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Heb 13:8

The context of 1 Thess 5:1

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You all(rapturist)keep talking Israel,where the Heck is Judah?

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24 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

So how are they getting signs when they don't believe in Christ?

The signs become visible, which is the opposite of faith unseen.

18 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Thinking you all need to figure out the difference between ,Judah,Israel and Gentiles

Why, what's up?

7 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

You all(rapturist)keep talking Israel,where the Heck is Judah?

Ioudaia: Judaea.
Original Word: Ἰουδαία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: Ioudaia
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-oo-dah'-yah)
Short Definition: Judea
Definition: Judea, a Roman province, capital Jerusalem.

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4 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

The signs become visible, which is the opposite of faith unseen.

Why, what's up?

Ioudaia: Judaea.
Original Word: Ἰουδαία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: Ioudaia
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-oo-dah'-yah)
Short Definition: Judea
Definition: Judea, a Roman province, capital Jerusalem.

Don't need the meaning of Judah,need to know where you think they are, as scripture clearly show they are distinct from Israel.

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4 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Don't need the meaning of Judah,need to know where you think they are, as scripture clearly show they are distinct from Israel.

Jerusalem is a city in the Middle East, located on a plateau in the Judaean Mountains between the Mediterranean and the Dead Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem

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9 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

The signs become visible, which is the opposite of faith unseen.

How the heck do signs become visible to unbelieving people,the signs were given by Christ himself to believers

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1 minute ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Jerusalem is a city in the Middle East, located on a plateau in the Judaean Mountains between the Mediterranean and the Dead Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem

Don't worry bout it,need no more responses from you!!!!

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7 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

How the heck do signs become visible to unbelieving people,the signs were given by Christ himself to believers

They don't, they remain in unbelief.

6 minutes ago, n2thelight said:

Don't worry bout it,need no more responses from you!!!!

ok

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4 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

RM, you had stated that they find peace after they repent, and you said they repent prior to the 70th week. Correct?

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The Church Repented 2000 years ago and Jesus said what? You will ALWAYS HAVE TRIBULATION. John in Rev. ch. 1 said to the 7 Churches, I am your brother in TRIBULATION. Repentance doesn't bring PEACE per se. We will have the peace of Christ in our hearts and we will eventually have peace with Christ Jesus/God at some point, but no one that understands prophecy thinks this peace will happen on earth until Jesus' Second Coming. The 1/3 of the Jews will be protected by God in Petra, but I don't call it Peace when many of your kin folks are being slaughtered. 

4 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

How is fleeing into the mountains to avoid the antichrist peaceful? If they've repented then why are they re-building the third temple for the antichrist?

Again, the PEACE QUIP comes from you, you are not understanding the PEACE spoken of in those verses you cited are speaking about a point in time after the SECOND COMING. You seemingly think we repentance come automatic peace but the Church REPENTED and still had tribulations, the Church only has peace after the Rapture to be with Jesus, likewise Israel will have PEACE when Jesus Returns, in both instances the presence of the Lord Jesus is required, we have PEACE OF MIND & SPIRIT with the Holy Spirit, but the Peace being described in those verses you cite is speaking about the 1000 year reign. The netter question is why do you think Israel has Peace before the Second Coming? They don't.

4 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

They've read Dan 9. Did Israel repent after they listened to God in Exod 14. No, they instead worshiped a golden calf in Exod 32.

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No, they have REPENTED Just like Malachi 4:5-6 says. That is why they Heed Jesus' voice. Why do you want to ignore Malachi ? 

4 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

2 Thess 2:4, Rev 11:1-2 ( naos )

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2 Thess. 2 is all about the Church departing before the Anti-Christ can be RELEASED to come forth. Rev. 11:1-2 has nothing to do with a Greek temple the book was just written in Greek. Those two verses are a METAPHOR for the Two-witnesses, they are to preach to the Jews (inner sanctum/Alter) but not unto the Gentiles. Remember how Jesus' Ministry was to the Jews only? Thus the Two-witnesses have likewise been called unto the Jews only. The Holy Spirit will call the Gentiles unto Repentance. Some do come to repent, they are the Beheaded unto the Alter in the 5th Seal. 

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Because the end is the end.

Quote

The 1000 year Reign isn't even the end. They are TRIED BY THE FIRE because they Repent and HEED Jesus words via FAITH !! We all live by Faith.

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Rom 11:28-29 is referring to the calling of the elect, not Israel.

Quote

Thus you totally miss the Rapture of the Gentile Elect, then the OPENING OF Israel's EYES, they are also the ELECT, anyone that BELIEVES in Christ is thus ELECTED unto Heaven. Thus the Jews who REPENT are just as ELECT as you are I, its not up to us to tell God how/what/when to do His calling home of His people. All because I bet you do not understand "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" well it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that there are Jews and Gentiles, just like there are Geeks and American today. Paul is only speaking of how we all come unto God via FAITH ALONE !! We must all be SAVED in the exact same manner. But Gods TIMING is His business. He will call Israel unto REPENTANCE after the Church has been Raptured. FACTUAL. 

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Do you believe that not every believer will be a martyr in the 70th week?

 

Those Jews who REPENT and HEED Jesus' call to Flee unto Petra will be PROTECTED. The Church is PROTECTED in Heaven, those Gentile Christians who come unto Christ during the 70th Week will be killed. The are the Martyrs under the Alter. WHY? Because God Promised Abraham a Continua SEED Forever, that is why, God can not lie !! 

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

 Rom 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles

You changing/swapping bibles doesn't move me. I use two, the KJV and usually the Holman. Swapping to male a point has the opposite affect on me, I know what the fullness of the Gentiles mean, it means until their Ministry has come full........THE RAPTURE does away with the Gentile Church on earths Ministry. The Two-witnesses take over.

 

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

It seems to me that Israel is being delivered from the dragon in the latter 3.5 years.

 Rom 11:26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer (rhuomai) will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

Rev 12:14-16 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

Romans 11:26 has nothing to do with these passages. Its speaking about Christ Jesus DELIVERING Israel from Son, its a SPIRITUAL DELIVERANCE, thus only 1/3 accept it. As per Rev. ch. 12, Satan (Dragon) ca chase no one, hes a Demon, of course he gets the Anti-Christ to come after Israel, just like he gt King Herod to come after the Baby Jesus trying to kill all Children under 2 years old. 

God Protects her for 1260 Days in Petra/Wilderness, so she Flees at the 1290 which is 30 days before the 1260. It means 1290 Days until Jesus' Second Coming. The Flood means an ARMY, not a River of water. God Protects her then the Dragon via the Anti-Christ/Beast comes after who ? The REMNANT CHURCH, whom of course he KILLS OFF.

5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

The law doesn't keep a believer saved, the blood of Christ does.

That was not the POINT........The Point was the Covenant via Jesus Christ was the ORIGINAL COVENANT, the Law Covenant was added 430 years later. 

The Original Covenant with Abraham had ZERO to do with the Law..........Absolutely NOTHING !! 

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5 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, Matt 24:31 and 2 Thess 2 are referring to the second coming, not rapture.

No, Matt. 24:31 is the Second Coming..........2 Thess. 2 is the Rapture. 

Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 years.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, n2thelight said:

You all (rapturist)say that,why is it you never take in account that those days were cut short?Fact is the time is cut to 5 months,ie,the time of the locust.

Bottom line,ain't no rapture...

Nothing is cut short, God doesn't have to plan twice....He cut the END TIMES to SEVEN YEARS because that was God's understanding of how long He could allow the Wrath of God to go on. The Beast is allowed to rule 3.5 Years or 42 Months, any longer and all humans would have been wiped out. 

 

13 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Rapture is in 1 Thess 4:17"

 

You are correct

The Rapture is many places, 1 Cor. 15, Rev. 4:1, 1 Thess. 4:17, the 2 Thess. 2 chapter is explaining that the CHURCH MUST DEPART before the Man of Sin can come onto the scene. So it is speaking about an EVENT (The Anti-Christ coming forth) that CAN NOT HAPPEN.........Until the Rapture. That is a fact. 

12 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

and also Rev 12:5

13 hours ago, n2thelight said:

That is NOT THE RAPTURE, that happens during the 70th Week. 

Edited by Revelation Man

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