Whom are "They"?

[Whistleblower]

20 hours ago, Abby-Joy said:

Exactly... and just because other versions are worded differently, adding to what the original said doesn't make it better or more accurate.  

The KJV states it already... just read in context.  The KJV mentions the watchers.  

Daniel 4:17-28
17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.

19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonied for one hour, and his thoughts troubled him. The king spake, and said, Belteshazzar, let not the dream, or the interpretation thereof, trouble thee. Belteshazzar answered and said, My lord, the dream be to them that hate thee, and the interpretation thereof to thine enemies.

20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;

21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:

22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;

24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:

25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

26 And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.

27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

28 All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.

 

And the they would of course be Satan/Death and His fallen angels/messangers : )

Dont believe in The King of the Living? Go meet the king of Death in person Defacto.

Why do you believe Our Father put us in these dirt filters/ flesh bodies?

Satan and his 3 unclean spirits are incapable of even making something this sophisticated, even though its still and animal state of being.

And Christ/Messiah is the only One that makes us any better than animals : )

Have a great day/night in Church/Christ/Messiah All ?

[Whistleblower]

1 minute ago, Whistleblower said:

And the they would of course be Satan/Death and His fallen angels/messangers : )

Dont believe in The King of the Living? Go meet the king of Death in person Defacto.

Why do you believe Our Father put us in these dirt filters/ flesh bodies?

Satan and his 3 unclean spirits are incapable of even making something this sophisticated, even though its still and animal state of being.

And Christ/Messiah is the only One that makes us any better than animals : )

Have a great day/night in Church/Christ/Messiah All ?

forgot; even the animals seem nicer than humans : )

[Mystic_Pizza]

23 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Daniel 4:25 (KJV) That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. [Emphasis mine]

It's interesting to note that "they" are not identified. I have my own opinion whom "they" might be. I'm curious to hear your opinions on whom "they" might be.

This chapter is so extremely descriptive and detailed, I find it very curious a pronoun is used to identify whom is to accomplish this task?

Not that it even remotely fits, but the thought just popped into my head, as thoughts will, lol....but....doesn't the Queen, and various Kings refer to themselves as 'we'? As in....my all time fav...."We are NOT amused", lol. Maybe this is sort of like that- as someone else said, it's KJV, not my favorite either. I personally love NIV, but that's just me, lol.

[other one]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

That's an interesting point I had questions on myself and dug around a bit. As you know, the Septuagint was completed around 300 B.C and a copy could have been available to anyone with money, lots of money. I wondered from where Jesus and the Apostles quoted O.T. scripture from. With a little study and assumptions, I came to the thought that even a copy of a scroll, much less a copy of the Septuagint would have been financially prohibitive to own a personal copy unless one was wealthy.

In Luke 4: 16-20 Jesus was quoting Isiah from a 'book' (KJV) given to Him and not a scroll at the synagogue in Nazareth. It stands to reason the common Jew's learned religion and scripture by listening, reading and memorizing O.T. scripture at their synagogue; Saul being the scholar exception taught by Gamaliel. No doubt the Temple and Jewish synagogues would have had the best copies of all the religious scrolls, books and laws. 

So, in my opinion, it's possible in many cases where O.T. scripture is quoted after 300 B.C. in the N.T.; and it's not identified as reading from a scroll; it could have been the Septuagint? 

One thing I still wonder about, and this is just from memory. So much was found at Qumran with the Dead Sea Scrolls; Book of the Giants, Book of Enoch, almost the entire book of Isiah, fragments of every O.T. Book except Esther I believe, etc. Since it is believed these parchments were hidden to be preserved prior to the sacking of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, to my memory nothing pertaining to the Septuagint was saved or found? Perhaps because copies were so wide spread???

it is my understanding that the Septuagint was the book that was most common to people.   But if you do some research, it is my experience that you can get so many different thoughts that it is difficult to decide yes or no....   but at least it's good to know that 70 or 72 of the top scholars at the time it was translated did their best to capture the full Hebrew and it adds the context of their thought process at the time.

I personally have decided that we make things way too complicated about it all anyway.   The gospel is really simple.....   Christ crucified/resurrected and returning and if we take him as our Lord and make it known publicly we will spend eternity with him.    Taking him as Lord can be a little complicated at times throughout our lifetimes, but he's really on our side and will help us along...…        anyway that's how I see things that are most important....   the rest is just history or someone else's problem.

Edited December 6, 2018 by other one

[JustPassingThru]

13 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

In Luke 4: 16-20 Jesus was quoting Isiah from a 'book' (KJV) given to Him and not a scroll at the synagogue in Nazareth.

Huh?

Isn't the word book translated from the Greek word biblion which means a book or a scroll and it's a diminutive  of biblos, which means a written book, roll or scroll.

You mentioned the Dead Sea Scrolls, among them was found the Scroll of Isaiah, tested and proved to be written 100-150 years before the birth of Jesus, it's on display in Jerusalem housed in The Shrine of the Book in the Israel Museum, ...it's a scroll 24 feet long, 10 to 16 inches wide with 54 columns, it's written from right to left, ...Luke records that He found the place, Is 61:1 is written in the 51st column, a quick calculation tell us each column is approximately 5 3/8 inches wide, to find Isaiah 61 Jesus unwound over 22' of the scroll, ...and Dr Luke records all eyes were upon Him, ...I guess so!  Just my two cents.

Lord bless   

[Whistleblower]

Any other transliteration of the Bible besides the KJV is nothing more than compounded errors; though one may attain truth in others versions, its going to be harder and take longer.period

Yes they may be easier to read & believe; But much harder to study & understand.

And after all, it shows consideration for those who sacrificed their flesh bodies standing for what is right, at all costs;to bring this textbook/ Bible to the nations.

Thank You's Faithkeepers ( those born before 1948)

But this Generation?

Dueteronomy CH 32, just for You's ?