The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[iamlamad]

43 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Good point and the two I think are related.  The conquering that is associated with the first seal is when truth is assaulted.  This attack on truth has several fronts and is a long, protracted campaign.  It's been going on for decades and has caused a gradual falling away from the truth.  A falling away from the truth should not be confused with church attendance.  People can worship God with their lips but yet their hearts can be far from Him. 

As long as you hold to this idea of the first seal, you will be miles off from the truth. The conquering or overcoming was for the CHURCH to spread the gospel. That started around 32 AD, just as is shown in chapter 5 when John saw the moment that Jesus ascended and the Holy Spirit was sent down. Just so you know, that was included in this book to show TIMING.

[Last Daze]

9 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Primarily they were to 7 EXISTING churches that John sent this book too. Some people do think they represent ages; I rather think they represent churches throughout the ages of the Gentiles.  We are not so far off here.

 

You did not answer the question. I hope you will. Where do you suppose the text switches to future?

I did answer the question.  You just don't agree with it.  The seven letters spoke to "the things which are" which at that time was the spreading of the gospel.  It was presently taking place and extended centuries into the future.

[Last Daze]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

As long as you hold to this idea of the first seal, you will be miles off from the truth. The conquering or overcoming was for the CHURCH to spread the gospel. That started around 32 AD, just as is shown in chapter 5 when John saw the moment that Jesus ascended and the Holy Spirit was sent down. Just so you know, that was included in this book to show TIMING.

Not going to sweat it.  There are bigger fish to fry.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, douggg said:

But you have the 7 years beginning after the sixth seal.    Which in the sixth seal, the second heaven is rolled up like a scroll - removed.   And the world seeing Jesus before the throne of God.

You are not having the 7 years beginning the way the bible says in Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Instead you have some far out idea that the 7 years begin with the 7th seal,  because the 7th seal is number 7.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Daniel 9:27 is the only text in the entire bible that states what begins the 7 years.

The "he" who confirms the covenant with many to begin the 7 years - is the Antichrist.    The rider on the white horse.

Revelation 6-19 tells what is going to take place during the 7 years.

John was copying the idea of Old Testament prophecy writing, with exaggeration! The text SAYS God is on the throne, but the people IMAGINE that He is looking at them with fierce anger!  No one really knows the meaning of the sky rolling up as a scroll. All I know is that it is NOT the end of the world. It is the beginning of the DAY. Perhaps there is some kind of curtain that prevents us from seeing heaven. I know of a girl that went to heaven and came back, that could just look up and SEE heaven.

Just so you know, when God began teaching me Revelation the very first thing He sent me to find was the midpoint "clearly marked." He spoke when I was reading Dan. 9:27, when my eyes and my mind got to the word MIDST.  The second words He spoke were: "In fact, you could find the entire 70th week 'clearly marked.'" When He spoke those words, He also gave in revelation knowledge without words: that the REASON I could find the entire 70th week "clearly marked" after finding the midpoint, is that God would use the SAME MARKER.  I found the midpoint "clearly marked" at the 7th trumpet. Instantly then I knew the entire 70th week would be marked by 7's. 

Jesus TOLD me how to find the midpoint: "when ever I mentioned an event that would begin at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the three and one half year period of time: when you find these mentions of the three and a half years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint."  

That would place the "exact midpoint" as He said, in chapters 11 to 13. In fact, the 7th trumpet is in chapter 11. 

Now it is up to you to judge. NOT judge if it lines up with what you believe: judge if it agrees with what is written! Most people wish to include the seals in the 70th week, but the truth is, God did not places them there. the 70th week is what is INSIDE the scroll: all 7 seals must be opened before the 70th week can start to be fulfilled. Must people miss this very obvious point. 

The scroll is the earth lease document giving Adam a 6000 year lease. But it was sealed so that it could NOT be opened (no 70th week) UNLESS a Redeemer was found: a MAN who raised from the dead with His OWN power to become the redeemer.  The truth is, if no man was ever found, then Satan would remain the god of this world forever. THANK GOD Jesus was found worthy, and began opening the seals as soon as He ascended, starting the process of ENDING Satan's reign as god of this world.

Jesus did not open all the seals - only those seals pretaining to the begining of the church age: seal 1 for the gospel sent forth, seal 2, 3, and 4 to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel, and seal 5 for Stephen and the other martyrs of the church age.  He did NOT open seal 6 yet, becuase it is not time yet for that to be opened. However, in the vision John saw the entire end of the age play out. But these events are future and have not happened yet -  such as the trumpet judgments.

The truth is, there WILL BE 1260 days from the 7th seal to the 7th trumpet, and 1260 days from the 7th trumpet to the 7th vial.

Another truth, this Dan. 9 covenant will certainly be confirmed when the 7th seal is opened, but it will be done in SECRET: the world will not know about it.  My guess is, that is why Jesus skipped over the first half of the week and his first end time event was the abomination.  My guess is, that is why Paul tells us that the man of sin will not be revealed UNTIL he enters the temple and declares he is god. 

I agree then that that there will be some kind of covenant for 7 years confirmed. I do not agree that the world will know about it. 

[iamlamad]

8 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Not going to sweat it.  There are bigger fish to fry.

I agree: for example, will you be expecting Christ's coming FOR His church tomrrow, the next day, the next day, etc until He comes?

[iamlamad]

10 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I did answer the question.  You just don't agree with it.  The seven letters spoke to "the things which are" which at that time was the spreading of the gospel.  It was presently taking place and extended centuries into the future.

So the place in Revelation where the church is now - is somewhere in chapters 2 or 3?  Can you get any closer? 

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, douggg said:

It is in the text of the sixth seal.   In the sixth seal, they see the throne of God in (the third) heaven, verse 16.         The second heaven in verse 14

, the cosmos, is removed like a scroll is rolled together.

 

You have the 7 years beginning while the evil men are trying to hide from Jesus, who they SEE. 

 

The 7 years don't begin with the 7th seal, just because it is number 7, as you are saying.     What the bible says is the seven years begin with  Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

But you are having the 7 years taking place - with the cosmos rolled aside before then, and the world seeing Jesus the whole time, as he is before the throne of God in the third heaven.

 

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

You are confusing the DAY with the 70th week. They are not the same. The DAY starts first, the WEEK starts after the DAY. 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

You are confusing the DAY with the 70th week. They are not the same. The DAY starts first, the WEEK starts after the DAY. 

The Day of the Lord starts around 3 years 3 months, thereabouts, into the 70th week.

The only place in the entire bible that informs what starts the 70th week is Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:  

Where is the "he" in Revelation at the beginning of the 70th week?

Edited August 22, 2018 by douggg

[iamlamad]

11 minutes ago, douggg said:

The Day of the Lord starts around 3 years 3 months, thereabouts, into the 70th week.

The only place in the entire bible that informs what starts the 70th week is Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:  

Where is the "he" in Revelation at the beginning of the 70th week?

Please prove by scripture your starting point for the DAY. I go by what is plainly written: the 6th seal. the scroll is not yet unrolled yet to reveal the trumpets, because it CANNOT be opened until the 7th seal is opened.  What you are missing is that in real time each seal was or will be opened just at the proper time for that event to take place.  Same with the angels holding the 7 trumpets: NO angel will sound his trumpet until it is the proper time for that judgment. Same with the angels with the vials of God's wrath. Why then would it not be the same for the seals? Of course, it was and will be the same for the seals, the trumpets and the vials.  However, in the vision, John saw it all ahead of time!

I agree, Dan. 9 is the only place. Why then do you expect to find this in Revelation or anywhere in the New Testament? If God wanted us to know, He would have shown it to John and John to us. We don't have it.  What we can easily prove is that the exact midpoint is at the 7th trumpet. Seconds after that we see those living in Judea beginning to flee: 12:6.

Therefore, I don't expect to find a "he" written in Revelation where the week begins. However, I know there will be signs in the sun and moon somewhere in the timeline of chapter 19 when Jesus returns in power - but John did not see it so did not write it - yet we know from Matthew 24 it will happen.

[Last Daze]

49 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

So the place in Revelation where the church is now - is somewhere in chapters 2 or 3?  Can you get any closer? 

No, we have moved beyond the spreading of the gospel worldwide.  The times of the Gentiles is fulfilled and the first seal is opened.

What marker did Jesus give us for us to know when the times of the Gentiles would be fulfilled?