The seven heads and the harlot atop them

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

What I have come to conclude is that when Mornings and evenings are used prophetically . . . 

Outside of Daniel 8, can you post some prophetic scriptures that use the expression "mornings evenings" to note a duration of days so I can look at them?  I can't think of any off the top of my head.

• From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.  How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!  Daniel 12:11-12
• But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.  Revelation 11:11
• Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.  Revelation 12:6

These prophetic passages reference a number of days and none of them are interpreted as "mornings evenings" in any of the dozens of versions I checked.

[douggg]

3 hours ago, dhchristian said:

The dragon, the beast and the false prophet are men possessed by a devil

Revelation 12:9 indicates that the dragon is Satan.    Satan is not a man.

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Outside of Daniel 8, can you post some prophetic scriptures that use the expression "mornings evenings" to note a duration of days so I can look at them?  I can't think of any off the top of my head.

• From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.  How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!  Daniel 12:11-12
• But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.  Revelation 11:11
• Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.  Revelation 12:6

These prophetic passages reference a number of days and none of them are interpreted as "mornings evenings" in any of the dozens of versions I checked.

I think in Daniel 8 it means 2300 days, of mornings and evenings of the daily sacrifice would have been done if they had not been be stopped the little horn person at some point during that 2300 days.

The 2300 days of the daily sacrifices beginning again; then stopped by the little horn by reason of transgression, making the temple desolate, until Jesus returns, and the thing making the temple desolate is removed.

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What it boils down to is that sometime in the end times the daily morning and evening daily sacrifices will be started up again.

And corresponding to Daniel 9:27, in the middle part of the week those sacrifices are stopped as....

In 2Thessalonians2:4, the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.

Edited August 1, 2019 by douggg

[dhchristian]

10 hours ago, douggg said:

Revelation 12:9 indicates that the dragon is Satan.    Satan is not a man.

Judas was a man possessed by the Devil, and the Type of the antichrist, the Sone of Perdition...

[douggg]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

Judas was a man possessed by the Devil, and the Type of the antichrist, the Sone of Perdition...

Judas was at type of the son of perdition in 2Thessalonians2.

But what has that got to with Revelation 12:9 indicates that the dragon is Satan.    You said that the dragon dies (along with the beast and false prophet),     What is your biblical statement that the dragon - Satan - dies?

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by douggg

[JoeCanada]

18 hours ago, dhchristian said:

What I have come to conclude is that when Mornings and evenings are used prophetically it refers to days specifically, But when Yowm Is used it refers to Both days or time periods. And if You look at the definition, of Yowm  it allows for this. This then being one of my arguments against things like gap theory, and long day creationism, Because the use of mornings and evening does not allow for Years in this passage.

Notice also in Daniel 8:11-13, the Word "daily" is used of the sacrifice. This word means continual. When you go back to scripture the daily sacrifice is a continual one, Meaning it is day and night, morning and evening.

 

39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even: 40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering. 41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD. 42 This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee. (Exo. 29:40-42)

Thus Morning and evening Oblations are considered one day as a unit.. DAILY, Continual

The word for continual is tamiyd (H8548) 

This word is used 3x in reference to the 2300 hundred days, verses 11, 12, and 13. Is this not enough emphasis that the mornings and evenings are a unit that equals a single day? It is like us saying AM and PM, which both make up a single day on the clock. 

 

 

Hi dh,

I would have to agree with "evenings and mornings" constituting a single day, and not 1/2 day.

Genesis 1 sets a precedent (Law of Primacy)for how to interpret the evenings and mornings....."and there was evening and there was morning, one day"...............

A Hebrew reader could not possibly understand the period of time 2300 evening-mornings of 2300 half days or 1150 whole days, because evening and morning at the creation constituted not the half but the whole day.

Daniel 8: 14 reads “2,300 evenings and mornings” and not “2,300 evenings and 2,300 mornings.” The fact that the number appears only once establishes morning and evening as a unit.

When the Hebrews wish to express separately day and night, . . . the number of both is expressed. They say, e.g. forty days and forty nights (Gen. 7:4, 12; Ex. 24:18; 1 Kings 19:8), and three days and three nights (Jonah 2:1; Matt. 12:40)

[JoeCanada]

On 7/31/2019 at 9:59 AM, dhchristian said:

Who is Andy Woods? All of chapter 8 is about Medo Persia, the 2 horned Ram, and Greece, the One Horned Goat under Alexander, which turns into the four horns of his Generals. YES, this Abomination has Implications for the end times Abomination as TYPE and some of the descriptions might refer to the end time beast, But the 2300 days is not part of that. This was fulfilled to the Day by Antiochus Epiphanes. Daniel 9:27, and Rev. 13:4  are clear that the end time beast rules for 42 months, which is equivalent to 1260 days, or as few as 1240.xx days because of the a lunar month is not exactly 30 days. To Imply that the beast of rev. 13 rules for 2300 days is making God's word contradict itself. I For one dare not do this.

 

Hi dh,

"This was fulfilled to the Day by Antiochus Epiphanes"......(referencing the 2300 days)

What do you have to prove this statement? If it was fulfilled "to the day" then this has to be exact...."to the day"

We do agree that the 2300 evenings and mornings constitute one day.

The little horn relates to the 2,300 evenings and mornings (8:11–14),  yielding 2,300 days.

Antiochus’ interruption of the Jewish sacrifices did not last 2,300 days, but approximately 1,080 days (1 Macc 1:54; 4:52–54).

[dhchristian]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

Judas was at type of the son of perdition in 2Thessalonians2.

But what has that got to with Revelation 12:9 indicates that the dragon is Satan.    You said that the dragon dies (along with the beast and false prophet),     What is your biblical statement that the dragon - Satan - dies?

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The Dragon is a person controlled by Satan....

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (Rev 16:13)

Since Satan has been cast down to earth, he has to occupy a Body, as he is no longer Prince of the Power of the Air.

 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (Eph 2:2)

There is a progression to Satan's falling throughout scripture, as exalts himself and falls. From the third heaven, (Garden of Eden) to the second, (Isa. 14) to the first heaven where he is now,(Crucifixion)  to being cast down to earth (Rev 12), then to the bottomless pit (Rev 19), and then finally in the lake of fire. (Rev. 20).

 

[dhchristian]

44 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Antiochus’ interruption of the Jewish sacrifices did not last 2,300 days, but approximately 1,080 days (1 Macc 1:54; 4:52–54).

Time of Antiochus persecution of Jews was from Sep. 6 171 bc-dec. 25th, 165 bc.

Sourced from John MacArthur Study Bible. 

Though I have my issues with John MacArthur, he is very reliable on his dating. 

[douggg]

47 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

The Dragon is a person controlled by Satan.... 

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. (Rev 16:13)

You are misinterpreting Revelation 16:13.   Revelation 16:13 does not mean the killing of the beast, false prophet or dragon.

The beast and the false prophet are cast alive - not dead - into the lake of of fire.     While Satan is cast into the bottomless pit.

There is no person (a man controlled by Satan) called the dragon the in that group.      There is the image of the beast, the statue, that speaks, incarnated by Satan.    That image, the outer facade will be burnt up, brought to ashes, exposing Satan, the day that Jesus returns.

The dragon is just another word for Satan.       It is the false prophet, the beast, and the dragon (Satan).    beast, false prophet - to the lake of fire.  Satan - to the bottomless pit, after he is exposed to the world, Ezekiel 28:17-19.

Satan, the dragon, is speaking in Revelation 16:13 because he will be possessing the AoD statue image of beast, which speaks (Revelation 13:15).

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Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

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Judas was called the son of perdition because Satan entered him for the brief time to carry out the act of betrayal against Jesus.

The Antichrist, 2Thessalionians2:3-4, likewise will be entered into by Satan, to carry of the act of betraying Israel, the Jews, by going into the temple, sitting claiming to be God.       That's what the referral to the son of perdition is about in 2Thessalonians2:3-4.

When the person is thus revealed as the man of sin, it ends his time in the role of being the Antichrist, King of Israel, because the Jews will reject him as continuing as their king.

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by douggg