Shall we be blessed if we bless Israel and be cursed if we curse ?

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:09 AM, R. Hartono said:

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee....

Imho the above verse showed that God was speaking to somebody (Abraham) who lived at that certain time (2100 BC).

 God said this to  Abraham when he gave him righteousness and the sircumsision and promise him that he will be a Patriarch of a Nation, and he sojourned in the Land of Canaan (the Lord's Land),  which Land the Lord gave to Abraham as his inheritance.

This was a promise to aleviate any fear Abraham may have had, and at the same time to put fear to those who wanted to hurm him, and at the same time as a window for God to show his kindness to the people whom God had rejected because of not fault of their own...

Being born unclean and God had Judge them that they will remain unclean by not probiding a way to cleansed them from their uncleaness, but he did that only for Abraham and his chosen seed...  But God left a window open for them to have his blessings by blessing Abraham...

Careful now, because at this time we do not have something that came later on in the dessert the "eye against an eye.,,.which it was between God and his people the Israelites, and it was decoded in the Law of Moses...

So it is imperative to have the two groups of people as this it was also said to the other Nations, starting with their neibours.....

WHICH WERE "GENTILES". 

It was also a way for the gentiles to have a blessing from God for themselfs...

There is an example how Egypt was bless for helping Abraham during the famine in Canaan.  And also how they were bless for helping Jacob during the famine....and having them live and multiple in Egypt...

So this is the ultimate question....

Does we still have the division on the earth as in the "Jews", or the people of God, as God being only for them, and not for the rest of the world, and God was also the Judge of his own people within the Law of Moses...

Which as a result of the Law...the Israelites found themselfs in the same situation as the Gentiles found them selfs in relation to Abraham before the Law was given....

If the Israelites they bless their God with their obedience to the Law of Moses, they will be bless by their Lord and God, and if they disobeyed the Law of Moses they will be Judged by their Lord God, or by the Law, both by God and by the Law, by means of those who enforced the Law of Moses in their Land...

As they were in a covenant with their Lord and their God, as in the "eye against an eye, and a tooth against a tooth", principal. 

So in the times of Abraham before and after the Law, as long we have the two divisions in the world, the Gentiles and Abraham and his descendants as long as the Law apllies...

Before the Law it was the righteous blood of Abraham and the sircumsision, and later It was the Law who devided the people in two divisions the clean and the unclean and the people of God and the Gentiles. 

And we also need to have the Creator who was the God of Abraham and the Lord God of his seed only, and later the Lord God of the Israelites only, or the God and Lord for the Jews only, with the Law. who put into effect those rules, and did the Judging and the enforcemen. 

These are some of the prerequisites to have in place as to say that these rules are still in effect or that something have happened that they are not in effect anymore. 

For this apllies only before Jesus death on the Cross. 

 

 

[R. Hartono]

11 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi Hartono,

let me tell you something from within my own family. My grandmother married a former senior commander from the German SS. As he hadn't partaken in the combatting himself, he went to all the houses abandoned by the Jews, instead. As we all know, those had been deported back then. Together with a colleague, he had taken all the money + valuable things left behind from the Jews. And when the war was over he found himself "blessed" with a big fortune.

Instead of giving it back to the Jews he stealed from, he founded an enterprise.

And now the curse: that company went bankrupt. His marriage failed and ended in a divorce. But according to German law he was individually liable because of his inability to pay. Fearing that they might take his house which was a big townhouse in a prime location in Hamburg, northern Germany... he conveyed it to one of his sons (my uncle). Never paying anything back to the Jews. My uncle sold the house but lost the money. Later he emigrated to the USA but, according to the American police, he died in a car accident. Shortly after, the ex-husband of my grandmother commited suicide.

Some 10 years ago I told my grandmother that I couldn't understand the way they handled the money stolen from the Jews. She was very upset because of my criticism and our contact ended. She died three years ago aged 99, however. I also distanced myself from the way my mother talked about that theft of back then... never calling it a theft herself.

I am grateful that I could express my opinion before she died.

Best regards,

Thomas

Thats quite a story man.  

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:09 AM, R. Hartono said:

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee....

Imho the above verse showed that God was speaking to somebody (Abraham) who lived at that certain time (2100 BC).

The Roman destroyed Israel in 70 AD and almost totally annihilated the Jews at the Bar Kothba rebellion in 120 AD but Roman flourishes until now.

 

This verse says nothing of Israel.

But i will tell you this.

When I believed in Christ and believed he had died for my sins and i was at that time blessed by God and given the holy spirit.

This blessing did not come from blessing or cursing a nation of unbelievers in the middle east which call itself Israel.It came through Christ.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[Kenyon]

 

 

 

On 4/21/2019 at 11:40 PM, Kristin said:

Yes. In God’s infinite wisdom, Israel’s rejection of Christ became our (gentiles) chance at salvation. We are the Body of Christ. Israel will be dealt with once we have come in full. It won’t be pretty, but Israel belongs to God. I’m sorry I can’t post scripture because I’m on a phone and I’m a truck. 

I can't tell if that sounds like Sesame Street or Paul Simon!

[R. Hartono]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:40 PM, Kristin said:

I’m on a phone and I’m a truck. 

Btw r u a truck driver?

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

This verse says nothing of Israel.

But i will tell you this.

When I believed in Christ and believed he had died for my sins and i was at that time blessed by God and given the holy spirit.

This blessing did not come from blessing or cursing a nation of unbelievers in the middle east which call itself Israel.It came through Christ.

What you say it's from the Gospels...

The Gospel of Jesus Christ the lamb of God who died for the forgivness of the sins of the whole world invites the Jews to the faith. 

The Gospel does not make a distinction between Jews and Gentiles...there is a new man on earth . 

For this saying, "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse  you", to still be in effect today we must have the seperation still in the world; Abraham and his seed, and the rest of the world. 

We must have God the Creator only for Abraham and his chosen seed only. 

And the rest of the world without or rejected by God...

We must have the "eye against an eye" or a blessing for a blessing and a curse for a curse principal, among other things...

WE MUST HAVE A WORLD WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST, AND THE CROSS 

All those things were before Jesus Christ, in the past...

After the Cross we are bless in the name of Jesus Christ, all blessings flows from his Throne...God has given him everything that Jesus needs for our blessing....

We only need to praise the name of Jesus...

Jesus cautions the disciples to leave the past behind and to ask everything from now on to him.

He said everything has been given to me....

Jesus said; pray for those who CURSE YOU and do you harm and prosecute you, and he did the same thing himself...he turned the other chick...

Jesus said to the Jews; you are of those moral people who are perishing with faith in God and you do not know it.

Jesus said; to be saved you need to believe in God and believe also in me...

If we want to bless the Jews we must help them to believe in Jesus Christ. 

Heaven belongs to Jesus Christ and to those who are redeemed by his blood...

What good it is, if you have ,( or give them), everything else in this earth, and loose your soul , or (they loose their soul ), in Hell. 

 

 

[Jared]

On 4/23/2019 at 10:57 AM, thomas t said:

Hi Hartono,

let me tell you something from within my own family. My grandmother married a former senior commander from the German SS. As he hadn't partaken in the combatting himself, he went to all the houses abandoned by the Jews, instead. As we all know, those had been deported back then. Together with a colleague, he had taken all the money + valuable things left behind from the Jews. And when the war was over he found himself "blessed" with a big fortune.

Instead of giving it back to the Jews he stealed from, he founded an enterprise.

And now the curse: that company went bankrupt. His marriage failed and ended in a divorce. But according to German law he was individually liable because of his inability to pay. Fearing that they might take his house which was a big townhouse in a prime location in Hamburg, northern Germany... he conveyed it to one of his sons (my uncle). Never paying anything back to the Jews. My uncle sold the house but lost the money. Later he emigrated to the USA but, according to the American police, he died in a car accident. Shortly after, the ex-husband of my grandmother commited suicide.

Some 10 years ago I told my grandmother that I couldn't understand the way they handled the money stolen from the Jews. She was very upset because of my criticism and our contact ended. She died three years ago aged 99, however. I also distanced myself from the way my mother talked about that theft of back then... never calling it a theft herself.

I am grateful that I could express my opinion before she died.

Best regards,

Thomas

Wow!  What an example of prophetic fulfillment.   Good for you for taking a stand for what is right.  This takes a lot of integrity and perseverance.

And to the others here - It’s no mystery, the Lord is very clear throughout scripture that the Jewish people are the apple of His eye - even though the House of Israel has fallen away at times, the Lord made an unconditional covenant with Abraham in Genesis 12 & 15 to his descendants the Jewish people - this promise of the physical land of Israel cannot be broken by disobedience, and remains in effect to this day.  The miracle of the modern day Nation of Israel is a major prophetic fulfillment, with so many accounts of how God miraculously intervened for His people is clear evidence of His promise.  Throughout history and in prophecies yet to be fulfilled, it’s clear that the Jews remains God’s chosen people - The relationship is an amazing Love story - God always has and always will fight for Israel.  Even though terrible things have happened throughout history, they are also marked by amazing redemption - and as foretold the Day of the Lord is all about the “remnant” of the House of Israel.  This will be the ultimate redemption.   It all started in the Land of Israel, and it will be finished in the Land of Israel.  And the true followers of Jesus within the church have been grafted into the House Israel, and have the privilege & honour of taking part.

Blessings and Shalom!

Edited April 25, 2019 by Jared

[R. Hartono]

3 hours ago, Jared said:

Wow!  What an example of prophetic fulfillment.   Good for you for taking a stand for what is right.  This takes a lot of integrity and perseverance.

And to the others here - It’s no mystery, the Lord is very clear throughout scripture that the Jewish people are the apple of His eye -

 

God has blessed Abraham thats right, but to those Jews Jesus said :

John 12:40 “God has blinded their eyes  and closed their minds,
so that their eyes would not see, and their minds would not understand,
and they would not turn to Me, says God,  for Me to heal them.”

Further let me quote the explanation from "Your closest friendnt" :

The Gospel does not make a distinction between Jews and Gentiles...there is a new man on earth . 

For this saying, "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse  you", to still be in effect today we must have the seperation still in the world; Abraham and his seed, and the rest of the world. 

We must have God the Creator only for Abraham and his chosen seed only. 

And the rest of the world without or rejected by God...

We must have the "eye against an eye" or a blessing for a blessing and a curse for a curse principal, among other things...

WE MUST HAVE A WORLD WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST, AND THE CROSS 

All those things were before Jesus Christ, in the past...

After the Cross we are bless in the name of Jesus Christ, all blessings flows from his Throne...God has given him everything that Jesus needs for our blessing....

We only need to praise the name of Jesus...

Jesus cautions the disciples to leave the past behind and to ask everything from now on to him.

He said everything has been given to me....

[George]

5 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

We must have the "eye against an eye" or a blessing for a blessing and a curse for a curse principal, among other things...

WE MUST HAVE A WORLD WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST, AND THE CROSS 

Can you explain this ... I'm sure there are many who are wondering what you are referring ... as I don't want to misunderstand what you just stated before answering.

[R. Hartono]

17 hours ago, George said:

Can you explain this ... I'm sure there are many who are wondering what you are referring ... as I don't want to misunderstand what you just stated before answering.

It was long be4 the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.