Signs in the heavens, the earth, and the sea?

[Still Alive]

8 minutes ago, lftc said:

Saw this post at random chance, and thought I would reply just for fun.

I am not taking a position in this debate about signs of the times. 

But as to Climate Change - it is interesting to see what the earth does without any assistance from man.  Do some research on "volcano and famine 1257 ad".  One volcano in indonesia, complete global famine, untold numbers die, snow in london in the summer.

Not that I am taking a position on climate change.  I have my opinions, but this is not my mission in the time I have left.

Heh. I'm with you.

 

FWIW, you may find this "fun" even though it's not your mission: 

https://www.youtube.com/user/TonyHeller1/videos

The guy nails it, video after video. 

[simplejeff]

13 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The Bible does not say much about climate change. God is in control and this world is not my home so I don't have a lot to say about it. 

What the Bible does say is what is important,  not what the news, or scientists, nor what society nor mankind says.

Thus,   see somewhere in the Bible what the Bible says about the temperature increasing until men curse God (instead of crying/calling for help)....

[Gentle-Warrior]

On 8/27/2019 at 7:44 AM, luigi said:

In the Olivets, the Lord describes signs in the heavens, the earth, and the seas occurring during the end of the current age (Luke 21:25).
Men's hearts will fail them due to their perceiving that the environment is only going to get worse (Luke 21:26).
To me these signs appear like what is currently transpiring in the environment due to global warming, which is picking up speed, and according to the majority consensus will become significantly more severe.
The alternative perspective among many religious organizations is that the signs will be supernatural in nature.
So here is the question: If the current distress of nations with perplexity is due to increase as the environment continues to deteriorate as the scientific consensus claims; how then will we know the difference between any supposed supernatural signs in the heavens, the earth, and the sea, from those the scientific consensus already recognizes will occur due to mankind's destruction of the environment?

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

If we take things into their proper context, Jesus was telling His disciples what was going to take place in their own generation, not 2,000 plus years later. Mat. 23:36, 24:34 and Mark 13:30 assures us that Jesus' words had to do with the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of Israel as a covenant nation. The term "this generation" is very clear, meaning all the events Jesus predicted would take place 40 years later. 

So, Israel as nation was cutting themselves off from God's eternal blessings because to reject their own Messiah, was in fact a full rejection of Gods' purpose for them. So, God relied on the remnant of Israel to proclaim the gospel and to begin to bring the Gentiles into God's eternal promises in Jesus Christ.

NASB Jn 15:20 “Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also."

Now as for the allusions of the signs, we must first consider that Jesus was simply giving the Jews a metaphor, not making a literal promise. The "signs" of the sun, the moon an the stars mean that no light will shine upon them anymore because they had rejected the true Light of the world: Jesus Christ (Jn 8:12). In other words, their life a nation would end completely or completely collapse. The waves roaring means war, upheaval, uncertainty and finally, death. 

These things took place in the Jewish wars with the Romans in AD 66-7O

[luigi]

15 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

If we take things into their proper context, Jesus was telling His disciples what was going to take place in their own generation, not 2,000 plus years later. Mat. 23:36, 24:34 and Mark 13:30 assures us that Jesus' words had to do with the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of Israel as a covenant nation. The term "this generation" is very clear, meaning all the events Jesus predicted would take place 40 years later. 

So, Israel as nation was cutting themselves off from God's eternal blessings because to reject their own Messiah, was in fact a full rejection of Gods' purpose for them. So, God relied on the remnant of Israel to proclaim the gospel and to begin to bring the Gentiles into God's eternal promises in Jesus Christ.

NASB Jn 15:20 “Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also."

Now as for the allusions of the signs, we must first consider that Jesus was simply giving the Jews a metaphor, not making a literal promise. The "signs" of the sun, the moon an the stars mean that no light will shine upon them anymore because they had rejected the true Light of the world: Jesus Christ (Jn 8:12). In other words, their life a nation would end completely or completely collapse. The waves roaring means war, upheaval, uncertainty and finally, death. 

These things took place in the Jewish wars with the Romans in AD 66-7O

Within a decade after crucifying the Lord, the faithless murderers in Jerusalem began exiling all the faithful out of Jerusalem (Acts 8:1). These faithless murderers who killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, the Holy Spirit through Paul declared as being unpleasing to God, and contrary to all men (1 Thessalonians 2:15). As such, the Lord's wrath came upon these murderers to the uttermost (1 Thessalonians 2:16), which is represented in the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. Does the Lord then in His Olivets in Mark 13; Luke 21; and Matthew 24; refer to these faithless murderers?  

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. 

1 Thessalonians 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

[Gentle-Warrior]

On 9/5/2019 at 5:19 AM, luigi said:

Within a decade after crucifying the Lord, the faithless murderers in Jerusalem began exiling all the faithful out of Jerusalem (Acts 8:1). These faithless murderers who killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, the Holy Spirit through Paul declared as being unpleasing to God, and contrary to all men (1 Thessalonians 2:15). As such, the Lord's wrath came upon these murderers to the uttermost (1 Thessalonians 2:16), which is represented in the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. Does the Lord then in His Olivets in Mark 13; Luke 21; and Matthew 24; refer to these faithless murderers?  

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. 

1 Thessalonians 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Yes, the Lord was referring to them in His parables, in the cursing of the fig tree and in His regular confrontation with the Jews. 

[luigi]

15 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

Yes, the Lord was referring to them in His parables, in the cursing of the fig tree and in His regular confrontation with the Jews. 

The Lord in Mark 13:37 tell us all to watch for the signs mentioned in His Olivets. If these events have already occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of the faithless in Jerusalem, we are then, since 70 AD no longer compelled to keep watch for all the signs mentioned. I, however, recognize that the signs described in the Olivets have not transpired, and so I will keep watch.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. 

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

If these events have already occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of the faithless in Jerusalem, we are then, since 70 AD no longer compelled to keep watch for all the signs mentioned.

Let's attempt to not be simplistic for the benefit of all who read our words. It is quite apparent from Josephus' writings that the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem, to the Israelis, was so cataclysmic in their minds that much of Daniel had been completed.

BUT. If you read the Tanach carefully and the epistles etc., you will see that there are 'shadows' and 'types' and sometimes fact-allusions that speak to more than one occasion, person or event. Just because one is fulfilled, does not mean they all are.

So yes, much in Daniel has been fulfilled, but some of the items in Matt 24 have not been. Yet... So keeping a weather eye open is always a good policy. Do not look for a 'rapture' or the many flavored modern eschatolgy versions of these later times. They do not hold water and are fanciful. Rather look at God's Divine Council and its many references in all the scriptures. See what the Lord's end-game is all about and you will get a much clearer picture.

Yes, there will be another huge battle. Yes Yeshua/Jesus will come again. No, there will not be a seven-year anything. No there will not be a separate 'rapture'. Yes, "all Israel will be saved"; this includes non Israelis and Israeli believers. "The seed of Abraham".

[luigi]

51 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Let's attempt to not be simplistic for the benefit of all who read our words. It is quite apparent from Josephus' writings that the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem, to the Israelis, was so cataclysmic in their minds that much of Daniel had been completed.

BUT. If you read the Tanach carefully and the epistles etc., you will see that there are 'shadows' and 'types' and sometimes fact-allusions that speak to more than one occasion, person or event. Just because one is fulfilled, does not mean they all are.

So yes, much in Daniel has been fulfilled, but some of the items in Matt 24 have not been. Yet... So keeping a weather eye open is always a good policy. Do not look for a 'rapture' or the many flavored modern eschatolgy versions of these later times. They do not hold water and are fanciful. Rather look at God's Divine Council and its many references in all the scriptures. See what the Lord's end-game is all about and you will get a much clearer picture.

Yes, there will be another huge battle. Yes Yeshua/Jesus will come again. No, there will not be a seven-year anything. No there will not be a separate 'rapture'. Yes, "all Israel will be saved"; this includes non Israelis and Israeli believers. "The seed of Abraham".

The Olivets are all about one time, just prior to, during, and immediately after the Abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel makes his appearance (Matthew 24:15). Immediately after the tribulation of those days of tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, the stars shall fall from heaven 29 . Then shall the sign of the sign of the Son of man in heaven appear, that will have all the tribes of earth mourn, when they see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven 30. The generation who witness the events in the Olivets shall not perish till all these things are fulfilled (Matthew 24:34). So, unless there are some two thousand year old people hanging around; these events did not happen in 70 AD.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

[Gentle-Warrior]

On 9/8/2019 at 7:01 AM, luigi said:

The Lord in Mark 13:37 tell us all to watch for the signs mentioned in His Olivets. If these events have already occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of the faithless in Jerusalem, we are then, since 70 AD no longer compelled to keep watch for all the signs mentioned. I, however, recognize that the signs described in the Olivets have not transpired, and so I will keep watch.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. 

If your opinion says that the signs of the described in the Olivet's discourse have not transpired yet, is it because of what? Some of the things that Jesus said were metaphors of allusions to a greater truth. Jewish culture used language and exaggerated truths that needed to be heeded.

So, if you would understand that the Lord was speaking to a specific people with something specific in mind, you would probably be more open to God's word with the intention that Jesus gave it. 

1) Who was Jesus speaking to? His disciples of course.

2)Did Jesus give His disciples any clues as to when these things would take place? Yes, He did. He told them all the things He had prophesied would occur in their own generation (Mark 13:30)

So, why do we think that the bible was written to us only and meant nothing at all to the people that lived in the days of Jesus? 

3) Israel's greatest crime which surpasses every other crime in history was to kill their own Messiah through lies and deceptions. What shall God do, promise them the land and continue to cater to them when all along they didn't give a fig about Christ's willingness to take them to the final step of God's eternal plan which was their full redemption? 

Finally, all of God's promises to Israel rested on whether they would believe in the Son of God or reject God's eternal purposes for them. Only the remnant did it which was enough for God. The rest were condemned while Israel as a nation ceased to exist forever. 

4) God has His people today which is made out of both Jews and Gentiles. The common denominator is Jesus Christ. 

Ephesians 4:4–6 (NASB95)

^{4 "}There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

⁵ one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

⁶ one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

Pretty simple, isn't it? 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[luigi]

29 minutes ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

If your opinion says that the signs of the described in the Olivet's discourse have not transpired yet, is it because of what? Some of the things that Jesus said were metaphors of allusions to a greater truth. Jewish culture used language and exaggerated truths that needed to be heeded.

So, if you would understand that the Lord was speaking to a specific people with something specific in mind, you would probably be more open to God's word with the intention that Jesus gave it. 

1) Who was Jesus speaking to? His disciples of course.

2)Did Jesus give His disciples any clues as to when these things would take place? Yes, He did. He told them all the things He had prophesied would occur in their own generation (Mark 13:30)

So, why do we think that the bible was written to us only and meant nothing at all to the people that lived in the days of Jesus? 

3) Israel's greatest crime which surpasses every other crime in history was to kill their own Messiah through lies and deceptions. What shall God do, promise them the land and continue to cater to them when all along they didn't give a fig about Christ's willingness to take them to the final step of God's eternal plan which was their full redemption? 

Finally, all of God's promises to Israel rested on whether they would believe in the Son of God or reject God's eternal purposes for them. Only the remnant did it which was enough for God. The rest were condemned while Israel as a nation ceased to exist forever. 

4) God has His people today which is made out of both Jews and Gentiles. The common denominator is Jesus Christ. 

Ephesians 4:4–6 (NASB95)

^{4 "}There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

⁵ one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

⁶ one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

Pretty simple, isn't it? 

The generation who shall see all these events shall not pass, until all these things in the Olivets are fulfilled (Matthew 24:34). You can't say some happened two thousand years ago, and some is still to happen in the future. To claim so denies the Word. We have yet to been gathered from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matthew 24:31).

 Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.