Who is to be held responsible?

[Unfailing Presence]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 1:11 PM, JTC said:

I was listening to an online lecture and this issue was mentioned. Let me rephrase the question. If sincere well meaning believers get taught the wrong things, things that have them committing a sin, who will God charge that sin to the person or the teacher?

Could you give a specific example of such a sin that a believer would not be aware of ?

[JTC]

34 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Could you give a specific example of such a sin that a believer would not be aware of ?

I kind of did already. 35 yrs ago almost everyone was being taught that once they were saved they could sin with impunity, this is false.

But you see this principle grows larger and larger as we try and see creation as God might. Maybe we shouldn't try to but I just always have. The answer really is that only God can figure all this stuff out. But that doesn't stop egotistical or close minded people from fighting over it. There's no sense in fighting over issues only God can solve. But a person needs wisdom to see this.

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 10:11 AM, JTC said:

I was listening to an online lecture and this issue was mentioned. Let me rephrase the question. If sincere well meaning believers get taught the wrong things, things that have them committing a sin, who will God charge that sin to the person or the teacher? They were debating this 2000 yrs ago and I think we still are. I recently read James and he told the people that not many should seek to be teachers because teachers will be judged harder than plain believers. That makes it sound like preacher who taught the wrong thing will be charged with everyone's sin. But there's also a scripture that says to him who knows a sin is a sin he will be held responsible for that sin. I forgot if Jesus or Paul said that. So all of us who study the Bible may be getting ourselves into a more responsible place with God. Maybe this is why some people would rather not study it. However, I study it because I love God and I want to know Him. At least that was why I started doing it, but now I find I'm in a more responsible place with God. Or maybe I'm wrong. It seems the churches and the men of God never found an answer to this that they all could agree upon.

BOTH .     And this should help explain why .    If any man teaches error ,   The HOLY GHOST would ring an alarm bell.    Even as a babe the SPIRIT always watched out for me .

Even when I had little knowledge , the SPIRIT watched out for me .     IF folks go into sin ,  ITS their own fault .   But the good thing is ,  if one comes and corrects

them and they receive that ,   REPENT of the error   ,   all is well again .     But both are to blame , and without repentance , BOTH WILL BE CHARGED .

HEED the SPIRIT and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh .    Who you think kept my foot safe,  me ,  OR GOD .   HE KEPT me from the evil .  Putting such a love of the truth

upon a heart .     But what GOD did for the worst like me   , OH HE WLL DO for ANYONE .   the question is ...............ONLY WILL they HEED or YE WOULD NOT .

Anyway ,  you ponder on that for a good long while .    And do be encouraged now .  

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, JTC said:

I kind of did already. 35 yrs ago almost everyone was being taught that once they were saved they could sin with impunity, this is false.

But you see this principle grows larger and larger as we try and see creation as God might. Maybe we shouldn't try to but I just always have. The answer really is that only God can figure all this stuff out. But that doesn't stop egotistical or close minded people from fighting over it. There's no sense in fighting over issues only God can solve. But a person needs wisdom to see this.

But who would love that concept , IS the question .   a heart changed by GOD , given all new desiers BY GOD ,   One who follows the LAMB ,  they will have no desire for that sin

or doctrine .   again the answer is simple , who is to blame    ,  BOTH . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:34 AM, shiloh357 said:

Both.  While Jesus paid for our sins, we are still accountable to be discerning and not allow false teachers to lead us astray.  We are responsible for making sure that we test what it taught to us. 

What it means is that preachers and teachers who are promoting false doctrine will be held doubly accountable for leading others astray into false teachings.  Those who allowed themselves to be led astray will still be accountable for their willingness to follow.  We are commanded to see to it that we are not led astray.

 

We are all responsible before God and we will all stand and given account, particularly where false teaching is involved and we will account for any participation whether as a teacher or as a recipient.

NOW THAT HAD TO GET SAID AGAIN .    so bask it in folks .   cause it is BOTH .

[Unfailing Presence]

2 hours ago, JTC said:

3 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Could you give a specific example of such a sin that a believer would not be aware of ?

I kind of did already. 35 yrs ago almost everyone was being taught that once they were saved they could sin with impunity, this is false.

I have to honestly say I have never met a Christian who would believe such a thing . And I have never heard it taught .

I have met Christians who say they know they are , or have ,  committed a certain sin and that they will have to answer for it , but even these deliberate ones did not believe they had 

" impunity " in their mischief .

[JTC]

5 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

I have to honestly say I have never met a Christian who would believe such a thing . And I have never heard it taught .

I'm glad for that. Of course it makes me wonder how old you are and if you were a Christian in the 80's where you lived, because things may have been very different in other areas, especially the Bible Belt states. I'm not saying I heard this preached from a pulpit but the friends I had in my first church basically used to say this to me. I never bought it which lead to many a debate I had with them. I always felt I knew inside myself that even after we are saved we will still have to answer for sins. I see this all over the NT. But I was always told I was wrong. I'm not wrong.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

I sin as much as I want to everyday.Since God gave me a heart operation I just don’t want to .

[Unfailing Presence]

2 hours ago, JTC said:

2 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

I have to honestly say I have never met a Christian who would believe such a thing . And I have never heard it taught .

I'm glad for that. Of course it makes me wonder how old you are and if you were a Christian in the 80's where you lived, because things may have been very different in other areas, especially the Bible Belt states. I'm not saying I heard this preached from a pulpit but the friends I had in my first church basically used to say this to me. I never bought it which lead to many a debate I had with them. I always felt I knew inside myself that even after we are saved we will still have to answer for sins. I see this all over the NT. But I was always told I was wrong. I'm not wrong.

Right you are .

And that is exactly where I was going with my answer is that if you are in Christ then why would you want to sin anyway  . 

The Temptation of sin is always there but if you are in Christ then the attractive temptation of sin will lose it's shiny luster more and more with each passing day .

If you told me today that I could engage in sinful behavior I did before I knew Christ and not have to suffer for it at all , it would not matter to me at all , and would not cause me to change

the path I have chosen at all . 

In Him is my pleasure and fullness of joy forevermore .

[Sevenseas]

11 hours ago, listener24 said:

I agree with @shiloh357 and @Sevenseas

If a "pastor" ask to blindly follow a wrong suggestion, and the "asker" blindly follows the suggestion, the sin is on both. They are both violating Matthew 23.

Because Jesus said:

 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

Therefore, instead of this:

SCENARIO 1 (against Matthew 23)

"Pastor: here's is the suggestion. Follow it because I'm your pastor"

"Normal Christian: ok, I'll do what you say pastor".

A more healthy situation would be:

SCENARIO 2 (In line with Matthew 23)

Normal Christian 1: "Hey here's is a suggestion. But remember, I'm a man like you. Examine the Scriptures with your brain and make sure that what I'm saying is Scriptural"

Normal Christian 2: "Thank you for the suggestion. I will examine the Scriptures with my brain, and see if the direction you suggested me is in line of Jesus' teachings".

 

Now for scenario 2 to work, each Christian must have a daily relationship with the Word. It's not enough to read it once in a while and think that some "pastor" or "teacher" will explain us what we need to know

 

 

 

 

 

examine the scriptures with your brain

made me LOL but it's the truth

renew your mind according to the word...and use the brain God gave you please