GOD'S LAST WORD TO THE WORLD

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

The Israel of the OT was in covenant with God. Modern and secular Israel has zero connection with God and is set against God's eternal purposes through Christ just like the rest of the nations. After old Israel they killed their own Messiah, they went on to persecute Jews in Christ, God judged them, burned the city down and closed the door to the old covenant forever (1Thes. 2:14-16, Heb 8:8-10)

What we have today is a political nation that was born by the help of the UN, but has nothing to do with the eternal purposes of God because God's people always been those who have His Spirit, not those don't. However, the doors of salvation are still open to them as Jews come to the Lord be delivered from sin and death. Thirty thousands Jews live in Israel that are now part of His church. 

One eternal principle that God has established in His word is that without faith is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6). 

As for the prophets of old, they pointed to the new covenant where the temple would no longer have central stage in their lives. They looked forward for the complete removal of sin and for life eternal. The promise that God gave them was Jesus Messiah (Christ). He gave them a PERSON that would change their lives forever, not promises that would keep them in their sin. 

Luke 24:25-27, 44-45, Jn 5:39-40, are some of the scriptures that pointed to Jesus. Luke 2:32 tells us that Jesus was the glory of Israel while Paul said in Acts 28:20 that Jesus was the hope of Israel. However, if you take Jesus out of the picture, all you have left is a shell without the goods. 

Colossians 1:27 (NASB95)

"To whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."

So, According to you, Amos 9:14-15 is just a defunct promise of God, and Israel that reformed in 1948 is just a conspiracy to get us to think prophecy is being fulfilled by the U.N?

[Gentle-Warrior]

8 hours ago, Alive said:

But there are clear distinctions all through the record regarding 'the Land' and what it represents on earth and how important the fulfillment of prophesy is to God regarding the 'house of David', etc.

I don't read any scriptures in the NT any promise about t

6 hours ago, dhchristian said:

 

This is replacement theology in a nutshell. This is EXACTLY what they believe. all you are doing is putting lipstick on a pig. 

There is no need for the land because Christ has come, Christ has died, Christ has risen. Christ has ascended to the throne in heaven, and finally, He has given the Spirit of God to anyone who believes in Him.  God's throne is in heaven and will always be a spiritual kingdom. The promise of God was the Spirit (Lk 24:49, Acts 2:33, 39, 7:17, 13:32, 26:6, Rom 4:13, 16, etc., etc.)

Primarily the Messiah was for the Jews. We came after the Jews because God's salvation was cosmic. The purpose of Israel was to give birth to Messiah, embrace Him and then go into all the world to preach the gospel. Since national Israel rejected Him, God judged them and did away with old covenant Israel which included the law, the land, the priesthood, the sacrifices, etc. Christ fulfilled them all in Himself because the end plan in sight was to become a new creation which began the moment people believed in the Lord Jesus (2Cor. 5:17). The preparation for eternity began when Christ fulfilled the work of redemption for all time. We are the result of God gathering His people for eternity. 

Jesus is our promise for new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells, so if we think a little, what need is to continue to drag the same old thing when God fulfilled His promise to them in Christ?  It is not God's fault that the nation said a final no to Him. No second chances because God does not show partiality with anyone (Acts 10:34). 

Jesus Christ is King David reigning in the heavens. This kingdom is spiritual while anyone has access to it through faith in Christ (Eph. 1:20-23, Rev. 3:7).

Edited September 18, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[dhchristian]

5 minutes ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

There is no need for the land because Christ has come, Christ has died, Christ has risen. Christ has ascended to the throne in heaven, and finally, He has given the Spirit of God to anyone who believes in Him.  God's throne is in heaven and will always be a spiritual kingdom. The promise of God was the Spirit (Lk 24:49, Acts 2:33, 39, 7:17, 13:32, 26:6, Rom 4:13, 16, etc., etc.)

Primarily the Messiah was for the Jews. We came after the Jews because God's salvation was cosmic. The purpose of Israel was to give birth to Messiah, embrace Him and then go into all the world to preach the gospel. Since national Israel rejected Him, God judged them and did away with old covenant Israel which included the law, the land, the priesthood, the sacrifices, etc. Christ fulfilled them all in Himself because the end plan in sight was to become a new creation which began the moment people believed in the Lord Jesus (2Cor. 5:17). The preparation for eternity began when Christ fulfilled the work of redemption for all time. We are the result of God gathering His people for eternity. 

Jesus is our promise for new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells, so if we think a little, what need is to continue to drag the same old thing when God fulfilled His promise to them in Christ?  It is not God's fault that the nation said a final no to Him. No second chances because God does not show partiality with anyone (Acts 10:34). 

Jesus Christ is King David reigning in the heavens. This kingdom is spiritual while anyone has access to it through faith in Christ (Eph. 1:20-23, Rev. 3:7).

You still have not answered my questions. Here it is again for you.

So, According to you, Amos 9:14-15 is just a defunct promise of God, and Israel that reformed in 1948 is just a conspiracy to get us to think prophecy is being fulfilled by the U.N?

So is Amos 9:14-15 speaking of the church then? Or Israel the nation? 

[Alive]

40 minutes ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

I don't read any scriptures in the NT any promise about t

There is no need for the land because Christ has come, Christ has died, Christ has risen. Christ has ascended to the throne in heaven, and finally, He has given the Spirit of God to anyone who believes in Him.  God's throne is in heaven and will always be a spiritual kingdom. The promise of God was the Spirit (Lk 24:49, Acts 2:33, 39, 7:17, 13:32, 26:6, Rom 4:13, 16, etc., etc.)

Primarily the Messiah was for the Jews. We came after the Jews because God's salvation was cosmic. The purpose of Israel was to give birth to Messiah, embrace Him and then go into all the world to preach the gospel. Since national Israel rejected Him, God judged them and did away with old covenant Israel which included the law, the land, the priesthood, the sacrifices, etc. Christ fulfilled them all in Himself because the end plan in sight was to become a new creation which began the moment people believed in the Lord Jesus (2Cor. 5:17). The preparation for eternity began when Christ fulfilled the work of redemption for all time. We are the result of God gathering His people for eternity. 

Jesus is our promise for new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells, so if we think a little, what need is to continue to drag the same old thing when God fulfilled His promise to them in Christ?  It is not God's fault that the nation said a final no to Him. No second chances because God does not show partiality with anyone (Acts 10:34). 

Jesus Christ is King David reigning in the heavens. This kingdom is spiritual while anyone has access to it through faith in Christ (Eph. 1:20-23, Rev. 3:7).

I will respond to this in the morning.

[other one]

I get to be the 100'th poster.....

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

You still have not answered my questions. Here it is again for you.

So, According to you, Amos 9:14-15 is just a defunct promise of God, and Israel that reformed in 1948 is just a conspiracy to get us to think prophecy is being fulfilled by the U.N?

So is Amos 9:14-15 speaking of the church then? Or Israel the nation? 

Amos as well as any other book that belongs to the old covenant, cannot be taken at face value without full support of the new covenant in Christ. So, to ignore the NT for a scripture of the OT is to ignore the unity of the scriptures that come together in Christ. The NT explains and fulfills the old while the old serves as a foundation for the new; however, we cannot take isolated scriptures from the old testament and make a a doctrine out of it without having full support from the new. 

Based on what I have said, allow me to explain how that scripture fits perfectly with the NT. 

Amos 9:13–14 (NASB95)

¹³“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “When the plowman will overtake the reaper And the treader of grapes him who sows seed; When the mountains will drip sweet wine And all the hills will be dissolved.

¹⁴“Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit."

This passage clearly points to the redemption of Israel that Jesus accomplished at the cross. According to Acts 28:20, Jesus was the hope of Israel and the promise of the Father to them. 

If you cannot see Christ in all things, perhaps you need to read Luke 24:25-27, 44-45 and John 5:39-40 because Jesus was what Israel was looking for while all the promises of the scriptures of the OT pointed directly or indirectly to Him.  

One example, 

 

Luke 1:67–72 (NASB95)

^{67 "}And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:

⁶⁸ “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,

⁶⁹ And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of David His servant—

⁷⁰ As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old—

⁷¹ Salvation from our enemies, and from the hand of all who hate us;

⁷² To show mercy toward our fathers, and to remember His holy covenant."

It's all about Jesus! 

[Gentle-Warrior]

4 hours ago, dhchristian said:

So, According to you, Amos 9:14-15 is just a defunct promise of God, and Israel that reformed in 1948 is just a conspiracy to get us to think prophecy is being fulfilled by the U.N?

Are you comparing God's covenant Israel of 2,000 years ago that had a temple, a law, a priesthood, prophetic oracles, blood sacrifices, etc.,with a promised a Messiah with a modern, POLITICAL and SECULAR nation that wants nothing to with God and whom God has not said a word for 71 years? 

Don't you know that God's last word to the world is the cross of Jesus Christ? (Heb. 1:2).

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[Adstar]

12 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

Of course! I agree with you 100%, but that does not take away the fact that the scriptures must be understood according to its own genre, not according to our whims. The Bible is full of metaphors, similes, poetry, allusions, etc., besides the fact that the culture, language and mindset of those days were different from our own self centered western mentality where we assume we are the center of all things. 

Rev. 20 does not say that Jesus will return to earth to rule for 1,000 literal years. Read it again and again until you get it. 

 

Revelation 20: KJV

4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Literal 1000 years reigning with Christ..

Later on in the same chapter it establishes that the Saints are on earth. At the end of the 1000 years.

We read::

(Revelation 20: KJV

7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, {8} And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. {9} And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

So at the end of the 1000 years the Saints will be On earth and will be living near the Beloved City Jerusalem.. That will be where Jesus shall be ruling the world from.. This final satanic rebellion will be destroyed and then the second resurrection and final judgement will happen..  I cannot be any more clearer.. That is why this Book of the Bible is called the Book of Revelation because it reveals things that correct misguided doctrines that many religious people have adopted..

[Adstar]

11 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

By the early church, I meant the first century writers that gave us the NT. Find it in the NT where it says that God who already reigns in the spirit over all His creation (God is a spirit, Jn 4:24 and Jesus is God) has a need to reign physically on earth? Isn't He omnipresent and limitless in power?

This is where Human thinking is undermining you... Where does the doctrine that Jesus shall rule on earth state that Jesus NEEDS to rule on earth??? 

NOWHERE..

Of course Jesus does not NEED to rule on earth for 1000 Years.. It has NEVER been about Gods NEEDs. It's about Gods WILL.. 

So God is omnipresent and limitless in power and He rules all existence no matter where He is.. Location is irrelevant.. But He can WILL to do things what ever way He likes and He has his own reasons..

[Gentle-Warrior]

15 minutes ago, Adstar said:

This is where Human thinking is undermining you... Where does the doctrine that Jesus shall rule on earth state that Jesus NEEDS to rule on earth??? 

NOWHERE..

Of course Jesus does not NEED to rule on earth for 1000 Years.. It has NEVER been about Gods NEEDs. It's about Gods WILL.. 

So God is omnipresent and limitless in power and He rules all existence no matter where He is.. Location is irrelevant.. But He can WILL to do things what ever way He likes and He has his own reasons..

Where does it say that God the Son who rules in heaven over all creation (Mat. 28:18, Eph. 1:20-22) will step down from heaven to rule over what He already rules?  Jesus is omnipresent and all powerful because He is God. 

1 Kings 8:27 (NASB95)

²⁷ “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You, how much less this house which I have built!"

Will God the Son rule on earth when He, Himself said that His kingdom is not of this world? (Jn 18:36). Why then are you trying to bring God to your human level instead of seating in heavenly places as His words states we are? (Eph. 2:6). 

Did you already forget who Jesus really is? Where is your scripture anyway where it says that Jesus will step down from heaven to rule on earth?

Read Rev. 20 a few times and tell me where it says that? 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior