Who is to be held responsible?

[JTC]

I was listening to an online lecture and this issue was mentioned. Let me rephrase the question. If sincere well meaning believers get taught the wrong things, things that have them committing a sin, who will God charge that sin to the person or the teacher? They were debating this 2000 yrs ago and I think we still are. I recently read James and he told the people that not many should seek to be teachers because teachers will be judged harder than plain believers. That makes it sound like preacher who taught the wrong thing will be charged with everyone's sin. But there's also a scripture that says to him who knows a sin is a sin he will be held responsible for that sin. I forgot if Jesus or Paul said that. So all of us who study the Bible may be getting ourselves into a more responsible place with God. Maybe this is why some people would rather not study it. However, I study it because I love God and I want to know Him. At least that was why I started doing it, but now I find I'm in a more responsible place with God. Or maybe I'm wrong. It seems the churches and the men of God never found an answer to this that they all could agree upon.

[Neighbor]

Jesus was charged with my sin, all my sin not just some. He covered it all with his sacrifice. He is the Lord of my shame, having taken it all upon himself. Jesus  reconciled  my imperfection, making me perfect in the sight of God the Father. I am saved to eternal life with God not by any merit on my part but totally by the shed blood of Jesus who is Lord, God, and my personal savior. Doesn't matter what I am taught Jesus has it covered, the Holy Spirit turned me about from my rebellion against God. My sin against God to seeing and to heeding the gospel of Jesus whose faith has saved me from my sins past present and future.

Do I then sin all the more so that grace of God may abound, no certainly not just as Paul shared, no! Instead I seek out and follow the call of the Holy Spirit, by trying to all that I do toward the glory of God; giving thanks to God in all things big and small from a parking space to a life mate. I give thanks for God grace, mercy, and salvation extended to me a person totally without merit same as all Holy Spirit called  and saved persons are given His grace and give their own thanks to God.

God is no trickster. God does not save me, and then trick me, saying ha so sad but you're bad. God knew me from before the beginning. God predestined me from before the beginning. God the Father gave me to Jesus his son who is God, from before the beginning. Jesus does not lose a one given Him by His father.

The woes of sins may affect longevity  prosperity health even in the flesh, all of which are worked with by God in my sanctification process. My salvation is secure always! No tricks at all.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

I was listening to an online lecture and this issue was mentioned. Let me rephrase the question. If sincere well meaning believers get taught the wrong things, things that have them committing a sin, who will God charge that sin to the person or the teacher?

Both.  While Jesus paid for our sins, we are still accountable to be discerning and not allow false teachers to lead us astray.  We are responsible for making sure that we test what it taught to us. 

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They were debating this 2000 yrs ago and I think we still are. I recently read James and he told the people that not many should seek to be teachers because teachers will be judged harder than plain believers. That makes it sound like preacher who taught the wrong thing will be charged with everyone's sin

What it means is that preachers and teachers who are promoting false doctrine will be held doubly accountable for leading others astray into false teachings.  Those who allowed themselves to be led astray will still be accountable for their willingness to follow.  We are commanded to see to it that we are not led astray.

 

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But there's also a scripture that says to him who knows a sin is a sin he will be held responsible for that sin. I forgot if Jesus or Paul said that. So all of us who study the Bible may be getting ourselves into a more responsible place with God. Maybe this is why some people would rather not study it. However, I study it because I love God and I want to know Him. At least that was why I started doing it, but now I find I'm in a more responsible place with God. Or maybe I'm wrong. It seems the churches and the men of God never found an answer to this that they all could agree upon.

We are all responsible before God and we will all stand and given account, particularly where false teaching is involved and we will account for any participation whether as a teacher or as a recipient.

[Sevenseas]

everyone should spend time in the word.  one reason people fall for unbiblical teaching is because they do NOT study or even read their Bible

we are each accountable for ourselves and ignorance is not an excuse.  

the Bible does speak of 'itching ears' and those who follow unsound doctrine.  the devil always seeks someone to devour and lead astray and we are responsible for our relationship with the Lord, no one else is.  sadly, there is plenty of very bad so called teaching and false prophets etc flogging their wares and doing the devil's job for him

1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.  II Timothy 4

[JTC]

I'm more or less home bound, at this point, but my mind is still healthy. The problems are the body. I always liked to learn but when I was young history didn't interest me. Now it does. Yale University has put a variety of lectures by real professors online and I've been listening to one on the ancient Roman Empire. The prof was talking about when Christianity became the legal religion of the empire. Even back then they were debating who would God hold accountable for false teaching. We never did come to an agreed upon conclusion. That's sad.

   I'm learning things about how the ancient Greeks and Romans practiced their pagan religions I never knew. It was different from what I thought. It's no wonder certain pagan elements got into Christianity it was almost inevitable. I found this interesting so I made a post about it.  

[listener24]

On 9/7/2018 at 1:11 PM, JTC said:

I was listening to an online lecture and this issue was mentioned. Let me rephrase the question. If sincere well meaning believers get taught the wrong things, things that have them committing a sin, who will God charge that sin to the person or the teacher? They were debating this 2000 yrs ago and I think we still are. I recently read James and he told the people that not many should seek to be teachers because teachers will be judged harder than plain believers. That makes it sound like preacher who taught the wrong thing will be charged with everyone's sin. But there's also a scripture that says to him who knows a sin is a sin he will be held responsible for that sin. I forgot if Jesus or Paul said that. So all of us who study the Bible may be getting ourselves into a more responsible place with God. Maybe this is why some people would rather not study it. However, I study it because I love God and I want to know Him. At least that was why I started doing it, but now I find I'm in a more responsible place with God. Or maybe I'm wrong. It seems the churches and the men of God never found an answer to this that they all could agree upon.

I agree with @shiloh357 and @Sevenseas

If a "pastor" ask to blindly follow a wrong suggestion, and the "asker" blindly follows the suggestion, the sin is on both. They are both violating Matthew 23.

Because Jesus said:

 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

Therefore, instead of this:

SCENARIO 1 (against Matthew 23)

"Pastor: here's is the suggestion. Follow it because I'm your pastor"

"Normal Christian: ok, I'll do what you say pastor".

A more healthy situation would be:

SCENARIO 2 (In line with Matthew 23)

Normal Christian 1: "Hey here's is a suggestion. But remember, I'm a man like you. Examine the Scriptures with your brain and make sure that what I'm saying is Scriptural"

Normal Christian 2: "Thank you for the suggestion. I will examine the Scriptures with my brain, and see if the direction you suggested me is in line of Jesus' teachings".

 

Now for scenario 2 to work, each Christian must have a daily relationship with the Word. It's not enough to read it once in a while and think that some "pastor" or "teacher" will explain us what we need to know

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by listener24

[Dennis1209]

On 9/7/2018 at 12:11 PM, JTC said:

I was listening to an online lecture and this issue was mentioned. Let me rephrase the question. If sincere well meaning believers get taught the wrong things, things that have them committing a sin, who will God charge that sin to the person or the teacher? They were debating this 2000 yrs ago and I think we still are. I recently read James and he told the people that not many should seek to be teachers because teachers will be judged harder than plain believers. That makes it sound like preacher who taught the wrong thing will be charged with everyone's sin. But there's also a scripture that says to him who knows a sin is a sin he will be held responsible for that sin. I forgot if Jesus or Paul said that. So all of us who study the Bible may be getting ourselves into a more responsible place with God. Maybe this is why some people would rather not study it. However, I study it because I love God and I want to know Him. At least that was why I started doing it, but now I find I'm in a more responsible place with God. Or maybe I'm wrong. It seems the churches and the men of God never found an answer to this that they all could agree upon.

The way I see it according to scripture is like you said, "preachers, ministers and teachers" are held to a higher standard and will give an account. We (all believers) also will give an account of our lives, failures, thoughts and actions / inaction's at the Bema Seat of Christ. 

Perhaps the following verse is some guidance.

Acts 17:11 (KJV) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Our Bible is our guidance and final authority on what we are to believe and will be judged by the written word of God. We are personally to seek the truth and be Bereans. 

[JTC]

I wasn't trying to zero in on a specific issue when I made this post. I was just amazed that they were debating this some 2000 yrs ago back when the Roman Empire was breaking up and becoming the East & West empires. Only the Eastern one survived. 

[JTC]

5 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

 We (all believers) also will give an account of our lives, failures, thoughts and actions / inaction's at the Bema Seat of Christ.

If I was to get specific I'd chose this issue. When I was saved in 1980 or so I joined a church with Biblical teaching. They had problems but it wasn't their teaching. And yet, I never heard of this Bema judgement because 35 yrs ago I doubt any preacher taught it.

Because it wasn't taught a new believer couldn't even try to correct an older believer. The older believer assumed he could sin with impunity because Jesus died for him (that part is true). This man knew there might be consequences in this life but he was convinced there wouldn't be any in the next life. There must be consequences otherwise there wouldn't be a Bema judgement. But this 1 man was never taught he'd have to answer for all these sins, so does he. I think he does but he won't be in as much trouble as a man who knew he had to answer for his sins but did them anyway.

[notsolostsoul]

15 minutes ago, JTC said:

I wasn't trying to zero in on a specific issue when I made this post. I was just amazed that they were debating this some 2000 yrs ago back when the Roman Empire was breaking up and becoming the East & West empires. Only the Eastern one survived. 

Well Man has debated and been wrong about The Word ever since God gave it to Man.

Just proof that Man, all Man/Men are fallible. 

As for who will be held accountable, we all will. As for how much and why, well there is only one judge, and it is completely up to him.

We must get to know him, stay in him, and obey him. He is the only way.

Praise Jesus!!! ❤❤❤