The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Its all right there in the scriptures; millions read of a pretrib coming and rapture. If you can't see it, that is on you, not on the scriptures or anyone else. Or, perhaps you just want to be left behind for some reason.

In case you have missed it, in Revelation 19 the saints are already in heaven at the marriage, BEFORE Christ descends to the battle of Aramageddon.

In case you missed it, the great crowd too large to number were seen in the throne room before John ever starts the 70th week.

In case you missed it, if the rapture took place on His way down in Rev. 19, there would then be no sheep for the judgment: all the sheep would be raptured and changed into resurrection bodies.

Then why is the one and only gathering so described always occur in conjunction with Jesus return? 

And if untold millions are taken to heaven alive prior to the beginning of the last week, why is this never mentioned akin to the gathering of Matt 24?

Surely such a large and righteous group would be mentioned. But no where do we see the Lord say there is an early out for this group of modern holy people already pure and holy and deserving of white robes and thrones. 

I'd get ready if I were you. Your pretrib rapture is not happening. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Then why is the one and only gathering so described always occur in conjunction with Jesus return? 

And if untold millions are taken to heaven alive prior to the beginning of the last week, why is this never mentioned akin to the gathering of Matt 24?

Surely such a large and righteous group would be mentioned. But no where do we see the Lord say there is an early out for this group of modern holy people already pure and holy and deserving of white robes and thrones. 

I'd get ready if I were you. Your pretrib rapture is not happening. 

Is God not allowed to have more than one gathering? I thought He was "sovereign!" The gathering in Matthew 24 is not Paul's rapture: plain and simple.  "Such a large and righteous group" IS mentioned: in Rev. 7. 

Truthfully, I am looking up because His coming is soon! I hope you won't be left behind.

[Steve Conley]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Is God not allowed to have more than one gathering? I thought He was "sovereign!" The gathering in Matthew 24 is not Paul's rapture: plain and simple.  "Such a large and righteous group" IS mentioned: in Rev. 7. 

Truthfully, I am looking up because His coming is soon! I hope you won't be left behind.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

iamlamad, Diaste is right, you are in for a huge disappointment.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

iamlamad, Diaste is right, you are in for a huge disappointment.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

That verse is your proof? They are those that were left behind in the pretrib coming of Christ. When they saw that the true believers were caught up, they suddenly got SERIOUS with God, and became solid believers - but they will have to live through the days of GT or else lose their head. 

No disappointment except for those left behind.

[Daniel 11:36]

Daiste is dead wrong .... why do you people refute Biblical truth related to the Lord's first action to immortalize those who believe in Him

He will then bring His wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world

 

  

[Heb 13:8]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Revelation 1-5 is related to Christ's birth. The dragon is mentioned 32 times (including pronouns) in chapter 12! You should do a recount! And every time John is referring to the devil, Satan, the prince of this present world. It was Satan that took 1/3 of the angels of heaven with him. 

Oh ok, so Herod had seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns? Or is this referring to nations and kings in the beast system. Really?? ?

Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.

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t is only imagination that the 24 elders have anything to do with the rapture.  The great multitude too large to count in chapter 7 is the just raptured church. They were raptured right at the 6th seal. John saw them shortly after that.  They are seen or heard from again in chapter 19. And they are there at the marriage and supper which will be in heaven just before we all return with Jesus.

How do you explain the crowns in Rev 4?? There are five crowns we are able to receive at the Bema Seat. It seems like the praising and worshiping are synonymous in words, via pre-trib rapture and angels standing around the throne........

GLORY
HONOR
POWER

Rev 4:10-11 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say: 11"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

Rev 5:11-14 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” 13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” 14The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Rev 7:10-12 And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." 11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying: "Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!"

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Added later:  John saw the 24 elders in a vision of the past, during the time that Jesus ascended - around 32 AD. The church at that time was an infant church. These elders have to be from the Old Covenant.

Wow! No, iam. John had a vision of the rapture and the 70th week of Daniel, via seals trumpets and bowls and 1260 days. Rev 4-19.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Heb 13:8

[Diaste]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Is God not allowed to have more than one gathering? I thought He was "sovereign!" The gathering in Matthew 24 is not Paul's rapture: plain and simple.  "Such a large and righteous group" IS mentioned: in Rev. 7. 

Truthfully, I am looking up because His coming is soon! I hope you won't be left behind.

God is allowed to do anything. Your question is invalid in this case as it's not proof of anything. Cite scriptures that show a gathering before the 70th week begins that is not associated with the coming of the Lord and the attendant events. Why don't you see that imminence is refuted by the verses you cite in attempts to prove the pretrib 'rapture'?

There is no such thing as 'rapture' in scripture. It's made up. The gathering Paul spoke of is associated with the coming of the Lord, only after the revealing of the beast. The large righteous group from Rev 7 you mentioned? They came out of GT. They are not gathered before the 70th week begins, they are gathered and saved from out of GT.

Aren't you going to feel betrayed when you find the doctrine you have learned is false and there is no pretrib 'rapture'?

Edited July 24, 2018 by Diaste

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

That verse is your proof? They are those that were left behind in the pretrib coming of Christ. When they saw that the true believers were caught up, they suddenly got SERIOUS with God, and became solid believers - but they will have to live through the days of GT or else lose their head. 

No disappointment except for those left behind.

This concept is unworkable for pretrib doctrine. According to Pretrib GT is the wrath of God. No believer will see the wrath of God. Ergo, no believers can be in the GT. Yet there are. This means the pretrib arguments are based on a false premise. The arguments for Pretrib are consistent but the conclusion is false based on the evidence that believers came from out of GT.

So the false evidence for pretrib begins with the assumption that the 70th week is all God's wrath.  

False, because we all know wrath does not begin until the 6th seal, deep into the last week. 

And the doctrine crumbles, and great was the fall.

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Daiste is dead wrong .... why do you people refute Biblical truth related to the Lord's first action to immortalize those who believe in Him

He will then bring His wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world

 

  

I have never been right or wrong about this. God breathed scripture speaks. I listen. I repeat.

[n2thelight]

What most fail to understand is that satan is very soon coming to this earth,not in possession of anyone ,but him,himself

I mean do you really think that he would give to a mere mortal man,that which he has wanted almost for forever?

 

No it's him.in living color,and his angels coming with him.

It's possession now perse,but when he get's kicked out of Heaven it will be Him.....satan is somebody and that somebody will deceive the world.

satan is the only one by name sentenced to death,but the angels who kept not their estate are as well,if you ever wondered who the 7000 that die instantly at the return of Christ,it's them,they are just not named

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Another thing do you understand why men(flesh)men will seek death and won't find it?

Revelation 9:6 "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

They can't find it because at that point ALL will be changed.

Why do you think they would seek death?Because at this point they will know that they were in bed with satan,ie,a whore

Just planting!!!