7 YEAR TRIBULATION?

[ENOCH2010]

16 hours ago, Uriah said:

It truly appears to me that if you take then one by one, ONLY Jesus COULD fulfill them.

That's the way I see it also.

[ENOCH2010]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Hey guys,

I don't how Israel was supposed to fulfill those six things listed by Gabriel. Maybe someone will show the scriptures that show this. As I see it:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city-  Plainly states a definite and  finite time period is allotted for what follows 

(1) to finish the transgression, and- ISRAEL CAN DO THIS? Heb 9:15- And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. More can be said, but WOW! How could ANYONE but Jesus do this?
(2) to make an end of sins, and-And where does it say ISRAEL does this?  Heb 10:4-11- "sins...remember no more" That's the N.T.-JESUS!
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and-Animal sacrifices won't work, Heb 2: "our merciful high priest made reconciliation for the sins of the people" and it was ONCE for ALL
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and-What kind of righteousness can be provided by Israel? It was done away with!! Rom 3:21-26- Even the righteousness of GOD..through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus -NOT ISRAEL
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and - John 6:27- ..the Son of Man...which God the father hath sealed"
(6) to anoint the most Holy. -Acts 4:27, 10 :38- God anointed Jesus..calls Him the "Holy One" How could THIS be Israel?

 

These things are ALL fulfilled in our savior-Jesus! He did what Israel could NEVER do! They MUST be accomplished on the CROSS and it MUST happen within a 70 week time period. The Messiah came AFTER the 69th week!  He did these things in the middle of the 70th week.

 

That's why I can only see 3.5 years spoken about in Rev. not 7 years.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Hey guys,

I don't how Israel was supposed to fulfill those six things listed by Gabriel. Maybe someone will show the scriptures that show this. As I see it:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city-  Plainly states a definite and  finite time period is allotted for what follows 

(1) to finish the transgression, and- ISRAEL CAN DO THIS? Heb 9:15- And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. More can be said, but WOW! How could ANYONE but Jesus do this?

Shalom, Uriah.

You just have to change the reading from ACTIVE to PASSIVE! Yeshua` does the six things FOR Israel and FOR Jerusalem! The words "upon," twice in verse Daniel 9:24, are the Hebrew word "`al":

5921 `al (al). Properly, the same as `al used as a preposition (in the singular or plural often with prefix, or as conjunction with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications (as follow)
-- above, according to(-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-)on, over, than, through(-out), to, touching, X with. 

These words "UPON thy people and UPON thy holy city" make "thy people" and "thy holy city" RECIPIENTS of the action. Thus, the thought is "Yeshua` is to finish THEIR transgression."

Quote

(2) to make an end of sins, and-And where does it say ISRAEL does this?  Heb 10:4-11- "sins...remember no more" That's the N.T.-JESUS!

Again, it's "Yeshua` is to make an end of THEIR sins."

Quote

(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and-Animal sacrifices won't work, Heb 2: "our merciful high priest made reconciliation for the sins of the people" and it was ONCE for ALL

It also is "Yeshua` makes reconciliation for THEIR iniquity."

Quote

(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and-What kind of righteousness can be provided by Israel? It was done away with!! Rom 3:21-26- Even the righteousness of GOD..through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus -NOT ISRAEL

Of course, "Yeshua` will bring in everlasting righteousness FOR Daniel's people and FOR Daniel's holy city!"

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(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and - John 6:27- ..the Son of Man...which God the father hath sealed"

 (John 6:27? That's a bit of a stretch, y'know.) When Yeshua` the Messiah returns, He shall fulfill the vision and the prophecy and no more visions or prophecies will be needed. A better passage would be...

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (KJV)

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 

Quote

(6) to anoint the most Holy. -Acts 4:27, 10 :38- God anointed Jesus..calls Him the "Holy One" How could THIS be Israel?

It will be the Messiah Yeshua` who anoints the Holy of Holies in the New Temple, the Temple described in Ezekiel, that He builds at the beginning of the Millennium, and He shall build it in Daniel's holy city, Yerushalayim or Jerusalem.

Quote

These things are ALL fulfilled in our savior-Jesus! He did what Israel could NEVER do! They MUST be accomplished on the CROSS and it MUST happen within a 70 week time period. The Messiah came AFTER the 69th week!  He did these things in the middle of the 70th week.

Absolutely true! However, that portion will occur in the SECOND HALF of the 70th week still in our future.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Retrobyter

[Uriah]

5 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Jer 31:33 -  This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. i will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.  I will be their God and they will be my people.  34b - For I will forgive their wickedness and remember their sins no more.

Zech  8: 6 - This is what the Lord Almighty says, It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me...  9:16 - The Lord their God will save them on that day.

Zeph 3:13 - The remnant of Israel will do no wrong, they will speak no lies, nor will deceit be found in their mouths.  20b - I will restore your fortunes before your very eyes.

70 Sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city TO.  It takes effort for someone to do these things.  Christ forgave everything on that day.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Thanks bro,

This verifies everything I said above.

[Uriah]

20 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

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Jer 31:33 -  This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. i will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.  I will be their God and they will be my people.  34b - For I will forgive their wickedness and remember their sins no more.

Yep. The NEW COVENANT! This is what I already posted about Jesus declaring ot at the last supper!

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Zech  8: 6 - This is what the Lord Almighty says, It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me...  9:16 - The Lord their God will save them on that day.

Previous verse is about children playing in the streets OF THE REBUILT CITY. Rebuilt DURING the 70 WEEKS!

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Zeph 3:13 - The remnant of Israel will do no wrong, they will speak no lies, nor will deceit be found in their mouths.  20b - I will restore your fortunes before your very eyes.

Same chapter refers to God saying "I have destroyed nations, their strongholds are demolished. I have left their streets deserted, with no one passing through. Their cities are laid waste; they are deserted and empty."

This is in the Millennium, NOT during the 70 weeks.

70 Sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city TO.  It takes effort for someone to do these things.  Christ forgave everything on that day.

Those (six) things listed as needing to take place in the 70 weeks by Jesus are for ALL people!

 

[Uriah]

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

 

Quote"thy people" and "thy holy city" RECIPIENTS of the action. Thus, the thought is "Yeshua` is to finish THEIR transgression."

 

Again, it's "Yeshua` is to make an end of THEIR sins."

It also is "Yeshua` makes reconciliation for THEIR iniquity."

Of course, "Yeshua` will bring in everlasting righteousness FOR Daniel's people and FOR Daniel's holy city!"

There is only ONE way to take away their transgressions, sins and iniquity-BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS! It is for Jews AND Gentiles.

 

Quote"thy people" and "thy holy city" RECIPIENTS of the action. Thus, the thought is "Yeshua` is to finish THEIR transgression."

Their sins can ONLY be finished ONE WAY-BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS!

 

 (John 6:27? That's a bit of a stretch, y'know.) When Yeshua` the Messiah returns, He shall fulfill the vision and the prophecy and no more visions or prophecies will be needed. A better passage would be...

Quote

 

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (KJV)

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 

This is a verse whose context is about "spiritual gifts". Not the 70 weeks, not relevant here.

 

It will be the Messiah Yeshua` who anoints the Holy of Holies in the New Temple, the Temple described in Ezekiel, that He builds at the beginning of the Millennium, and He shall build it in Daniel's holy city, Yerushalayim or Jerusalem.

I don't think you will provide a bible verse for that, AND it will CERTAINLY be outside of the 70 weeks!

 

 

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, Uriah said:

Those (six) things listed as needing to take place in the 70 weeks by Jesus are for ALL people!

Why then does Scripture say for Daniels people and Daniels holy city TO.  Christ is not the focus/subject here.  He is but a marker at the end of the 69th Week.  The 70 Sevens are all about when Israel will believe in the Messiah.  It is a time table for their Salvation.  God chosen people finally come home.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Why then does Scripture say for Daniels people and Daniels holy city TO.  Christ is not the focus/subject here.  He is but a marker at the end of the 69th Week.  The 70 Sevens are all about when Israel will believe in the Messiah.  It is a time table for their Salvation.  God chosen people finally come home.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Hi Marv

Dan 9:24 -Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Once again, everything in the above verse had to be fulfilled in those 70 weeks, period. they can only be so by Jesus on the cross!

 Dan 9:25 -Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

This verse simply tells us the city will be rebuilt during that time. 

 Dan 9:26 -And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Jesus is "cut off" AFTER the 69 weeks, yet ALL of the things in v.24 MUST be done within 70 weeks. Anything else makes it a failed prophecy.

 Dan 9:27 -And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In (that) one week He confirms the covenant.

So the 70 weeks is allotted for the city to be rebuilt and remained in by the people ostensibly for the circumstances to be in place for the role of the Messiah.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Uriah.

  Quote"thy people" and "thy holy city" RECIPIENTS of the action. Thus, the thought is "Yeshua` is to finish THEIR transgression."

 

Again, it's "Yeshua` is to make an end of THEIR sins."

It also is "Yeshua` makes reconciliation for THEIR iniquity."

Of course, "Yeshua` will bring in everlasting righteousness FOR Daniel's people and FOR Daniel's holy city!"

There is only ONE way to take away their transgressions, sins and iniquity-BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS! It is for Jews AND Gentiles.

Why are you kicking against the ox-goad? This sounds like nay-saying to me. Why are you fighting against the obvious? OF COURSE, it's for Jews and Gentiles ... NOW! It hasn't always been, however! I've got news for you (which you should already know): Your "Jesus" (whose name is actually Yeshua`) was and still IS a JEW! It takes the blood of a Jew to atone for Gentiles even today! THINK ABOUT IT! "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Who came first in God's Kingdom after all, the Jews (children of Israel) or the Gentiles? What did King David say?

Psalm 145:1-21 (KJV)

1 {David's Psalm of praise.} 

א

I will extol thee, my God, O king; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever.

ב

2 Every day will I bless thee; and I will praise thy name for ever and ever.

ג

3 Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.

ד

4 One generation shall praise thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts.

ה

5 I will speak of the glorious honour of thy majesty, and of thy wondrous works.

ו

6 And men shall speak of the might of thy terrible acts: and I will declare thy greatness.

ז

7 They shall abundantly utter the memory of thy great goodness, and shall sing of thy righteousness.

ח

8 The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.

ט

9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

י

10 All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee.

כ

11 They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk of thy power;

ל

12 To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom.

מ

13 Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.

ס

14 The LORD upholdeth all that fall, and raiseth up all those that be bowed down.

ע

15 The eyes of all wait upon thee; and thou givest them their meat in due season.

פ

16 Thou openest thine hand, and satisfiest the desire of every living thing.

צ

17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

ק

18 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

ר

19 He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.

ש

20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

ת

21 My mouth shall speak the praise of the LORD: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.

Psalm 5:1-3 (KJV)

1 {To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David.} Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.

2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayerunto thee, and will look up.

Psalm 68:1-35 (KJV)

1 {To the chief Musician, A Psalm or Song of David.} Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.

2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

6 God setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land.

7 O God, when thou wentest forth before thy people, when thou didst march through the wilderness; Selah:

8 The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of God, the God of Israel.

9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful rain, whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.

10 Thy congregation hath dwelt therein: thou, O God, hast prepared of thy goodness for the poor.

11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

12 Kings of armies did flee apace: and she that tarried at home divided the spoil.

13 Though ye have lien among the pots, yet shall ye be as the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold.

14 When the Almighty scattered kings in it, it was white as snow in Salmon.

15 The hill of God is as the hill of Bashan; an high hill as the hill of Bashan.

16 Why leap ye, ye high hills? this is the hill which God desireth to dwell in; yea, the LORD will dwell in it for ever.

17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

19 Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah.

20 He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.

21 But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

22 The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea:

23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same.

24 They have seen thy goings, O God; even the goings of my God, my King, in the sanctuary.

25 The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; among them werethe damsels playing with timbrels.

26 Bless ye God in the congregations, even the Lord, from the fountain of Israel.

27 There is little Benjamin with their ruler, the princes of Judah and their council, the princes of Zebulun, and the princes of Naphtali.

28 Thy God hath commanded thy strength: strengthen, O God, that which thou hast wrought for us.

29 Because of thy temple at Jerusalem shall kings bring presents unto thee.

30 Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people thatdelight in war.

31 Princes shall come out of Egypt; Ethiopia shall soon stretch out her hands unto God.

32 Sing unto God, ye kingdoms of the earth; O sing praises unto the Lord; Selah:

33 To him that rideth upon the heavens of heavens, which were of old; lo, he doth send out his voice, and that a mighty voice.

34 Ascribe ye strength unto God: his excellency is over Israel, and his strength is in the clouds.

35 O God, thou art terrible out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God.

Psalm 10:16-18 (KJV)

16 The LORD is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.

17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:

18 To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.

Read Romans 11 again ... CAREFULLY!

 

  Quote"thy people" and "thy holy city" RECIPIENTS of the action. Thus, the thought is "Yeshua` is to finish THEIR transgression."

Their sins can ONLY be finished ONE WAY-BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS!

 

 

  Quote

 

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (KJV)

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 

This is a verse whose context is about "spiritual gifts". Not the 70 weeks, not relevant here.

 

It will be the Messiah Yeshua` who anoints the Holy of Holies in the New Temple, the Temple described in Ezekiel, that He builds at the beginning of the Millennium, and He shall build it in Daniel's holy city, Yerushalayim or Jerusalem.

I don't think you will provide a bible verse for that, AND it will CERTAINLY be outside of the 70 weeks!

 No time tonight, but I can and I shall. For now, just read Psalm 118:22-27.

[Diaste]

On 8/20/2019 at 3:26 AM, Uriah said:

It truly appears to me that if you take then one by one, ONLY Jesus COULD fulfill them.

I agree and I do believe that was the whole point. It was tasked to the people of God, a nearly impossible set of trials to complete unless they turned to the power of the Lord Himself for help. They could have done that but did not. God knew this as the plan from the beginning was for Jesus to come and save all mankind.