counterfeit

[HisFirst]

Jesus said : 

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Matthew 12 v 40 NKJV

* That's pretty plain language that Jesus used.

Its very clear that Jesus was referring to an event that DID happen.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by HisFirst

[Willie T]

I find it interesting in all this comparing.... if we read literally, we have to believe that Hell is located in the center of this planet.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Willie T

[GandalfTheWise]

In the midst of discussions on literal versus allegorical parts of scripture (among Christians who believe God exists and believe in scripture as authoritative), one thing I always try to keep in the back of my mind is that some issues are of critical importance to some Christians' faith.  Some of these discussions can cause serious doubts in some people's minds about scripture.  I always try to make sure that any such discussion is purely about arriving at a better understanding of particular passages in scripture and is not becoming a make it or break it issue for someone to trust the Bible or not.

I've run into scores of Christians over the years who had a near shipwreck of faith when something that they had whole heartedly believed suddenly was questioned.    They then started to question everything that they had been taught.  This is especially prevalent among those who were raised (either as children or as young Christians) in churches that taught some version of a "scripture as we teach it is 100% trustworthy or else we may as well give up and throw it out" approach.  Instead of teaching a "God is 100% trustworthy whether we understand everything in scripture correctly or not" which puts the focus on God, some Christians are brought up with a focus that having particular beliefs about what the Bible says is of critical importance.  For example, I've become aware that when I get into discussions with flat-earthers, I need to ascertain first if that is a critical matter of faith for them whereby they'll give up on the Bible if I manage to produce doubts in their mind about the shape of the earth.  If so, I try to first deal with the idea that God is 100% trustworthy whether we make mistakes about what we believe or not.

 

[HisFirst]

Good points Gandalf!

My Dad was an atheist as an adult  but was raised Catholic - the Supernatural parts of the Bible he didn't accept, (he felt they were stories/fables) however, he acknowledged that Jesus was an historical figure.

Whereas, I have no problem with the Supernatural aspects  of the Bible (even before becoming a Christian), because that certainly  shows the difference between mortal man and God. 

[Willie T]

My main problem seems to be with the emphatic and dogmatically demonstrative statements of presumed "FACT" that are often declared when really doing little more than just expressing an opinion of personal interpretation.  The idea of saying "I think" or "I believe" or "the way I see it is..." seems to be an impossibility for some people.  100% of the time it has to be... "It IS !!!" It seems as though they fear being a double-minded Christian if they do not make a positive statement that there can be no other way to view something but the one they are proclaiming is an absolute fact.  It seems to be something they just cannot risk God hearing them say.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Willie T

[Adstar]

14 hours ago, Willie T said:

My main problem seems to be with the emphatic and dogmatically demonstrative statements of presumed "FACT" that are often declared when really doing little more than just expressing an opinion of personal interpretation.  The idea of saying "I think" or "I believe" or "the way I see it is..." seems to be an impossibility for some people.  100% of the time it has to be... "It IS !!!" It seems as though they fear being a double-minded Christian if they do not make a positive statement that there can be no other way to view something but the one they are proclaiming is an absolute fact.  It seems to be something they just cannot risk God hearing them say.

Why should someone need to tag on the front of each and every statement they make about Christianity "'I believe""  If they make the statement then clearly they believe what they are saying..  Unless they are a liar..  Of course a person believes what they are saying is truth when they give a statement of faith.. It is up to others who have different beliefs to put forward their beliefs and give what ever scriptural or other supporting evidence to support their alternate view..

Is absolute confidence that Jesus was raised from the dead a sin ?   If someone comes up to me and says::  ""Oh i cannot really be absolutely sure but i am under the impression that maybe Jesus was raised from the dead""  I would not consider that person to be a solid Christian and i would hope that person would never try to bear witness to the lost with such an uncertain stance..  If a person is confident in their beliefs then they should state it as fact until someone can come along using scriptures and solid reasons to cause one to re-evaluate their P.O.V on the matter..

So yes i will state Jesus was raised from the dead and i put it forward as an absolute fact and i will not be made to feel ashamed of saying it is so..

[Heleadethme]

Maybe we can consider whether there is an important principle being demonstrated in what happened to Jonah......a biblical principle of first the natural, then the spiritual.  Jonah being in the belly of the fish for three days and then vomited out....was a kind of prophetic act of God which prophesied, as it were, of the coming crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, and descent into hell which could not hold Him.  The bible says God had PREPARED this fish.....so for example it might have had some kind of indigestion....anyone ever had indigestion?......depleted stomach acids (alkaline) so that food is not digesting but sitting like a lump in the stomach, which becomes full of gas (air), which could have enabled Jonah to survive those three days.  I have read that at least one species of fish...whale sharks....grow big enough to swallow a man whole, so it could have been one of those fish.  I don't think it even necessarily requires that much faith to believe it actually happened....and if we are to believe the rest of the story then that part of it must be true also.  One way we can know the rest of the story literally happened is because Jesus said that the men of Nineveh would rise and condemn the generation of His day that did not repent.

Regarding the OP hearing the word "counterfeit" applied to false unity.....amen, it fits perfectly and is completely appropriate......the ecumenical movement is the way that seemeth right to man but leads to death...and is in opposition to the will of God and HIS ways.  Except the LORD build the house they labour in vain, and that is sure not a house that GOD is building by HIS Spirit, but flesh/man and an antichrist spirit.  It is a counterfeit move leading to a counterfeit christ and features counterfeit miracles, which I believe are and will be occultic.

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:51 PM, Christine said:

Hello there,

The other day I went to a Bible study in a local Church.  The study was one of a series of studies in the book of Jonah.  

Except for the repeated comment that it did not matter what one believed concerning the story of Jonah being swallowed by a big fish, that what mattered was the truth it was intended to convey, I enjoyed the study. It was not in depth, being largely anecdotal, which would offend nobody.

I was not happy about that repeated statement because our Lord Jesus Christ Himself endorsed what happened to Jonah: so that alone elevated the record of the events that took place in Jonah's life to absolute Truth;  therefore to fudge it in order to make it palatable to the unbelieving, regardless of the 'truth' it revealed was wrong, and sent up warning signals in my mind regarding the ministry I was sat under.

Then, at the end, I was informed that the study of the book of Jonah was being engaged in by churches around Britain, organised by,'The World Council of Churches'. Again, I heard those warning bells.

Later, on another day, I switched on the radio to radio 4, and happened to tune into a broadcast of the day's, 'Act of Worship', and once again the message delivered was from the book of Jonah. Indicating, to me, that this was all part of the unifying influence of that same organisation. 

* The believer in the Lord Jesus Christ has a 'unity' to 'keep', which is of God's making, (Eph.4) and any attempt on the part of man to create a unity of their own making worries me.

* The word, 'counterfeit', was on my mind as I began writing this, which is the strategy of the enemy of our souls, it being his object to deceive. Only while pondering this, did this come to mind to share with you, so obviously, in my mind, the two thoughts are linked.

Any comment?

In Christ Jesus

Chris

Sister ,   I am going to send you a video that happened over two years ago .    YOU RIGHT its an agenda and when you watch the video , YOU WILL KNOW where its all headed and WHY their has been such a move for unity all over the place and churches .    I warn you sister,   ITS ONE NASTY LIE .    you watch it and hear their own words .

THEY DO have an agenda  , and this will lead all not in the lambs book of life RIGHT to the coming so called savoir who will come in and unify the world as one

who will seem as a savoir , who will be THE ANTI CHRIST .  and folks cant see it .   I am worried and have been worried for so many sister .   

[Wayne222]

On Saturday, August 04, 2018 at 9:31 AM, MeaCulpa3 said:

Something doesn’t necessarily have to be literally true to be true. I don’t believe the story of Jonah and the big fish actually happened in a literal way, just like I don’t believe in a literal 6-day creation or that everything in the book of Job literally happened. But that doesn’t mean those stories are false. 

These stories are not meant to be historical accounts. They are meant to be allegorical, or stories told which convey truths but not in a literal, historical way. So to take them as literal, historical truth would be against what their authors intended.

Jesus said Jonas was the days in the belly of the fish the son of man would be in the heart of the earth. It is clearly a real account of what happen to Jonah. Just like Jesus was really dead three days and came back to life.

[Neighbor]

On 8/3/2018 at 7:51 PM, Christine said:

 

Any comment?

In Christ Jesus

Chris

Hi, Yes a comment: Jesus stated the only sign He would give to the mockers  of Him, the scribes and Pharisees, was the sign of Jonah. His audience knew the sign of Jonah. To Jesus, who is God, the sign is not just allegorical, it is fact as is His own sign of Jonah - his death, burial, descendence,  resurrection, and ascension to be the first fruit of many to come.

 So to present Jonah as allegory is to deny Jesus as God who paid the price of our sin so that many may be saved, all those given to Him by God the Father.  And therefore  the very faith of Jesus  is then just that a faith without basis, just  a nice thought and not historical fact to hang one's whole existence upon.