Profile of The Man

[Jonathan Dane]

On 8/6/2019 at 11:58 AM, dhchristian said:

Then stop ignoring valid point to counter your argument. Trump is not a Jew. He is not universally applauded, in fact the opposite is true, he is universally hated. What he is doing, he is doing alone with little help as even many on the right are opposing him. he is standing up for national sovereignty, which is wholly biblical in that God created the nations for a purpose and confused the Language at Babel for a reason. He is Opposing the false unity the globalists are pushing for, (Iron mixed with Clay)… He is a Jehu character in that he is opposing the Jezebel spirit in this country. In So doing he is giving the church who is full into harlotry a time to reach repentance. I Believe he was placed there by God for a time for this purpose, but when he is gone, all hell will break loose as the Globalist re-establish control, and the Beast of Rev. 13 is just that, a globalist with seven heads, and 10 horns.... No matter how you try you cannot make Trump fit this, for he is pretty much alone in opposing globalism.... bear in mind Jehu did not end up so well after doing the will of God regarding Jezebel, so This is not trying to build Trump up as some sort of messiah, But one that he is doing the will of God for now...  He may even be the mortal wound to one of the heads of the globalist beast. 

 

Oh the irony of warning me of being political, followed up be a comment defending Trump's political policies.

The first fact you suggested I  ignored in the counter argument is, "Trump is not a Jew." Did you actually read the dialog in this thread or are you assuming what was said? I left numerous replies, equipped with Scripture suggesting that there no passages the necessitate that the AC must be Jewish. You care to offer more scriptural support than the last brother?

Your second point is that "Trump is not universally applauded." Is this supposed to disqualify him? Okay, show me a verse that says the AC is universally loved, applauded, admired, liked. If you can answer that, I'll address your other points as well. (All of which, by the way, were preempted in my book.)

Edited August 8, 2019 by Jonathan Dane

[Dennis1209]

On 6/23/2019 at 8:50 AM, Jonathan Dane said:

I don't think that is correct. (perhaps I'm wrong). Think about it, the Antichrist will sign a peace treaty at the beginning of the trib that allows Israel to rebuild their temple. That's a pretty clear indicator that many will recognize him before the mid point - not to mention that the Mark will also likely be instituted in the first half.

Before I share my view and comments... Just how close do you view the coming of the tribulation / Second coming of Christ?

[dhchristian]

42 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Oh the irony of warning me of being political, followed up be a comment defending Trump's political policies. (Nice).

The first fact you suggested I  ignored in the counter argument is, "Trump is not a Jew." Did you actually read the dialog in this thread or are you assuming what was said? I left numerous replies, equipped with Scripture suggesting that there no passages the necessitate that the AC must be Jewish. You care to offer more scriptural support than the last brother?

Your second point is that "Trump is not universally applauded." Is this supposed to disqualify him? Okay, show me a verse that says the AC is universally loved, applauded, admired, liked. If you can answer that, I'll address your other points as well. (All of which, by the way, were pte-empted in my book.)

POINT ONE

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 “But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 “I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 “How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? (john 5:41-44)

In this passage Jesus, Talking to the Jews Speaks of how they will receive another (JEW) who will come in his own name and receives Honor from other Jews that can only come from God. Being anointed King of the Jews only can come from above. Doug made some great points in his post to you, But you overlooked them. Thus the false Messiah will be a Jew who exalts himself, and comes in his own name, and Having received his honor from fellow Jews. SO, Yes I read the dialog, and how you avoided rebuttals and dodged them, and it was astonishing to watch.

POINT TWO

As to your second point, the beast will have seven heads, and ten horns. Again, You dodged this point by ignoring what I wrote above... how do you fit this into DJT? He is alone in his opposition to globalism. I Should not have to quote the verses here as they should be obvious, but Just in case see Rev. 13:1-2.... DJT does not have control of Seven heads, let alone 10 Kings. About the closest he comes is England with Brexit, and the new President of Brazil. But even they are sovereign nations, not puppet states like the former USSR had. This was my second point.. You want More scripture, Go to Daniel 11:36 Do you see DJT as prospering? If anything he is being attacked day and night by the media you love with false accusations and slander.    

By Saying DJT is a Jehu character I am not saying he is a messiah or anything like that, neither am I being political I am just defending the man himself from these false accusations which is what they amount to, until proven otherwise. I say the same to those who claim BHO is the AC. Some of the Outright lies, and racism associated with that side are outright disgusting.

The next point that you ignore of Doug's is that the beast is the "Little Horn". Although I disagree with Doug on his whole Roman kingship stuff, I agree that the Antichrist comes from a small country, and seems insignificant, But will usurp three horns in his rise to power. The U.S.A. is hardly what I call a Little Horn, as it is the Biggest horn in the World biblically speaking. Which rules out an American from being the AC., but it would not rule out say... the King of England, A little horn relatively speaking, or even one of the smaller states that still have a monarchy...  

And Here is my final point this time around... Your lead in to my comment was a false accusation. An attempt to belittle before even addressing the points made. Which was warning sign number four above. And the circumnavigating is obvious, failing to address the point on DJT being not having seven horns, and the appeal to intellect came last this time. Did you think by reversing the order, and leaving out the leftist agenda that you could fool me?   

 

[Jonathan Dane]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Before I share my view and comments... Just how close do you view the coming of the tribulation / Second coming of Christ?

4 to 7 years - 2000 years minus 7 from the resurrection of Christ.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Jonathan Dane

[Jonathan Dane]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

POINT ONE

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 “But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 “I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 “How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? (john 5:41-44)

In this passage Jesus, Talking to the Jews Speaks of how they will receive another (JEW) who will come in his own name and receives Honor from other Jews that can only come from God. Being anointed King of the Jews only can come from above. Doug made some great points in his post to you, But you overlooked them. Thus the false Messiah will be a Jew who exalts himself, and comes in his own name, and Having received his honor from fellow Jews. SO, Yes I read the dialog, and how you avoided rebuttals and dodged them, and it was astonishing to watch.

POINT TWO

As to your second point, the beast will have seven heads, and ten horns. Again, You dodged this point by ignoring what I wrote above... how do you fit this into DJT? He is alone in his opposition to globalism. I Should not have to quote the verses here as they should be obvious, but Just in case see Rev. 13:1-2.... DJT does not have control of Seven heads, let alone 10 Kings. About the closest he comes is England with Brexit, and the new President of Brazil. But even they are sovereign nations, not puppet states like the former USSR had. This was my second point.. You want More scripture, Go to Daniel 11:36 Do you see DJT as prospering? If anything he is being attacked day and night by the media you love with false accusations and slander.    

By Saying DJT is a Jehu character I am not saying he is a messiah or anything like that, neither am I being political I am just defending the man himself from these false accusations which is what they amount to, until proven otherwise. I say the same to those who claim BHO is the AC. Some of the Outright lies, and racism associated with that side are outright disgusting.

The next point that you ignore of Doug's is that the beast is the "Little Horn". Although I disagree with Doug on his whole Roman kingship stuff, I agree that the Antichrist comes from a small country, and seems insignificant, But will usurp three horns in his rise to power. The U.S.A. is hardly what I call a Little Horn, as it is the Biggest horn in the World biblically speaking. Which rules out an American from being the AC., but it would not rule out say... the King of England, A little horn relatively speaking, or even one of the smaller states that still have a monarchy...  

And Here is my final point this time around... Your lead in to my comment was a false accusation. An attempt to belittle before even addressing the points made. Which was warning sign number four above. And the circumnavigating is obvious, failing to address the point on DJT being not having seven horns, and the appeal to intellect came last this time. Did you think by reversing the order, and leaving out the leftist agenda that you could fool me?   

 

To your first point, the passage in John 5 does NOT say that a "Jew" will come in his own name. It simply says "one" will come in his own name. In fact, a genuine Jew would never come in his own name, but in the name of Yahweh. Jesus (a Jew) came in His Father's name. If you need to resort to eisegesis to support a pretext, chances are your theology is off.

I believe your second point started out (and I quote), "He (Trump) is not universally applauded, in fact, he is universally hated."

I simply asked you, "Where in Scripture does it say the Antichrist is "universally applauded?" (Or loved, liked, admired). Having a little trouble? Let me help you out. It doesn't. 

Regarding not addressing all your points: it's more effective to focus on a few at a time. (Not to mention that  I'm on the road doing this on my phone.) So far, you're not doing too well with the points I AM addressing. (your points).

You find this post astonishing. What I find astonishing are Christians like yourself, bending over backwards, defending a man who seems unable to let a truthful word proceed from his mouth. (in all due respect)

[douggg]

6 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Don't. Point?

The point is you use a double standard.   One that you falsely claim that I have not been using scripture to support my claims about the Antichrist.        While you don't hold yourself to the same standard.   So I am asking you where do you find the term Antichrist in the Tanach, which contains verses about the little horn - but never calls the person the Antichrist.   

 

You stated I have no scripture to support that the Antichrist must be a Jew and anointed the King of Israel -  which is totally untrue because I have been giving you scriptures supporting that claim.    It is just that there is not a direct statement in the scriptures that the Antichrist must be a Jew, nor anointed the King of Israel.    

So you are quick to disregard the scriptures I gave you, plus the expectations of the Jews themselves regarding the messiah -to me, because you are not familiar with their views.     I can read your posts and can tell easily which areas you are weak in.    I constructively have given you sources to correct your weakness's.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

So I have asked you the question of where in the Tanach - which the Jews go by, as well as Christians, are you finding the term Antichrist?    And where in the scritpures do you find it directly stated that the Antichrist has to be gentile?

If you go back through the thread and compare our interactions - I give scriptures to support my position and you do not.  

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I just recently referred to Isaiah 14:19-20, regarding the abominable branch (as compared to Jesus being the righteous branch of Jesse - I assumed that you were aware of the prophecy of Jesus being the righteous branch of Jesse, David's father, hence descended from David as well.  Isaiah 11:1-5, Jeremiah 33:15-16, Jeremiah 23:5 ), who destroys his land and his people.

The point being made, Isaiah 14:19-20 is speaking about the slain man of sin - having to be a Jew, by referring to him as an abominable branch.     It assumes the reader will know from other prophesies, that the righteous branch is the messiah, which we know to be Jesus - the Christ.

I asked you who does the "his land and his people" refer to?     You did not answer.   

Isaiah 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

  So please answer the question of who the person is, being likened to as an abominable branch?     And who is being referred to by "thy land" and "slain thy people" of the person?

These are some of the verses of scripture that the person has to be a Jew, and his people are the Jews, and his land is Israel.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by douggg

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Dane said:

To your first point, the passage in John 5 does NOT say that a "Jew" will come in his own name. It simply says "one" will come in his own name. In fact, a genuine Jew would never come in his own name, but in the name of Yahweh. Jesus (a Jew) came in His Father's name. If you need to resort to eisegesis to support a pretext, chances are your theology is off.

Read the verse again in context and you will see a JEWISH person there. He is talking to Jewish People, about His messiahship. It is just common sense. No Jew will receive a Non Jew as there Messiah, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.... The Messiah must come from the line of David, If they are not from the line of David, they will be rejected. He will come from the tribe of Judah... If he is not from the tribe of Judah he will be rejected. Does DJT meet any of these qualifications? NO, NOPE, NEGATIVE.

1 hour ago, Jonathan Dane said:

I believe your second point started out (and I quote), "He (Trump) is not universally applauded, in fact, he is universally hated."

I simply asked you, "Where in Scripture does it say the Antichrist is "universally applauded?" (Or loved, liked, admired). Having a little trouble? Let me help you out. It doesn't.

My Second Point is made by the fact that the beast will have seven heads, and this is now the second time you have failed to explain how DJT controls seven heads. The beasts universal likeability will be tied into his globalist leadership, seven heads and 10 horns, Yet DJT is standing up to the globalists beast, Pretty much alone, and he is taking a beating for doing so by the media whom you hold as a beacon of truth, Even now in this comment you have pointed to their lies and false accusations as "Proof" for your theory. In the following quote...

 

1 hour ago, Jonathan Dane said:

defending a man who seems unable to let a truthful word proceed from his mouth. (in all due respect)

These are the words of someone who believes the propaganda of the media and their non stop assault on this man since being elected. He did not even get the customary 100 days. EVERY single night Mueller, Mueller, Mueller....Russia, Russia, Russia and in the words of one of their own, It is nothing more than a big "nothing Burger". The things the media have said have been proven to be lies, over and over again. The fake photos of children locked up at the border in cages were taken during the BHO administration, The Phony dossier used to get FISA surveillance done on him during the election which is exactly what led to the resignation of Nixon, done by the previous administration, the Phony attacks on his family, Sending Moles in to plant Russia evidence.... And you believe the lies.  

Yes, he is a flawed man, We all are. He was a successful business man in NYC and had to deal with mob bosses, Kickbacks to politicians, and Chrony capitalism to get his success. He is no angel. if you have ever Worked in one of these big cities you know what this is all about  and you overlook that. 

1 hour ago, Jonathan Dane said:

So far, you're not doing too well with the points I AM addressing. (your points).

Until you answer my second point I would not gloat too much, Amazing how you have ignored this for a second time now? Stop trying to make two points out of my second point so that you can ignore the evidence presented by it.... , Just sayin' 

Edited August 7, 2019 by dhchristian

[Sister]

11 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

I believe that Trump is the Antichrist, the Beast, the Little Horn. He has yet to step into that rule.

Yes thank you.  I know you believe that.  But have you considered the 3 kings that will be uprooted, and that maybe Trump is one of them?  If Trump is looking out for Israel, he is only going to be in the way of their plans.

[Jonathan Dane]

On 8/6/2019 at 6:29 PM, dhchristian said:

Read the verse again in context and you will see a JEWISH person there. He is talking to Jewish People, about His messiahship. It is just common sense. No Jew will receive a Non Jew as there Messiah, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.... The Messiah must come from the line of David, If they are not from the line of David, they will be rejected. He will come from the tribe of Judah... If he is not from the tribe of Judah he will be rejected. Does DJT meet any of these qualifications? NO, NOPE, NEGATIVE.

My Second Point is made by the fact that the beast will have seven heads, and this is now the second time you have failed to explain how DJT controls seven heads. The beasts universal likeability will be tied into his globalist leadership, seven heads and 10 horns, Yet DJT is standing up to the globalists beast, Pretty much alone, and he is taking a beating for doing so by the media whom you hold as a beacon of truth, Even now in this comment you have pointed to their lies and false accusations as "Proof" for your theory. In the following quote...

 

These are the words of someone who believes the propaganda of the media and their non stop assault on this man since being elected. He did not even get the customary 100 days. EVERY single night Mueller, Mueller, Mueller....Russia, Russia, Russia and in the words of one of their own, It is nothing more than a big "nothing Burger". The things the media have said have been proven to be lies, over and over again. The fake photos of children locked up at the border in cages were taken during the BHO administration, The Phony dossier used to get FISA surveillance done on him during the election which is exactly what led to the resignation of Nixon, done by the previous administration, the Phony attacks on his family, Sending Moles in to plant Russia evidence.... And you believe the lies.  

Yes, he is a flawed man, We all are. He was a successful business man in NYC and had to deal with mob bosses, Kickbacks to politicians, and Chrony capitalism to get his success. He is no angel. if you have ever Worked in one of these big cities you know what this is all about  and you overlook that. 

Until you answer my second point I would not gloat too much, Amazing how you have ignored this for a second time now? Stop trying to make two points out of my second point so that you can ignore the evidence presented by it.... , Just sayin' 

Let the record show that you provided me not one single text that says the Antichrist will be Jewish. To use your word: NADA.
Instead, you made an argument from silence and an appeal to reason, as you summed it up yourself: "It is just common sense. No Jew will receive a Non Jew as there Messiah" If my memory suits me, I believe your very first reply was (and I quote): 
"Appeal to intellect  (1st warning sign)"

You're appeal is not to Scripture, but to "common sense." But is it common sense that Israel would "never" turn to a Gentile for protection?

"Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help
and rely on horses,
who trust in chariots because they are many
and in horsemen because they are very strong,
but do not look to the Holy One of Israel
or consult the LORD!" (Isaiah 31:1)

FACT: From the very time they were still in Egyptian captivity, to the Exodus, in the Promise Land, to the Babylonian captivity, to the return from exile, to the time of Christ and beyond, time and time again, Israel has replaced their true Savior with Gentile "stand-ins." They did so with Egypt, and they did so with virtually every nation that was in close proximity with them. They turned their true Savior, Jesus Christ over to their Gentile king to stand trial. Common sense, you say? Yes...common sense....that Israel would not hesitate to once again depend on a Gentile.

The Apostle Paul makes it clear that one is not a genuine Jew by circumcision of the flesh but of the heart. Which begs the question: Regarding the Israel that turns to the Antichrist as their Savior, WHICH ISRAEL IS IT? The Israel of the Spirit? Or of the flesh? Would spiritual Israel, the true Israel of God (Gal 6) turn to any Messiah that wasn't a Jew? Absolutely no. But neither would they embrace a covenant with a man that Isaiah calls, "a covenant of death." So which Israel turns to the Antichrist? Most certainly, it is the Israel that is only "israel" externally. Would THEY turn to a Gentile for salvation? IN A NEW YORK MINUTE. (New York residence address provided per request.)

I've already said that no genuine Jew would come in their own name. Speaking of which, of ALL the things Christ could say, doesn't it appear a bit random that He centered on the fact that the Antichrist would come "in his own name." I've always thought that a bit random. That is, until TRUMP. If you want me to unpack that further, I've already posted it (John 5:46) on this forum under the title: "Battle of NAMES -- Christ versus Antichrist" 

I'll stop here for now. (Got some life to live.) I'll try to hit more of your points later. I'd rather focus on 1 or 2 things. The devil's in the details -- no more true than in the day in which we live. 

Briefly, the 7 (10) horns, heads, etc. hasn't yet happened. It will, and soon. 

Finally, may I note just one more thing that smells of hypocrisy? You said it over and over again that we should not bring politics into this. In point of fact, I have not. Even the quote of mine regarding Trump's lies was not acquired from media pundits but from simple observation of watching the man's mouth. I don't need the media for that. Conversely, after going on and on about how we should keep politics out, you provided quite a large paragraph above (See paragraph that starts: "These are the ones...") You can deny this all you want. But it sorta reads like a spade. Where did I provide such a political list in my comments? I did not.


 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Jonathan Dane

[Jonathan Dane]

4 hours ago, douggg said:

I asked you who does the "his land and his people" refer to?     You did not answer.   

Isaiah 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

  So please answer the question of who the person is, being likened to as an abominable branch?     And who is being referred to by "thy land" and "slain thy people" of the person?

 

 

 

I will answer more at a later date (promise) I'm not blowing you off, just busy. Who is the abominable branch?

"When the LORD has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon" (Isaiah 14:3)

"I will rise up against them,” declares the LORD of hosts, “and will cut off from Babylon name and remnant, descendants and posterity,” declares the LORD." (Isaiah 14:22)

I'm going with the King of Babylon. I love it when Scripture takes away the guesswork. It's amazing what happens when you study the passage in its context instead of using it as a pretext. (I would admit  that the King of Babylon is a classic type of Antichrist -- a Gentile one.)

But what about the people and the land? (Hey, doesn't the land always refer to Israel? Not if the context says otherwise.) Here's the verse that precedes that: "those pierced by the sword, who go down to the stones of the pit, like a dead body trampled underfoot" 

These are the King of Babylon's people - IN HADES.

But what do I know? I'm just one of the unstudied and unlearned guys.