Being a gun owner

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, other one said:

if people in the past had taken this approach we'd all be speaking Arabic and putting our butts up to Allah...  My ancestors would not do that so I would not be here.....

You wud be here if God decide it.

Edited August 2, 2019 by R. Hartono

[Guest PinkBelt]

On 8/1/2019 at 7:49 AM, other one said:

I've been involved in three muggings in my life....   the first one I and the six friends with me were not armed and lost all of our cash and several credit cards....     the second two I was armed and once the muggers understood I was armed they fled....  

I'm not sure what the point is, that you would have shot someone to death over money?

[The_Patriot21]

5 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

I'm so sad, what is being glorified with our shot gun ?   

i dont think people even intend to glorify God in their life with their intention to use weaponry to protect things God gave them.

Peter try to fight the people with sword when they came to arrest Jesus at Gethsemani garden but Lord banned him because that way he didnt glorify the Lord and he didnt seek God's will. Jesus didnt want to use weapon to defend His life, if it was God's will Jesus would give His life. So He gave everything to God.

But we, we dont, we take a shot gun to settle everything our way. to protect everything God gave to us, we wont let it loose at all cost. We imagine bad things that not yet happen to us and how good is the shot gun will be, instead of God.

Better seek God as our protection, live or die we will always be with the Lord Jesus.  Is there any Amen ? No ? 

 

I think you miss the point...I don't think anyone here is willing to kill someone over material possessions. If someone wants my TV they can have it.

Protecting life on the other hand is a different story. Being a Christian is all about the protection of life. The entire Bible, in one way or another is about life, which is why God allowed for self defense. 

Funny you bring up shotguns... because for an amateur shooter they're actually highly recommended for home defense, especially if you don't want to actually have to shoot someone, particularly pump shotguns. Often just the sound of you racking a round will scare off an intruder. And if you do have to use it, it's a lot easier to hit your target, while not as likely to go through walls and cause collateral damage. You can also load it with non-lethal rounds such as Rock salt or bean bags if you wish to simply incapacitate your enemy (though if I were to go that route I'd only keep the first couple rounds non lethal and have lethal rounds behind them just in case the first two don't stop your opponent)

[The_Patriot21]

4 hours ago, PinkBelt said:

I'm not sure what the point is, that you would have shot someone to death over money?

I think his point was he stopped a mugging without having to kill anyone

[Neighbor]

3 hours ago, The_Patriot2019 said:

Often just the sound of you racking a round will scare off an intruder.

Nope. It will get you killed by them.  Shotgun set for defense should be fully loaded one in the chamber safety off. Never ever give away  your location, never! Bad guys have no fear, they have weapons, and they do not care about gun safety. They are drugged up, tend not to react to non lethal application of force. Giving them a break, by making noise of any kind is giving away  your life.

[GandalfTheWise]

5 hours ago, PinkBelt said:

Out of context is when you excise one sentence from a paragraph, stripping it of it's meaning and the information being communicated.

I would go further than this with regard to scripture.   I consider out of context with regard to scripture as failing to consider all of the parallel passages of an event as well not considering ALL other passages which lay down a background of context and ALL other passages which relate to the topic in any way.   The world is full of Christians who quote a few passages (even if they are extended), neglect many others, draw a conclusion, and then accuse other Christians who disagree with not believing the Bible or following God.  Many threads on this site amount to this process and then run several pages long of arguing over it.   Doing an incomplete exposition of a topic, drawing a conclusion, and then implying (or explicitly stating) disparaging things about any Christian who disagrees is what I was pointing out.   My previous post is what I consider a starting point for laying the ground work to figure out what the Bible teaches on the topic before I'd even start to draw a conclusion that I would judge all other Christians by.

This is different from God's Spirit using scripture to speak directly to our individual hearts about what path He wants us to walk.  For this, complete study and context is not necessary.  It is God's guidance as to how we individually should live.  At times, this might be the same as all other Christians, but at times this will be unique to us for our particular life, testimony, and witness.  I think most Christians would agree it is fine for Christians to eat pork.  However, I know of a few Jewish and Muslim converts who refuse to eat pork so that it will not be a stumbling block when testifying.  In these situations, we cannot take what we are convinced God is teaching us individually to do through scripture and extend it to all other Christians.  I know Christians who are convinced God has called them to be pacifists.  If God draws them to Matt 26:52 and other such verses and calls them to be pacifists, I fully support that.  I know Christians who are convinced God called them to be in law enforcement (and reluctantly use force and violence as needed to protect others).  I fully support them in that (and indeed am happy to have brothers and sisters in Christ in such roles).

As far as I can tell, all Christians would agree that no Christian should be using weapons or force to murder or commit crimes or oppress or harm people.  However, Christians have differing views on what the Bible teaches about what level of self-defense is permitted in what circumstances as well as how much obligation Christians might have to protect the powerless from those who would harm them.  I've yet to hear a compelling biblical case why all Christians in all circumstances should always allow someone else to be beaten up or killed by a bully or criminal.

[Neighbor]

Well this is all fun I suppose but:

There is no better personal defense than a phalanx of angels, seen by the enemy. May it be that  we pray one for the other asking that many angels will surround each of us during our sojourning days on this planet in these corruptible bodies of flesh.

[The_Patriot21]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Nope. It will get you killed by them.  Shotgun set for defense should be fully loaded one in the chamber safety off. Never ever give away  your location, never! Bad guys have no fear, they have weapons, and they do not care about gun safety. They are drugged up, tend not to react to non lethal application of force. Giving them a break, by making noise of any kind is giving away  your life.

I'd agree with you a handgun...but there are numerous, numerous occasions where this has worked... enough so that I'd say it's a good idea. Now in a military situation against trained attackers your right...bad idea. Couple teenagers in your home trying to steal a TV? Yeah they're not going to hang around to see if your willing to shoot that thing or not...even most rapists/kidnappers are likely to run. Like most predators, they're after easy prey...not something likely to shoot back.

That and even if you need to, well I don't know why your so slow, but the second I rack the round I'm ready to fire...so even if that person decides he's going to attack me he's going to get a round of buckshot center mass before he can do anything....

Realistically if you don't have time to rack a round and fire in your own home...maybe you should consider more training.

The only real advantage to having a round chambered already is if they already know your position...in which case I'm not reaching for the 12 gauge anyway but rather a pistol that I can aim faster and get follow up shots in faster.

[other one]

8 hours ago, PinkBelt said:

I'm not sure what the point is, that you would have shot someone to death over money?

just because one carried a weapon does not mean they are going to kill with everyone with it....    I'm 72 years old and have carried a weapon in either my vehicle or my side my whole life and I have not shot anyone as of this moment.....    but I have stopped several bad things happening to decent people including myself...   I know a half dozen police officers who have never had to draw their weapon and shoot at anyone....    people make way too much to do about carrying a weapon.....  it is just a tool that equalizes people.  you don't have to be bigger or stronger or faster to protect yourself

[Neighbor]

Ever pull the trigger on a shotgun indoors? Wow!

I walked into a fancy indoor range where the big boys and girls were popping away rounds with their new  Obama era panic time purchases of semi auto handguns at one of those gun buying rushes (I bought three that day) Silly me.  

On the floor of the pistol range line were empty cartridges and  more flying as they shot away, like they were being charged by an entire army. Amid the loud  but muffled  by ear protection penetrating noise, a rattling ding, I took the end station, as directed by the proprietor. They did not allow shotguns on the rifle range only on the handgun range.

I let off a round from the Remington 870 I was testing out. The whole line full of hand gun shooters left the floor in one startled shaking leap and returned to the ground stunned by the noise even with their ear protection in place.  All shooting stopped as they were disoriented. They had all left the floor in one big startled leap! I was stunned by the noise. No one there heard much after that. Shooting stopped for a bit. I did shoot some more rounds, but did not make many friends in the process, for even though now aware it was coming the noise was disorienting overwhelming in that room.

 

The idea of having a Quicks Draw Mc Graw event in one's home, keeping one's composure, and getting the bad guy using a shotgun after being roused from a sound sleep seems pretty remote to me for the first blast deafens and disorients even the shooter. The idea of awakening from sleep and being a first class shooter one up on the bad guy out reacting him or her and remaining calm and accurate even after a first round is hastely fired to who knows where in the fear and excitement- don't think so. Seems a fantasy to me, but good luck to anyone that thinks that they are  a sharpshooting Rambo even in their sleep state.

Buy an alarm system, get a dog, have a cell phone,  use good door locks, and window guards, and  sleep the sleep of the innocent protected by angels.