Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[The Light]

On 3/28/2019 at 8:50 AM, iamlamad said:

The church has been waiting between the 5th and 6th seals all this time.

None of the seals have been opened. They will not be opened until after the pretribulation rapture. We can prove the rapture of the church will occur before the seals are opened by noting that there are 24 elders in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened.

There as so many FACTS that you look past.

[iamlamad]

Just now, The Light said:

None of the seals have been opened. They will not be opened until after the pretribulation rapture. We can prove the rapture of the church will occur before the seals are opened by noting that there are 24 elders in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened.

There as so many FACTS that you look past.

You can write myths of you choose. The FACTS are chapters 4 & 5 that show us the real context of that first seal. Did you just ignore those chapters? Did you not read how John saw the very moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down? WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down? It was around 32 AD. So that was the year Jesus got the book into His hands and began opening the seals. You are 2000 years off!  It should be obvious that the 24 elders are NOT representing the raptured church! Throw that theory out. Go by the context! Note carefully that Jesus was NOT seen at the right hand of the father in chapter , when we have over a dozen verses telling He SHOULD have been seen there. Stephen SAW Him there. 

Then take careful note that in the first search for one worthy to open the seals, NO MAN was found. This shows us TIMING: John is seeing a vision of a time while Jesus was still on the earth or under the earth.

Then note that TIME PASSED and another search (or searches) was accomplished and suddenly JESUS was found worthy. Why this time He WAS found worthy, when in the first search John watched He was NOT found worthy? TIME PASSED and Jesus rose from the dead! 

Then, John saw the very moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. Always remember, this is the CONTEXT of the first seal. Pull it out of this first century context and you can make it represent anything - but you will be miles from the Author's intent. 

The truth is, no one knows who those 24 elders are.  A theory is, they are those that Jesus rose when He rose, or a part of them. 

You can see now that you have looked past the true FACTS.

[The Light]

20 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You can write myths of you choose. The FACTS are chapters 4 & 5 that show us the real context of that first seal. Did you just ignore those chapters? Did you not read how John saw the very moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down? WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down? It was around 32 AD.

 

We can see that the Holy Spirit has already been sent down in Rev 2 and 3 with quotes like: Rev 2 ²⁹ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Just more facts you seem to skip over.

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, The Light said:

We can see that the Holy Spirit has already been sent down in Rev 2 and 3 with quotes like: Rev 2 ²⁹ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Just more facts you seem to skip over.

Revelation chapters 1-3 are realtime, with John in Jesus present around 95 AD. Chapters 4 & 5 are a VISION. Surely you know the difference.

[Spock]

On 3/28/2019 at 1:51 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

We`ve had a good discussion but anymore would just be going over old ground.

regards, Marilyn.

Hey Marilyn,

Are you okay or on vacation? 

I hate to be a pest, but you said you would should me clear and convincing evidence as to why the rapture occurs before the pe@ce treaty. 

I should you, In my opinion, pretty strong evidence to show the rapture occurs pretty much around the mid point of Daniels week. Naturally, you didn’t buy it.

So now it is your turn ......my turn to give you a well done, a nice try, or a maybe. 

Spock

PS  I do hope everything is all right with you and family. I haven’t seen you around in a week and I don’t recall you telling us you would be gone. Let me know if you are reading this so I can sleep better at night. 

 

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

Hey Marilyn,

Are you okay or on vacation? 

I hate to be a pest, but you said you would should me clear and convincing evidence as to why the rapture occurs before the pe@ce treaty. 

I should you, In my opinion, pretty strong evidence to show the rapture occurs pretty much around the mid point of Daniels week. Naturally, you didn’t buy it.

So now it is your turn ......my turn to give you a well done, a nice try, or a maybe. 

Spock

PS  I do hope everything is all right with you and family. I haven’t seen you around in a week and I don’t recall you telling us you would be gone. Let me know if you are reading this so I can sleep better at night. 

 

Hi Spock,

So sorry bro. I have written you a PM with the details, so look forward to your comments.

Marilyn.

[Jude1]

I believe in the mid-tribulation and the post-tribulation pre-wrath rapture, I believe that Jesus could come during or near the end of the tribulation.

(The disciples ask Jesus what the signs of the second coming and the end times are)

Matthew 24:1-3 (MEV)

"Jesus departed from the temple and was leaving when His disciples came to show Him the temple buildings.  Jesus answered them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another that shall not be thrown down.  As He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?"

(Describing the tribulation)

Matthew 24:4 (MEV)

"Jesus answered them, “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled. For all these things must happen, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines, epidemics, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows."

(Rapture) (Immediately after the tribulation the Son of Man will come in the clouds)

Matthew 24:29-31 (MEV)

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days,

‘the sun will be darkened,
    the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from heaven,
    and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

(Rapture) (After the tribulation ends you will see the Messiah coming in the clouds)

Mark 13:24-27 (TLB)

"After the tribulation ends, then the sun will grow dim and the moon will not shine, and the stars will fall—the heavens will convulse.

Then all mankind will see me, the Messiah, coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And I will send out the angels to gather together my chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest bounds of earth and heaven."

(The day of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ will not coming until the antichrist is revealed)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (MEV)

"Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and concerning our gathering together unto Him, we ask you not to let your mind be quickly shaken or be troubled, neither in spirit nor by word, nor by letter coming as though from us, as if the day of Christ is already here. Do not let anyone deceive you in any way. For that Day will not come unless a falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself as God."

 

[Spock]

On 5/1/2019 at 2:28 PM, Jude1 said:

I believe in the mid-tribulation and the post-tribulation pre-wrath rapture, I believe that Jesus could come during or near the end of the tribulation.

(The disciples ask Jesus what the signs of the second coming and the end times are)

Matthew 24:1-3 (MEV)

"Jesus departed from the temple and was leaving when His disciples came to show Him the temple buildings.  Jesus answered them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another that shall not be thrown down.  As He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?"

(Describing the tribulation)

Matthew 24:4 (MEV)

"Jesus answered them, “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled. For all these things must happen, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines, epidemics, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows."

(Rapture) (Immediately after the tribulation the Son of Man will come in the clouds)

Matthew 24:29-31 (MEV)

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days,

‘the sun will be darkened,
    the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from heaven,
    and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

(Rapture) (After the tribulation ends you will see the Messiah coming in the clouds)

Mark 13:24-27 (TLB)

"After the tribulation ends, then the sun will grow dim and the moon will not shine, and the stars will fall—the heavens will convulse.

Then all mankind will see me, the Messiah, coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And I will send out the angels to gather together my chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest bounds of earth and heaven."

(The day of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ will not coming until the antichrist is revealed)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (MEV)

"Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and concerning our gathering together unto Him, we ask you not to let your mind be quickly shaken or be troubled, neither in spirit nor by word, nor by letter coming as though from us, as if the day of Christ is already here. Do not let anyone deceive you in any way. For that Day will not come unless a falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself as God."

 

Greetings brother Jude,

I can see at least three, million dollar questions that have come out of your post here:

1. When does the 6th seal take place? I am leaning toward believing it may take place around the middle of Daniels 70th week. Of course, if it comes before the week, I’m cool with that too. But I really expect to see the “covenant being confirmed”, the Jews rebuild their temple, and the sacrifices resuming. 

2. When is the man of sin revealed pursuant to 2 Thess 2?  Is it at the covenant being confirmed or when the abomination of desolation occurs?  I happen to believe it may be at the abomination date. 

3. What does “after the tribulation” mean?  Is it everything that occurs before the abomination? Does it cover the entire 7 year period? Does it cover everything before the 7 year week?  As for me, I’m open to thinking this is everything that happens before GREAT TRIBULATION.  I’m sure we all can agree there has been tribulation ever since Christ left this planet and ascended to Heaven.  We all must go through much trial and tribulation before we can enter Heaven. 

I don’t want to be redundant here but I think I’ve been clear outlining my position thinking there is a good chance the rapture will occur mid week. 

Shalom,

spock

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

 

3. What does “after the tribulation” mean?  Is it everything that occurs before the abomination? Does it cover the entire 7 year period? Does it cover everything before the 7 year week?  As for me, I’m open to thinking this is everything that happens before GREAT TRIBULATION.  I’m sure we all can agree there has been tribulation ever since Christ left this planet and ascended to Heaven.  We all must go through much trial and tribulation before we can enter Heaven. 

I don’t want to be redundant here but I think I’ve been clear outlining my position thinking there is a good chance the rapture will occur mid week. 

Shalom,

spock

Hi Spock,

Just thought I`d pop in this scripture -

`For then there will be great tribulation, SUCH AS HAS NOT BEEN SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN UNTIL THIS TIME, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21)

regards, Marilyn.

[OldCoot]

On 3/31/2019 at 9:00 AM, iamlamad said:

The FACTS are chapters 4 & 5 that show us the real context of that first seal. Did you just ignore those chapters? Did you not read how John saw the very moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down? WHEN did Jesus ascend and send the Holy Spirit down? It was around 32 AD.

Except it doesn't say any of that in Revelation 4 & 5.

And it couldn't be in 32AD even if it was in the first century. Those churches of chapters 2 & 3 that had been written to are real churches that did not exist in 32AD. 

And John is quite clear in the opening verse of Chapter 4.... "after these things" which "these things" has it direct object of the "churches" that had been written to previously.   So whatever time frame is being referenced by John, it is after these churches and definitely after 32AD.   And the first seal is not broken until "after these things" which is after the churches.   And that it couldn't refer to 32AD would be especially true since many of the early church writers who knew John or knew Polycarp, one of John's students, wrote that the Revelation was written around 95AD.  

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by OldCoot