Steward George Posted April 4, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,464 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,762 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,434 Days Won: 128 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted April 4, 2019 ... again ... you need to separate the person from the works. For example, a great many people HATE former president Obama ... and to what end? How could you possibly pray for a leader whom you hate as the Bible so says to do? Remember that during the 1st century ... Nero was killing Christians left and right ... he was a type of antichrist -- did you read in any place whereby Paul said to hate him? Or any of the leaders in the 1st century? These were Christians who were dying for their faith ... and yet, we read over and over again ... Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Rom 13:5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 1Pe 2:13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 1Pe 2:14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. So again ... if you are fighting to justify why you should hate your enemy ... from the Old Testament ... you have failed to understand the full revelation of God's Word. The apostles faced death and died for their faith ... without harboring any hatred ... who did they learn this from? From Jesus Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted April 4, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 4, 2019 7 hours ago, pinacled said: The Lord never asked anyone to forgive a murderer. So I'm not sure of what sort of love you are speaking of. Jesus said to love our enemies. Isnt a murderer an enemy? Matthew 5:43 You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy." 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you, 45 so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax-collectors do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted April 4, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 4, 2019 5 hours ago, Ogner said: You attention to situations in which Jesus and Stephen were killed by children of satan. What do you expect me to do about it now? Should I assume that's reason to love those who shows no remorse for their crime and happy when can hurt me? How do you feel when you see innocent people get killed? You feel that you love murderers? When innocent people get killed it's not reason to love their murderers. It's a question of who you have compassion for. Do you think that you must love murderers? Do you think Jesus could taught us how to love murderers? Jesus and Stephan did their utmost to prove otherwise I have been in such a situation. My husband's brother was murdered. I have forgiven his murderer and pray for him. I know it is what the Lord wants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted April 4, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, pinacled said: No it is not. Never does the Lord ever ask any of his children to forgive and accept a murderer at his table. Jesus said in the Lord's prayer: Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. He also told us the parable: Matthew 18:21 ¶ Then Peter came to Him and said, Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Until seven times? 22 Jesus said to him, I do not say to you, Until seven times; but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of Heaven has been compared to a certain king who desired to make an accounting with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to count, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he had nothing to pay, his lord commanded that he, and his wife and children, and all that he had, be sold, and payment be made. 26 Then the servant fell down and worshiped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me and I will pay you all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. And he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me what you owe. 29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, Have patience with me and I will pay you all. 30 And he would not, but went and cast him into prison until he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry. And they came and told their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after he had called him, said to him, O wicked servant, I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have pitied your fellow servant, even as I had pity on you? 34 And his lord was angry, and delivered him to the tormentors until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also to you, unless each one of you from your hearts forgive his brother their trespasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted April 5, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 18 hours ago, George said: ... again ... you need to separate the person from the works. For example, a great many people HATE former president Obama ... and to what end? How could you possibly pray for a leader whom you hate as the Bible so says to do? Remember that during the 1st century ... Nero was killing Christians left and right ... he was a type of antichrist -- did you read in any place whereby Paul said to hate him? Or any of the leaders in the 1st century? These were Christians who were dying for their faith ... and yet, we read over and over again ... Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Rom 13:5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 1Pe 2:13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 1Pe 2:14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. So again ... if you are fighting to justify why you should hate your enemy ... from the Old Testament ... you have failed to understand the full revelation of God's Word. The apostles faced death and died for their faith ... without harboring any hatred ... who did they learn this from? From Jesus Himself. I don't even know what does that prove? How does any of this prove that I should love those who shows no remorse for their crime and happy when can hurt me? How does this prove that: - I should love antichrists, witch, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains or what? - if criminals want to take my shirt, I must hand over them coat as well? - If I'm a victim of a crime I can't go to court? - I should be thankful to criminals for I have been the victim of crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SisterActs2 Posted April 5, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,000 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 1,655 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/27/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1950 Share Posted April 5, 2019 15 hours ago, ayin jade said: I have been in such a situation. My husband's brother was murdered. I have forgiven his murderer and pray for him. I know it is what the Lord wants Amen Ayin Jade! We are not to judge. God is the only judge - therefore we are to forgive, however hard that may be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted April 5, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,464 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,762 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,434 Days Won: 128 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ogner said: How does any of this prove that I should love those who shows no remorse for their crime and happy when can hurt me? How does this prove that: - I should love antichrists, witch, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains or what? - if criminals want to take my shirt, I must hand over them coat as well? - If I'm a victim of a crime I can't go to court? - I should be thankful to criminals for I have been the victim of crime? If someone hurts you ... you can obviously seek justice in a court of law and nobody is suggesting otherwise. However, in seeking justice -- one does not have to turn that seeking justice into hate. It's that simple. Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflicted and needy. Psa 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy; save them out of the hand of the wicked. Psa 33:5 He loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of the steadfast love of the LORD. Zec 7:9 So speaks Jehovah of Hosts, saying, Judge true judgment, and practice kindness and pity, each man to his brother. Zec 7:10 And do not crush the widow or the orphan, the alien or the poor. And do not devise evil in your heart, of a man against his brother. Simply speaking ... separate the SIN from the SINNER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted April 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted April 5, 2019 In a word YES. We have no choice, not if you want to obey God. (if you aren't interested in obeying the Lord why are you even reading this) It's not easy to love those who hate us, it's usually not even easy to love those who love us but we must do it. And remember this, when you do obey this order you make this world a little bit of a better place. This is what being the salt of the earth means. Have you ever tasted food that wasn't salted, I mean no salt at all? Not too good was it. Add some salt and it gets better. We do that to life when we choose to love others, both those who hate us and those who love us. Also remember, God made this a necessity it isn't optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted April 5, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, George said: If someone hurts you ... you can obviously seek justice in a court of law and nobody is suggesting otherwise. However, in seeking justice -- one does not have to turn that seeking justice into hate. It's that simple. Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflicted and needy. Psa 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy; save them out of the hand of the wicked. Psa 33:5 He loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of the steadfast love of the LORD. Zec 7:9 So speaks Jehovah of Hosts, saying, Judge true judgment, and practice kindness and pity, each man to his brother. Zec 7:10 And do not crush the widow or the orphan, the alien or the poor. And do not devise evil in your heart, of a man against his brother. Simply speaking ... separate the SIN from the SINNER! Psalms 5: 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man. Psalms 139:19-22 'Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O Lord , that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. ' John 3:36 'He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.' Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. God hates all who do iniquity and Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man. David hated them from the bottom of his heart. God’s wrath remains on them because they reject Jesus. God hates and abhor them. David hates them. Why can't I? Because you say so, I can't? I am going to follow God's example. "Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye." (Ac.4:19) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted April 5, 2019 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,464 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,762 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,434 Days Won: 128 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted April 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ogner said: God hates and abhor them. David hates them. Why can't I? Because you say so, I can't? I am going to follow God's example. Amazingly, you can take a single Scripture out ... and refuse to read the MULTIPLE verses that say otherwise ... be careful of how HATE can consume someone ... 1 John 3:15 Everyone hating his brother is a murderer. And you know that no murderer has everlasting life abiding in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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