Does God Need to Be Defended By Us?

[thomas t]

Hi everyone,

a fellow poster pondered about this question here

I also would say, God isn't in need of us.

However, when they attack him they attack us, I fear.

My mother used to say, Paul's writings were guilty of anti-women bias. But she took it to the personal level against Paul saying "Paul is _____". Christians think that Paul was inspired by God when he wrote part of the Bible, so it seems it is an attack on God.

When I started a new life in 2002 asking Jesus to be my savior, my mother also attacked me calling me mentally ill.

The Bible says Matthew 10:25 It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household.

I want to have God as my teacher, so my mother attacking me is just what God's word predicted, I think.

So when they attack God, I think, we should speak up. This would be just natural when we feel that he is our father, in my opinion.

Regards,

Thomas

 

---

Edit:

I should add that my mother added all sorts of other attacks, too, and the other family members, my father and my sister, joined her in doing so... and this made me mentally ill. So ironically, when my mother declared me ill it was like a self-fulfilling prophecy ?. As I remembered how my childhood devellopped my illness got worse and stayed for long years.

So I conclude: God might not be vulnerable, we are.

Edited March 13, 2019 by thomas t
see below Edit line

[Tzephanyahu]

13 minutes ago, thomas t said:

My mother used to say, Paul's writings were guilty of anti-women bias. But she took it to the personal level against Paul saying "Paul is _____". Christians think that Paul was inspired by God when he wrote part of the Bible, so it seems it is an attack on God.

Shalom brother,

Yes, Paul is misunderstood on this matter.  A lot of women take offence straight away, without looking into the context properly or even just blaming Paul directly (as if he was a man who pushed his own agenda!).  Yet, if the Lord said the exact same thing, I wonder how they would react then... ?

We all have to question what we hold on to with such passion when it is contrary to the Bible's teaching. And if anyone's argument before God, on the Day of Judgement, is to criticise the characters of His chosen apostles and prophets, they won't like the outcome.

I think you are right in a way - we should defend our Father.  Yet this is a sensitive matter as it can quickly lead to an attitude that is dark with zealousness. I mean, where do you draw the line?  Therefore, maybe the defence of the Father should be love.  If they attack Paul or the Word, maybe it's better to say "Well, you don't have to believe it, but I do, fully".  And if they object thereafter with "How can you agree with this or that?!", you can respond "Why are you getting so upset? if you don't believe it's true, what's the problem?".

Sometimes silence and adherence to the Word speaks as a defence to such people. Probably because they wonder "Why is he okay with it? Am I missing something obvious here?". This can then lead to study, discussion or reexamining. All profitable outcomes.

However, sometimes defence is needed.  As long we speak with love and patience and with someone who is genuinely confused (rather than to someone who has no intention to learn and change) then there will be amazing outcomes here also.

Anyway, I'm sure your zeal for defend our Father hasn't escaped His noticed though. May He bless you with a gift to serve Him in this capacity to help others. 

Love & Shalom

[thomas t]

Hi Tzephanyahu,

thank you for your very encouraging words!

Just to clarify: my mother was a theist who believed in Jesus, she even had input from the holy spirit, she said. She told me one of her visions - actually, one was about my life - and I found it to be true so I suppose it came from the Lord indeed.

However, she proposed what I would call another gospel. Discussing John 3:7, which is the verse about being born again, she just made it clear that she has another opinion concerning that one. She said you don't need to be born again. My mother and I don't have contact that's why I'm writing in past tense, maybe she has changed.

But now let's turn to discussing things with non-believers:

22 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said:

As long we speak with love and patience

currently, non-believers seem to banned from posting on this board, at least they don't do now. There's no intertaction with them, it seems? So there can't be love concerning our attitude towards them, I would infer, at least online, on this board.

But don't get me wrong: this board is amazing. I very much like the praises section, theology and fellowship.

Regards,

Thomas

[Tzephanyahu]

28 minutes ago, thomas t said:

currently, non-believers seem to banned from posting on this board

Shalom Thomas,

What!? Is that true? If so, how tragic it is!  We should never turn non-believers away!  Yes, you are going to get trolls from time to time, but what if we get 19 trolls and 1 who is genuinely interested to learn in every 20, isn't that worth it?  Hmm, that's put me in a mood now, but hopefully you're wrong about that rule! 

As for what you mentioned about your mother, we know that the Spirit can still speak through those who aren't correctly aligned with God at times. Consider Saul being made to prophesy when chasing David, or the prophet Balaam blessing Israel in Numbers. So the word or vision may have been from the Lord, but it may not have been. Other spirits can be at work too unfortunately. I'm not saying that was the case with your mother necessarily though. 

You seem like you are wise enough to perceive her words and directions correctly though. I have faith in you discerning this matter, for some reason.   But anytime she speaks against the Word, it's either with bad intentions or because of a misunderstanding. I favour the latter, as I know I have made terrible conclusions from misunderstandings in the past about the Word! Oye.  

I guess the most important thing is to always be open to be corrected by the Word, not the other way around.  It would prove tricky to argue with God that we understand salvation more than His apostles. So I hope, with you, that she can eventually take a more humble towards Scripture.

Love & Shalom

Edited March 14, 2019 by Tzephanyahu

[thomas t]

4 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

What!? Is that true? If so, how tragic it is!  We should never turn non-believers away!  Yes, you are going to get trolls from time to time, but what if we get 19 trolls and 1 who is genuinely interested to learn in every 20, isn't that worth it? 

Hi Tzephanyahu,

well at least they don't post as it used to be. I haven't seen one single post from them within months. The last thread which had participation from the non-believing side lasted until they found out he was non-believing.

But I of course assume that any board decision in that sense was spirit-lead, too.

So we could ask ourselves as to why the holy spirit tells them to not let non-believers post?

My explanation: there are far too many posters on the believing side who use accusations as a means of discussing, not backing up what they say. So the Holy Spirit stops them from sinning by leading the board leaders to decide non-believers are out? Maybe...

Regards,

Thomas

 

[Tzephanyahu]

24 minutes ago, thomas t said:

there are far too many posters on the believing side who use accusations as a means of discussing, not backing up what they say. So the Holy Spirit stops them from sinning by leading the board leaders to decide non-believers are out? Maybe...

Shalom Brother,

Wow. Interesting point!  In a way that kinda makes me sadder than the Spirit not being involved in the decision.

What you say is true. It's very sad that we can't all speak to each other with the love and respect that we would speak to the Messiah with, or His apostles.

There was a certain newbie who joined recently who was a non-believer and had a question of Adam and Eve. Yes, it was delivered it a cutting way and with hint of mockery - but that's how non-believers can act around Christians when they are poking around for truth, hoping for an answer.  I replied in length but the post was deleted.  Either by the non-believer or by someone else.   I would hate for them to think we cannot answer their questions and so solidify their doubts. But I suppose you are right - I'd rather that, than for them to see us bicker at each other with scriptures and with an aggressive 'love', saying "no, you're wrong! no, you're in error! Pray the Lord leads you to the truth!".  Yuck...  I can imagine how that would look to a non-believer. Not really inviting, loving, tolerant or peaceful.  Yes, people need to be corrected from time to time, but politeness, respect and PMing are always available!

Oh well.  Let us, and everyone who is not involved in such ways, work extra hard to win out with the fruit of Spirit "love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control" so that non-believers will see the light of the Messiah through this forum.

Love & Shalom    

[AnOrangeCat]

Hello! To answer the question, no. God doesn't need defending. People can be critical of God but they only hurt themselves in doing so. However, it is through debate and us "defending" God that some come to believe, the inquisitive get answers, and the faithful find their faith strengthened. There's importance in all of that.

[Who me]

Does God Need to Be Defended By Us?

 

Simple No, but we do need to give a reason for our belief.

 

The questions.    Why do you believe that?

and What evidence do you have for that belief?

are valuable in that they make people justify what they believe, often on very flimsy grounds, but they are double edged if we cannot answer them.

 

 

Christianity has nothing to do with claims, " All you need is faith!" or 'Only believe!'

Christianity is based on historical facts, not wishful thinking.

[other one]

On 3/13/2019 at 5:41 AM, thomas t said:

Hi everyone,

a fellow poster pondered about this question here

I also would say, God isn't in need of us.

However, when they attack him they attack us, I fear.

My mother used to say, Paul's writings were guilty of anti-women bias. But she took it to the personal level against Paul saying "Paul is _____". Christians think that Paul was inspired by God when he wrote part of the Bible, so it seems it is an attack on God.

When I started a new life in 2002 asking Jesus to be my savior, my mother also attacked me calling me mentally ill.

The Bible says Matthew 10:25 It is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household.

I want to have God as my teacher, so my mother attacking me is just what God's word predicted, I think.

So when they attack God, I think, we should speak up. This would be just natural when we feel that he is our father, in my opinion.

Regards,

Thomas

 

---

Edit:

I should add that my mother added all sorts of other attacks, too, and the other family members, my father and my sister, joined her in doing so... and this made me mentally ill. So ironically, when my mother declared me ill it was like a self-fulfilling prophecy ?. As I remembered how my childhood devellopped my illness got worse and stayed for long years.

So I conclude: God might not be vulnerable, we are.

tell your mother that she needs to study history and discover the general knowledge and the complete cosmology of the days when the Bible was written....   Other than the Gospels most of the new testament are letters written to individual people or groups of people discussing the things they were doing wrong or problems they were having in that church or group of people....   and I personally don't see it as speaking to us directly today unless we are doing the same things wrong....      Understanding what the people of that day believed before the gospel helps understand the context of what was being written.....    and there are a few translation problems where there just are not English words that carry the context into English.

If you are writing a letter to a group that is having problems with alpha females dominating things it's hard to do without looking a bit like you don't like women....    the people he was writing to understood.

 

[thomas t]

Hi Who me,

very interesting answer again.

 

21 hours ago, Who me said:

but [the quetions from non-believers] are double edged if we cannot answer them

You nailed it, I'm afraid.

The amount of insults stemming from the Christian side against inquirers only indicates that, currently, we as Christians can't bear our faith getting scrutinized, I would say.

Regards,

Thomas