Law or Grace or compromise somewhere in between?

[JohnD]

Too many believers are stymied from the effects of legalism and superstition.

The biggest contributor to this is their authority is the traditions of men (Mark 7:7-13).

While they claim the freedom in Christ (John 8:32, John 8:36), they are enslaved by the Law

not realizing  we are no longer under the Law (Galatians 3:24-25).

Hebrews 9:16-17 places the dividing line between New and Old Covenants on the cross.

Most believers have no clue about this nor the ramifications of it or the impact on our walk with

Jesus.

Jesus lived and died under the Old Covenant (Old Testament). It ended by that death.

The New Covenant (New Testament)  began that same moment and not before.

So what?

Well, for starters, it frees us from trying to fulfill the Law which Jesus held the Jew's feet to the fire of

throughout his ministry (particularly in the Sermon on the Mount: which was Jesus' divine commentary on

the way the leaders mishandled the Law, putting the teeth back into the Law that they had removed).

You can't fulfill the Law. Only Jesus could.

But by believing the Old Testament / New Testament divider is the end of Malachi 4 and the beginning of Matthew 1

people create the false doctrine that salvation is by faith alone and then works are added in...

[Willa]

You are right.  Only I would add that it was not till the Holy Spirit had been poured out that we received the power to live the Christians life and bear fruit, being connected then to Jesus the life giving Vine.

 Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Joh 15:4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.  Joh 15:5  I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

It is also true that we are not under bondage to tithe.  However, we are to support our local pastors and the ministries of God as well as the poor in our churches and the poor churches.   

 1Ti 5:17  ESV  Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.  1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.” 

Gal 2:9  and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. Gal 2:10  Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

These seem to be the only restrictions placed on the Gentile church:

 Act 21:25  But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality."

YET

1Co 6:9  Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 1Co 6:10  nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.  1Co 6:11  And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

We look at blood and things sacrificed to idols as a given, yet the love of money is called idolatry, and there is growing trend to mix other religions with Christianity, many of them idolatrous.    Namely are mind emptying meditation with mantras, yoga, and those martial arts that include self hypnosis and eastern religion.  Many Buddhas are acknowledged to be demons.  Others are just ethical religions, but all are departing from Jesus Christ who said: "I AM the way, the truth and the life;  no man can come to the Father but by Me."   We are not allowed to combine Christ with other religions.  It is not Jesus plus works or Jesus plus anything else.  It is through faith alone, through the Scriptures alone,  by the grace provided by Christ on the cross alone.

 

[saved34]

Amen. Absolutely no compromise. 

Gal 4:29  At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

Gal 4:30  But what does Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."

Gal 4:31  Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Our lives are governed by the Spirit, not the old letter which condemned us and placed a debt on our heads. We are complete in Christ, we have Christ himself and no longer need shadows and types. Ceremonial, dietary, day observances are all fulfilled in Christ.

 

Col 2:16  Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

 

Col 2:9  For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

 

Col 2:10  and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

So what do we do with the descendants of the “ Slave Woman”.Who are they? Moslems? Judaizers?Those That are “ fallen from Grace and severed from the Cross”because they add to the Gospel Of Paul? Tares In the church that look identical to Believers but lack the Holy Spirit?Whoever they are,Paul’s analogy does not say to  be gentle and try to convince them that they are wrong.No mention of begging, pleading or even praying for them.We are told to throw them out . The legalists will always attack those of us that are free.They will attack those that are “ free in Christ” always striving to put the free , who understand the Grace of God and rest in it back under the  bondage of the Law.Law cancels Grace. Like oil and water you can’t mix the two .Do we try to reform the Spiritual Descendants Of  Sarah and Ishmael ( symbolic of working your way to Salvation by obeying Laws - “ trying “ to be saved) or do the-True descendants of Abraham ( Those “Trusting” in the finished work of the Cross) throw them out? “ cast out the Bond-Woman”. Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Grace is what covers the Believer when he sins......Grace puts those sins on the Cross and leaves  them there...God “ remembers your sins NO MORE, if you simply believe His Gospel. Grace is  not fair.....God grants His Grace to those that do not merit it- that’s Love. Grace is a manifestation of God’s Love for us.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is what empowers us to do battle with our old Adamic Spirit ....it was given to us by Grace when we became Believers....

Edited September 6, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[Adstar]

When i comes to being saved there is no compromise.. Salvation is by Believing Jesus and trusting in His grace that was secured by His death on the cross..

The Law is true and good and is a guide that reveals to us our desperate need for the grace of Jesus so that we can be saved..

Those who believe God believe His WORD and will agree with the Law that it is good and should seek to resist transgressing the Law and to do good works.. BUT!!!!  No one is saved by doing the Law because the Holy Bible clearly states NO ONE does the Law without failure..  So the Law brings judgement and death upon those who seek to be justified by the Law in Gods sight.. Only those who believe Jesus and trust 100% in the Atonement / grace He secured on the cross will be justly forgiven all their sins and be Redeemed by Jesus on the day of the Resurrection of the Saints..

Anyone who tries to mix in their Law or works doing into the Mix of salvation has disbelieved in the effectiveness of the Atonement that Jesus secured on the cross and therefore they will not be covered by the blood of the LAMB of God who takes away the sins of the World..

[JohnD]

On 9/5/2019 at 2:08 PM, Willa said:

You are right.  Only I would add that it was not till the Holy Spirit had been poured out that we received the power to live the Christians life and bear fruit, being connected then to Jesus the life giving Vine.

 Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Joh 15:4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.  Joh 15:5  I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

It is also true that we are not under bondage to tithe.  However, we are to support our local pastors and the ministries of God as well as the poor in our churches and the poor churches.   

 1Ti 5:17  ESV  Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.  1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.” 

Gal 2:9  and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. Gal 2:10  Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

These seem to be the only restrictions placed on the Gentile church:

 Act 21:25  But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality."

YET

1Co 6:9  Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 1Co 6:10  nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.  1Co 6:11  And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

We look at blood and things sacrificed to idols as a given, yet the love of money is called idolatry, and there is growing trend to mix other religions with Christianity, many of them idolatrous.    Namely are mind emptying meditation with mantras, yoga, and those martial arts that include self hypnosis and eastern religion.  Many Buddhas are acknowledged to be demons.  Others are just ethical religions, but all are departing from Jesus Christ who said: "I AM the way, the truth and the life;  no man can come to the Father but by Me."   We are not allowed to combine Christ with other religions.  It is not Jesus plus works or Jesus plus anything else.  It is through faith alone, through the Scriptures alone,  by the grace provided by Christ on the cross alone.

 

And that fruit is... winning souls to Christ by fulfilling our calling / ministry / spiritual gifts God gave us to participate in his Holy Spirit ministry of evangelism:

The details about the way we as individuals go about this are important... but the goal is the evangelism of the lost. That is where the emphasis on this side of the cross 

is placed. 

Be blessed.

[JohnD]

I really should have used the word "balance" rather than "compromise"

in the OP.

Compromise is perceived as usually being negative.

It's not.

It's only negative when one compromises on things they ought never to

compromise on.

1 Samuel 8 (AV)
1 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.
2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba.
3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
22 And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.

People who wittingly or not try to put God in a box take the passage about him never changing (meaning his nature) misinterpret this to mean he never changes his mind.

Obviously he does.

God condescended (compromised) to give the people a king like the nations around them. 

[OneLight]

The law was given to prove that humans can never fulfill the law, therefore we are not righteous enough in our human nature for God.  James 2:10 tells us "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all."

Grace tells us that though we don't deserve His forgiveness, He bestows His love onto us and forgives our sins, making it possible to be reconciled back to God.

How do the two meet then?  Through the Holy Spirit.  We, by ourselves, can never obey God as we should.  It is only because of the Holy Spirit that we can do good works, not of ourselves, but Him through us.  As He changes our inner man, we become more conformed to Christ Jesus, making it possible to be obedient without even trying as it is now in our new nature to obey His commandments.  Nothing we can do can accomplish this, but only through the Holy Spirit can this be accomplished.

[OneLight]

45 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

I'm sickened by this thread. It teaches we cannot keep the law, that it's impossible, but the scriptures says Jesus made a way that we could through Him. Faith without works is dead. So many don't even try to stop sinning because they believe, through threads like this, that they cannot stop sinning so why bother. But Jesus commands it. What does God's teaching say - KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

 

John 14:15
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

John 14:21
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.

John 15:10
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

 

In fact, Jesus elevated the commandments to where instead of physical murder to heart murder, instead of physically sleeping with another man's wife, to lusting in our hearts equals adultery. Christians must be above any appearance of evil doing. If you do not put away to old man (sin in us) then you are not saved to begin with. Look at John 14:21, Jesus will manifest Himself to those that are obedient. If you've not seen Jesus in your life, then you don't love Him. This is HIS words, not mine. Repent!

Interesting take on this thread as I did not see it the same way.  I see this thread as saying what you are saying.