any different than WW1 or WW2 to begin with ? They just see another World War or maybe these fanatical Anarchist types are with this Beast and think all Religions should be destroyed, so they are all a party to this Beasts actions. (The 5th Seal is just a TESTAMENT to Gods Anger at the Martyr of the Saints) THENNNNNN The SUPERNATURAL EVENTS START and thus the people of the world SEE THE PASSAGES/Scriptures BELOW! And it hits them, We are in the Wrath of God, you know the God they heretofore did not BELIEVE IN, but the Sun and Moon gives not is lights, the STARS fall from heaven and you have a GREAT EARTHQUAKE and THEN even the biggest Atheists UNDERSTAND Oh my, we are in the WRATH OF THE LAMB !! 

So all you see is a VISION of when they UNDERSTAND that they are in the WRATH OF God !! And you don't grasp this for some reason, its OBVIOUS TO ME, you are looking at the Vision and misinterpreting what it means. God doesn't start anything in the Middle, God has PERFECT SYMMETRY !! 

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

John NEVER SAYS this is when Gods Wrath starts, he just conveys what the people IN THE VISION SAY !! BOOM !! And they say only that the Wrath of God has COME UPON THEM !! They do not say when it started because they don't understand the bible like we do,if they did they wouldn't be serving THE BEAST !! But they do know the Joel 2:31 Prophecy because it is such a famous passage, they understand these SUPERNATURAL EVENTS were foretold, so its like OH MY !! Its true, Gods Wrath is here, BUT what they don't know, AND what all Christians SHOULD KNOW, is that the Wars of the Four Horses were RELEASED BY THE LAMB !! Thus it was also Gods Wrath !! But people actually take this Vision where John sees these people making a FACTUAL STATEMENT, and they then twist it as to where God starts his Wrath in the MIDDLE of the Seals, and it makes me laugh out loud, God is a perfect God and that means perfect SYMMETRY at all times. The Lamb Opens the FIRST SEAL but its not Gods Wrath, that is just so mind boggling unto me !! 

Then you come up with the First Seal was opened 2000 years ago, Oh brother. Come on man !!

 

Edited by Revelation Man

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21 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Revman...

“ How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days…”  Dan 12:12

So......How does the Holy Spirit explain this blessing to you?.....

Hello brother.

Via the 1290 having to come BEFORE the 1260. You see once I understood all of these numbers were DAYS until these Wonders Ended (Second Coming), then I understood the AoD had to come BEFORE the holy peoples are SCATTERED......AND that made perfect sense because Israel/Jews have to have time to Flee Judea. 

Thus it hit me, the 1335 also has to come BEFORE the 1260 and even BEFORE the 1290, so now I had to figure out what the 1335 was. What comes BEFORE the Day of the (1260) Lord, I asked myself because that is what it really amounts to, because the 1260 is the Day of the Lord Gods Wrath. And of course many people here know one of my favorite scriptures is Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. 

So the Holy Spirit, via a passage I understand all to well, kind of brought it all home to me, it tied all my other understanding together. I knew that God sends Elijah (Two-witnesses) back BEFORE the Dreadful day of the Lord, and thus I know the Two-witnesses die BEFORE the Beast dies so they must show up BEFORE the Beast does as per his office as THE BEAST. And thus I knew Israel had to REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord, but did that all fit ? 

Well of course it fit, the 1335 is thus when the Two-witnesses show up 75 Days before the Beast thus they die at the 2nd Woe and the BEAST dies at the 7th Vial (end of 3rd Woe) which of course must be a 75 day gap also. Also I thought to myself, what could be a GREATER BLESSING unto Israel than God sending the Two-witnesses/Elijah to RESTORE Israel unto God !! 

It just all fit, that is how you know its of the Holy Spirit brother. Every thing fit like a 500 piece puzzle. God Bless

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1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

No, John says NO SUCH THING, its just you not understanding the prophetic uttering's there.  Does John say that or is he relaying what the PEOPLE HE SAW IN THE VISION SAYS ? Ohhhhhhhhhh I see !! 

Now GRASP THIS PICTURE/Vision John saw. It is STATING when these people on earth John saw or UNDERSTOOD they were in Gods Wrath NOWHERE does it say Gods Wrath begins at the SIXTH SEAL, that is just you and others not grasping the full picture John painted. HERE IS THE TRUTH :

The FIRST SEAL brings forth Gods Wrath via the Anti-Christ who takes Peace from the earth via WARS !! So the first Four Seals/Horses bring devastation upon Mankind..........BUT THEY ARE ONLY SEEN AS WARS BY THE PEOPLE.........Why would anyone think that these Wars were any different than WW1 or WW2 to begin with ? They just see another World War or maybe these fanatical Anarchist types are with this Beast and thinks all Religions should be destroyed, so they are all party to this Beasts actions. (The 5th Seal is just a TESTAMENT to Gods Anger at the Martyr of the Saints) THENNNNNN The SUPERNATURAL EVENTS START and thus the people of the world SEE THE PASSAGES/Scriptures BELOW !! And it hits them, We are in the Wrath of God, you know the God they heretofore did not BELIEVE IN, but the Sun and Moon gives not is lights, the STARS fall from heaven and you have a GREAT EARTHQUAKE and THEN even the biggest Atheists UNDERSTAND Oh my, we are in the WRATH OF THE LAMB !! 

So all you see is a VISION of when they UNDERSTAND they are in the WRATH OF God !! And you don't grasp this for some reason, its OBVIOUS TO ME, you are looking at the Vision and misinterpreting what it means. God doesn't start anything in the Middle, God has PERFECT SYMMETRY !! 

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

John NEVER SAYS this is when Gods Wrath starts, he just conveys what the people IN THE VISION SAY !!! BOOM !! And they say only that the Wrath of God has COME UPON THEM !! They do not say when it started because they don't understand the bible like we do, they do know the Joel 2:31 Prophecy because it is so famous a passage, they understand these SUPERNATURAL EVENTS were foretold so its like OH MY !! Its true, Gods Wrath is here, BUT what they don'y know, AND what all Christians SHOULD KNOW, is that the Wars of the Four Horses were RELEASED BY THE LAMB !! It is also Gods Wrath !! But people actually take this Vision where John sees these people making a FACTUAL STATEMENT, and they then twist it as to where God starts his Wrath in the MIDDLE of the Seals, and it makes me laugh out loud, God is a perfect God and that means SYMMETRY at all times. The Lamb Opens the FIRST SEAL but its not Gods Wrath, that is just so mind boggling unto me !! 

Then you come up with the First Seal was opened 2000 years ago, Oh brother.

 

Hi Revman....

It is not because of the events of Seals 1-5 that people will so terrified of God that they will seek to hide from Him after the opening of Seal 6.

If God's wrath had been being poured out upon the earth before that point, the people of the earth would have run and hid long before then. It is not until after the opening of the Sixth Seal, with the onset of the clear and distinct signs caused by God in the sky above (Revelation 6:12b,13), and with the appearance of God on His throne (6:16)—viewable, I believe, by everyone on earth—that people will have no doubt that God is exceedingly angry and is ready to dispense His wrath upon the earth. This wrath will not have yet occurred; it will be about to occur.

Here is an analogy. A couple plans to get married, so many preparations take place—sending out of invitations, buying the wedding dress and the tuxedo, choosing the wedding participants, decorating for the reception, etc. A friend of the couple observes everything that is going on; however, it is not until the actual wedding day, walking into the church, that he says to himself, "The day of their wedding has come." The wedding has not been taking place prior to that day; rather, all of the preparations are about to culminate in a marriage ceremony. The guest knows that he will be (not already has been) a witness of the wedding about to happen.

Similarly, once everyone observes the distinct signs in the sky, different from anything that ever has taken place in human history, and including the observation of Jesus in earth's atmosphere, they will know that the wrath of God is about to be doled out upon them. It is only then that they will run and hide in utter terror.

The events described after the openings of Seals 1-5 will be, primarily, a result of Satan's increasing intervention into world affairs, with governments fighting, changing, and collapsing relatively quickly, along with an escalating persecution and killing of Christians and Jews. With everything in such chaos, it will be very difficult or impossible to curb great famines and plagues, which will get completely out of control. During this period, I believe that God gradually will remove His protective hand from the earth, and natural disasters, such as great earthquakes, will become more and more commonplace.

Those people who will be slain and their blood shed after the opening of the 5th Seal are saved believers (who have not yet been raptured), and they will cry out to God to judge the inhabitants of the earth and to avenge their blood:

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" (Revelation 6:9,10)

They will have been slain "because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God" (20:4b). Subsequently, God will emerge from His dwelling place in heaven to punish the people of the earth, via His wrath, and it will be principally to avenge the blood of those slain upon the earth:

See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed upon her; she will conceal her slain no longer.(Isaiah 26:21)

[He has sent me] to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn.... (Isaiah 61:2)

For the LORD has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion's cause. (Isaiah 34:8)

For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come. (Isaiah 63:4)

God's judgment of the earth will not already have taken place, nor even yet have begun, during the events of Seals 1-5. It will be imminent with the opening of the Sixth Seal, and it will commence after the opening of the Seventh Seal. The souls of saints, killed during the Great Tribulation, will cry out for God to avenge their blood by judging the inhabitants of the earth.

Consequently, when God hears this cry, He will respond with vengeance (which has the same root as avenge), on behalf of the saints and of Israel (which will devastated throughout the Great Tribulation period). This vengeance will take place during the subsequent "day of vengeance" or "day of His wrath" (Isaiah 34:8, 61:2, 63:4; Revelation 6:17).

This "day of vengeance" will encompass the Trumpet Judgments, which will be the initial wave of God's wrath and probably will last for a year: the seventh year of the final seven years—that is, the last "day" of the 70th Week. Then the Bowl Judgments will be the final wave of His wrath, lasting for 30 days, and culminating in the Battle of Armageddon. The "day of vengeance" will be the initial, year-long portion of the Day of the Lord period, which then will continue, throughout the Millennium, as the most glorious time on earth.

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55 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

It is not because of the events of Seals 1-5 that people will so terrified of God that they will seek to hide from Him after the opening of Seal 6.

True, which makes my point, they are in the Lambs Wrath via the Wars where the Anti-Christ takes Peace from the Earth and brings Death and Sickness upon all mankind. But they only UNDERSTAND THAT they are in the Day of the Lord when the the Supernatural Events foretold in Joel 2:31 come to pass. Their understanding of when the DOTL is upon them and the actual facts are not the same thing. The VISION only tells us what THEIR UNDERSTANDING is, but the facts are that Jesus is OPENING EVERYONE OF THE SEALS !! The DOTL is a 3.5 year period, it runs from the First Seal unto the 7th Vial. 

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

If God's wrath had been being poured out upon the earth before that point, the people of the earth would have run and hid long before then. It is not until after the opening of the Sixth Seal, with the onset of the clear and distinct signs caused by God in the sky above (Revelation 6:12b,13), and with the appearance of God on His throne (6:16)—viewable, I believe, by everyone on earth—that people will have no doubt that God is exceedingly angry and is ready to dispense His wrath upon the earth. This wrath will not have yet occurred; it will be about to occur.

 

Again, you like him are not grasping the fact that a WAR is only seen by men as a WAR, even if Jesus RELEASED IT and the Anti-Christ upon mankind. And those who give their lives unto Christ DO UNDERSTAND what is happening, thus they REPENT, that is what also happens to the 1/3 of the Jews who repent. The men on earth who fear when they SEE the Supernatural events, did not FEAR God BEFORE because they do not understand who the Anti-Christ is to start with, they are mostly Atheists, they don't believe in FAIRY TALE'S !!!

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Here is an analogy. A couple plans to get married, so many preparations take place—sending out of invitations, buying the wedding dress and the tuxedo, choosing the wedding participants, decorating for the reception, etc. A friend of the couple observes everything that is going on; however, it is not until the actual wedding day, walking into the church, that he says to himself, "The day of their wedding has come." The wedding has not been taking place prior to that day; rather, all of the preparations are about to culminate in a marriage ceremony. The guest knows that he will be (not already has been) a witness of the wedding about to happen.

Similarly, once everyone observes the distinct signs in the sky, different from anything that ever has taken place in human history, and including the observation of Jesus in earth's atmosphere, they will know that the wrath of God is about to be doled out upon them. It is only then that they will run and hide in utter terror.

The analogy doesn't hold water at all brother, everyone knows the Wedding has to be the Groom and the Bride. 

The better analogy would be THIS BELOW:

All the people of the whole earth are led int an ENORMOUS BUILDING with a Billion rooms, 1/3 of the rooms have Carbon Monoxide blowing out of the vents thus 1/3 of all the people die. The all of the sudden the other 2/3 of the rooms starts flashing with red lights and signs that say, WARNING YOU ARE ABOUT TO BE GASSED !! They then cry out, OM MY, we are being GASSED !!

Guess what, they were already being gassed, but they only now realized it.  

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

The events described after the openings of Seals 1-5 will be, primarily, a result of Satan's increasing intervention into world affairs, with governments fighting, changing, and collapsing relatively quickly, along with an escalating persecution and killing of Christians and Jews. With everything in such chaos, it will be very difficult or impossible to curb great famines and plagues, which will get completely out of control. During this period, I believe that God gradually will remove His protective hand from the earth, and natural disasters, such as great earthquakes, will become more and more commonplace.

 

Jesus is RELEASING the Beast onto the world, he is OPENING THE SEALS !! Its the Lambs Wrath. Sure Satan is ANGRY when he gets cast out of Heaven, but God CASTS him out of Heaven unto earth and also RELEASES the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering, its Jesus' or the Lambs Wrath !! It just is. Just like when the Prince of Persia (Apollyon) wanted Persia to remain the STRONGHOLD, God via Micheal ORDERED him to allow Greece to win and when he RESISTED, Micheal was sent and the battled for 21 days, until Alexander the Great defeated Persia, thus Apollyon became the Prince of Grecia. 

Gods orders are the order of the day. Satan might be angry, but God/Jesus is orchestrating everything !! God has Raptured the Church pre 70th Week, there is no protective hand anymore by this time, except for the Jews (144,000) in Petra, even the REMNANT CHURCH is Martyred. 

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

 Those people who will be slain and their blood shed after the opening of the 5th Seal are saved believers (who have not yet been raptured), and they will cry out to God to judge the inhabitants of the earth and to avenge their blood:

 

They are killed during the First Four Seals (Four Horses), thus the 5th Seal is only a TESTIMONY unto Gods Anger here. 

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" (Revelation 6:9,10)

They will have been slain "because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God" (20:4b). Subsequently, God will emerge from His dwelling place in heaven to punish the people of the earth, via His wrath, and it will be principally to avenge the blood of those slain upon the earth:

Gods Anger keeps building all along the way, the Trumpets are WORSE than the Seals and the Vials are worse than the Trumpets. The First Seal starts Gods Wrath, the 7th Vial ENDS IT !!

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed upon her; she will conceal her slain no longer.(Isaiah 26:21)

[He has sent me] to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn.... (Isaiah 61:2)

For the LORD has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion's cause. (Isaiah 34:8)

For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come. (Isaiah 63:4)

These verses FIT at any point God brings His Wrath, so I don;r get the point brother, we know God;s Wrath cones full. Gods Wrath/Anger does not come from the Martyred Saints only, it is build up over 1000's of Years. Go read Genesis 15, the reason God could not give Israel the PROMISED LAND was that the Canaanites and all of those tribes had not yet sinned against God t the point where His wrath was filled up, thus Israel went unto Egypt until Gods Wrath against those Nations had COME FULL !! Then and only then could God judge them. According to Leviticus the continued in their sins and sons and daughters went with fathers an mothers, there was Beastiality, and of course the SACRIFICED their kids to Molech. So Gods Wrath has to COME FULL, its not just bout the Martyrs of the Saints, the Romans killed many, many Saints, its about the SINS of all the world coming full. 

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

God's judgment of the earth will not already have taken place, nor even yet have begun, during the events of Seals 1-5. It will be imminent with the opening of the Sixth Seal, and it will commence after the opening of the Seventh Seal. The souls of saints, killed during the Great Tribulation, will cry out for God to avenge their blood by judging the inhabitants of the earth.

 

Gods Judgment starts with the First Seal brother. Jesus OPENS THE SEALS !! No use rehashing the 6th Seal I have explained it. They want vengeance, but that doesn't mean the Wrath of God is not the First Seal !! The Disciples want Vengeance also. 

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

 Consequently, when God hears this cry, He will respond with vengeance (which has the same root as avenge), on behalf of the saints and of Israel (which will devastated throughout the Great Tribulation period). This vengeance will take place during the subsequent "day of vengeance" or "day of His wrath" (Isaiah 34:8, 61:2, 63:4; Revelation 6:17).

 

No, the Wrath of God is from the First Seal all the way t the 7th Vial, the Plagues just get progressively worse against Mankind and the Plagues become Supernatural, but all of the Seals, Trumpets and Vials are Gods Wrath. 

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

 This "day of vengeance" will encompass the Trumpet Judgments, which will be the initial wave of God's wrath and probably will last for a year: the seventh year of the final seven years—that is, the last "day" of the 70th Week. Then the Bowl Judgments will be the final wave of His wrath, lasting for 30 days, and culminating in the Battle of Armageddon. The "day of vengeance" will be the initial, year-long portion of the Day of the Lord period, which then will continue, throughout the Millennium, as the most glorious time on earth.

Jesus is OPENING THE SEALS..........God stats NOTHING in the Middle Brother, God Bless.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, John says NO SUCH THING, its just you not understanding the prophetic uttering's there.  Does John say that or is he relaying what the PEOPLE HE SAW IN THE VISION SAYS ? Ohhhhhhhhhh I see !! 

Now GRASP THIS PICTURE/Vision John saw. It is STATING when these people on earth John saw or UNDERSTOOD they were in Gods Wrath NOWHERE does it say Gods Wrath begins at the SIXTH SEAL, that is just you and others not grasping the full picture John painted. HERE IS THE TRUTH BELOW :

The FIRST SEAL brings forth Gods Wrath via the Anti-Christ who takes Peace from the earth via WARS !! So the first Four Seals/Horses bring devastation upon Mankind..........BUT THEY ARE ONLY SEEN AS WARS BY THE PEOPLE.........Why would anyone think that these Wars were any different than WW1 or WW2 to begin with ? They just see another World War or maybe these fanatical Anarchist types are with this Beast and think all Religions should be destroyed, so they are all a party to this Beasts actions. (The 5th Seal is just a TESTAMENT to Gods Anger at the Martyr of the Saints) THENNNNNN The SUPERNATURAL EVENTS START and thus the people of the world SEE THE PASSAGES/Scriptures BELOW !! And it hits them, We are in the Wrath of God, you know the God they heretofore did not BELIEVE IN, but the Sun and Moon gives not is lights, the STARS fall from heaven and you have a GREAT EARTHQUAKE and THEN even the biggest Atheists UNDERSTAND Oh my, we are in the WRATH OF THE LAMB !! 

So all you see is a VISION of when they UNDERSTAND that they are in the WRATH OF God !! And you don't grasp this for some reason, its OBVIOUS TO ME, you are looking at the Vision and misinterpreting what it means. God doesn't start anything in the Middle, God has PERFECT SYMMETRY !! 

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

John NEVER SAYS this is when Gods Wrath starts, he just conveys what the people IN THE VISION SAY !! BOOM !! And they say only that the Wrath of God has COME UPON THEM !! They do not say when it started because they don't understand the bible like we do,if they did they wouldn't be serving THE BEAST !! But they do know the Joel 2:31 Prophecy because it is such a famous passage, they understand these SUPERNATURAL EVENTS were foretold, so its like OH MY !! Its true, Gods Wrath is here, BUT what they don't know, AND what all Christians SHOULD KNOW, is that the Wars of the Four Horses were RELEASED BY THE LAMB !! Thus it was also Gods Wrath !! But people actually take this Vision where John sees these people making a FACTUAL STATEMENT, and they then twist it as to where God starts his Wrath in the MIDDLE of the Seals, and it makes me laugh out loud, God is a perfect God and that means perfect SYMMETRY at all times. The Lamb Opens the FIRST SEAL but its not Gods Wrath, that is just so mind boggling unto me !! 

Then you come up with the First Seal was opened 2000 years ago, Oh brother. Come on man !!

 

No, John says NO SUCH THING, its just you not understanding the prophetic uttering's there.  Does John say that or is he relaying what the PEOPLE HE SAW IN THE VISION SAYS ? Ohhhhhhhhhh I see !! 

Wow! What did these people SEE?  They saw and felt a great earthquake. They knew what Isaiah had written:
Isa 2:

10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty.

11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Now, what else did they see? They saw the sun turn dark, and the moon into blood.

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

 

What happens soon after at the first trumpet judgment?

Rev 8:The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

I wonder, will the people living then know what Joel wrote?

Joel 1:

15 Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

18 How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture; yea, the flocks of sheep are made desolate.

19 O Lord, to thee will I cry: for the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness, and the flame hath burned all the trees of the field.

20 The beasts of the field cry also unto thee: for the rivers of waters are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness.

 

Then we have this verse: Isaiah 13

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

A beginning reader could tell us that the trumpet judgments are doing exactly that: laying the land desolate.

What does all this mean? It means those people were right: the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath starts with the great earthquake at the 6th seal.  What did Paul tell us? The Sudden destruction is the start of the Day of the Lord, and it is triggered by the rapture of the church. And the sudden destruction is the start of God's wrath. Those living in the light of the gospel get caught up and are saved from this sudden destruction. 

Therefore, I DO understand. It seems you don't.

The FIRST SEAL brings forth Gods Wrath via the Anti-Christ who takes Peace from the earth via WARS !

Now I know you are missing the truth and teaching the ideas of man! You are pulling the first seal out of its 32 AD context. It is clear you have little understanding of John's (and the Holy Spirit's) timing. If I were you, I would go back to chapters 4 & 5 and hang out there until you get it. WHEN did Jesus ascend into heaven? 32 AD.  Sorry, but you are 2000 years off in your understanding.  The second horseman on the red horse, the 2nd seal, also opened around 32 AD was to bring the sword, or WAR to the world - but ONLY to 1/4 of the world centered on Jerusalem. Where was the first and second world war started? Right in that 1/4th! WAKE UP! Where did the black plague hit twice, both times killing about one third of the population? Again in Europe, right in that 1/4th. That was seal 4 and the pale horse and rider at work. 

Where have there been so many people starving in our lifetime? Of course, in Africa - again right in that 1/4th. 

You see, these are CHURCH AGE events - just as Jesus Himself said, "the end is not yet."  Where is your understanding?

Also opened in or around 32 AD: the fifth seal for the martyrs of the church age. It had to be opened then, for Stephen was one of the first. And Saul was adding to that number. They had NO IDEA how long it would be until judgment would come - so they asked God. The answer? They would have to wait until ALL church age martyrs were killed. In other words, they must wait for the rapture of the church to end the church age, and bring in the Day of the Lord. Where is your understanding?

Another proof you have missed it big time? If you imagine the seals are God's wrath, then God must have been very angry at HIS OWN, and caused them to be martyred!  How silly is that? God LOVES his own, and it was the devil who martyred Stephen and all the rest. God is not a murderer. The Devil is. 

If I were you, I could chuck your entire end times theory into file 13 and start over. Seals 1-5 were opened around 32 AD, as soon as Jesus ascended back into the throne room and got the book from the Father. That is what is written - if you refuse to add man's imaginations.

It is apparent that you don't believe Joel: the sun must turn dark, and the moon into blood BEFORE the Day begins. Did you miss that "before?"

Edited by iamlamad

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It is true that the tribulation period begins here [Revelation 6:12-17]

But you both interpret Revelation 6:1-11 incorrectly

This is a prelude to the beginning of the coming tribulation period .... a pretext to the 70th week decreed for Israel

This pretext is repeated with detail in Revelation 6:12-17 and beyond

Revelation 6:1-11 is an overview of what is coming and Jesus is the white horse rider   

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1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Wow! What did these people SEE?  They saw and felt a great earthquake. They knew what Isaiah had written:
Isa 2:

10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty.

11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Now, what else did they see? They saw the sun turn dark, and the moon into blood.

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

And the Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath) lasts 3.5 years so of course all of THESE THINGS happen during the DOTL.

As does the Sun, Moon and Stars even. They all happen IN THE Day of the Lord. 

The Bible in Joel 2:31 uses a word that means FACE or IN THE PRESENCE OF.........Which means these things happen DURING the DOTL, not BEFORE the DOTL comes, that why we have to research the English Translations. It means these things happen in the presence of the DOTL.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

What happens soon after at the first trumpet judgment?

Rev 8:The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

I wonder, will the people living then know what Joel wrote?

Joel 1:

15 Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

18 How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture; yea, the flocks of sheep are made desolate.

19 O Lord, to thee will I cry: for the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness, and the flame hath burned all the trees of the field.

20 The beasts of the field cry also unto thee: for the rivers of waters are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness.

 

Then we have this verse: Isaiah 13

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

A beginning reader could tell us that the trumpet judgments are doing exactly that: laying the land desolate.

What does all this mean? It means those people were right: the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath starts with the great earthquake at the 6th seal.  What did Paul tell us? The Sudden destruction is the start of the Day of the Lord, and it is triggered by the rapture of the church. And the sudden destruction is the start of God's wrath. Those living in the light of the gospel get caught up and are saved from this sudden destruction. 

Therefore, I DO understand. It seems you don't.

You understand NOTHING or else you wouldn't have wasted your time with the above which proves nothing. Then again, I take no one serious who thinks the Seals have already been opened anyway.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

The FIRST SEAL brings forth Gods Wrath via the Anti-Christ who takes Peace from the earth via WARS !

Now I know you are missing the truth and teaching the ideas of man! You are pulling the first seal out of its 32 AD context. It is clear you have little understanding of John's (and the Holy Spirit's) timing. If I were you, I would go back to chapters 4 & 5 and hang out there until you get it. WHEN did Jesus ascend into heaven? 32 AD.  Sorry, but you are 2000 years off in your understanding.  The second horseman on the red horse, the 2nd seal, also opened around 32 AD was to bring the sword, or WAR to the world - but ONLY to 1/4 of the world centered on Jerusalem. Where was the first and second world war started? Right in that 1/4th! WAKE UP! Where did the black plague hit twice, both times killing about one third of the population? Again in Europe, right in that 1/4th. That was seal 4 and the pale horse and rider at work. 

Where have there been so many people starving in our lifetime? Of course, in Africa - again right in that 1/4th. 

You see, these are CHURCH AGE events - just as Jesus Himself said, "the end is not yet."  Where is your understanding?

Also opened in or around 32 AD: the fifth seal for the martyrs of the church age. It had to be opened then, for Stephen was one of the first. And Saul was adding to that number. They had NO IDEA how long it would be until judgment would come - so they asked God. The answer? They would have to wait until ALL church age martyrs were killed. In other words, they must wait for the rapture of the church to end the church age, and bring in the Day of the Lord. Where is your understanding?

Another proof you have missed it big time? If you imagine the seals are God's wrath, then God must have been very angry at HIS OWN, and caused them to be martyred!  How silly is that? God LOVES his own, and it was the devil who martyred Stephen and all the rest. God is not a murderer. The Devil is. 

If I were you, I could chuck your entire end times theory into file 13 and start over. Seals 1-5 were opened around 32 AD, as soon as Jesus ascended back into the throne room and got the book from the Father. That is what is written - if you refuse to add man's imaginations.

It is apparent that you don't believe Joel: the sun must turn dark, and the moon into blood BEFORE the Day begins. Did you miss that "before?"

You might as well move on fellow, I do not even waste my time on people who think the Seals have already been opened, if that is your opinion. more power to you, but I take no part in it nor do I even desire to discuss such issues, to me they are way out in left field. 

 

22 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

It is true that the tribulation period begins here [Revelation 6:12-17]

But you both interpret Revelation 6:1-11 incorrectly

This is a prelude to the beginning of the coming tribulation period .... a pretext to the 70th week decreed for Israel

This pretext is repeated with detail in Revelation 6:12-17 and beyond

Revelation 6:1-11 is an overview of what is coming and Jesus is the white horse rider   

Tribulation = TROUBLES...........The Jews are Conquered by the Anti-Christ who then becomes a BEAST via the First Seal. 

Nothing starts in the middle, the DOTL starts with the First Seal being opened, of course iamlamad believes the First Seal was opened 2000 years ago so that's just something not even up for discussion for me.

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Posted (edited)

Again, the seals are a summary prelude to describe the coming tribulation period

Revelation is not complicated

The 5 seals are a composite view of the coming tribulation period which will take place as noted from Revelation 8 through 19 including the battle of Armageddon at the end

Then just after, the Lord will gather all of those alive upon the earth and separate them: Israel [Matthew 24:29-31 ]; The Gentiles [Matthew 25:31-46]

It is just that simple

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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