Can we determine the TIMING of the Rapture from Paul?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

That can be said for a lot of what you try to teach on the forum 

It is OK with me if you believe that. Yes, it is true that some of what I teach here God told me. I am certainly not ashamed of that. But for those things that He taught me, I most certainly back up with the scriptures, line upon line.  But I can guess that you did not believe.

[The Light]

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

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You are still missing it, if I tell you a rooster dips snuff, look under his wings and you;ll find the can pardner !!

LOL. Yeah, I was laughing.

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So you say the Remnant are the Jews like I used to, but it cant be Jews, let me post the verses and that might be a better visual.

Rev. 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

It should be clear enough to just read what it says. The remnant of the seed of the woman has to be of the 12 tribes. Can't be anything else. No way it can be Gentiles.

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So the earth helps the Woman/Israel like in the Exodus, the Fire/Wall of Water helped Israel. So she is thus PROTECTED Right ? Satan/AC can't get at her, so who does he get at ? It CAN'T be the other Jews, here is why !! Read the verse, look sat the RED HIGHLIGHT, it can't be the rest of the Jews, they don't Repent, thus they can't have the testimony of Jesus nor do the keep the commandments of God. Look, do you not think ANY Gentiles will be saved after the Rapture ? Of course they will, thus the are the Remnant that are NOT PROTECTED, because they can't get to Petra, most Jews will be living in Isrsael by that time, and only 1/3 repent, the 2/3 who don't do not keep Gods commandments, nor do the have Jesus' testimony. The Gentile Church {with some Jews} are indeed in Heaven, the 1/3 of the Jews {Woman} are PROTECTED in Petra, Satan can't get at them, the 2/3 who don't repent are NOT of Jesus, they still reject him, they they CAN'T be this Remnant who do keep Gods commandments and who do have Jesus' testimony, catch my drift ? The Martyrs are the Gentiles who repent during the 70th week. They are not protected, they are like the 5 foolish virgins who tarried. The Jews have to be protected, to fulfill God's promise to Abraham.

Again, there is the Church that is raptured pretrib. The seals are then opened and the 70th week of Daniel begins. At the end of 7 years there will be a prewrath rapture that will be of the 12 tribes. Only the nation of Israel goes through the wrath of God. Those that flee as instructed will go through the wrath of God in a place of protection. The church will be raptured on Pentecost the early summer grain harvest feast. The 12 tribes will be raptured pre wrath on the Feast of Trumpets, Rosh Hashanah

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And no days will be shortened, we know this because the 70th week is 7 years. God's original plan shortened the beasts reign from what it would "NATURALLY" have been, if God had not sent Jesus back, to 1260 days MAX. He dies on day 1260. He comes to power in the Middle of the week so the 70th week must needs be exactly 7 years, Jesus is speaking of Gods design shortening the Beasts time on earth where he can't kill all men on earth, God doesn't have to redesign things later. 

 

I think the days are shortened by delaying the abomination of desolation being set up. We are still talking 7 years.

 

[ENOCH2010]

29 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It is OK with me if you believe that. Yes, it is true that some of what I teach here God told me. I am certainly not ashamed of that. But for those things that He taught me, I most certainly back up with the scriptures, line upon line.  But I can guess that you did not believe.

I stand by the moto, if the Bible is silent about a topic, we should be also. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, ENOCH2010 said:

I stand by the moto, if the Bible is silent about a topic, we should be also. 

Think for a moment if you had told that to Paul - and he believed you: we would not have much of the New Testament! Paul got his gospel, the very gospel  by which we will be judged, through revealed knowledge. In fact, Jesus said that was the ROCK upon which He would build His church.

Therefore, if God reveals something to someone, it is usually to be SHARED.

1 Corinthians 14:30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

 

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Do you think this verse is saying that He, John, will be one of the two witnesses?

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Ah! I have read after people that are SURE they know what the 7 thunders are. Sorry, but I don't take them serious. John was told to seal them up and not write them.

Yet the LORD also says do not seal up the words of this book...And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. (Rev. 22:10)

So, this led me to ask is this sealing of the seven thunders mean what they said is concealed in the book of Revelation?

 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. (10:4)

So is it sealed up and not written in the book? Or is it sealed up by not being written in chapter 10 there, But is hiding in plain sight throughout the Book?  I Do not take this lightly, but what He showed me is that the thunders mean the presence of the LORD, Just as it did in the following: And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. (Exodus 19:16) AND The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed. (1 Sam. 2:10)

I Honestly do not know if I can argue this point but I know it is true. This was an epiphany for me in that it opens the understanding to this framework. For me, someone who is used to design and architecture, the difference is like drawing a line on a blueprint, which is 2 dimensions, or being able to view that blueprint and see the structure in three dimensions. Where as most read revelation and see a linear timeline, I see a three dimensional timeline that has depth and overlap, like layers when you are using AutoCAD.  

 

 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

It should be clear enough to just read what it says. The remnant of the seed of the woman has to be of the 12 tribes. Can't be anything else. No way it can be Gentiles.

Again, there is the Church that is raptured pretrib. The seals are then opened and the 70th week of Daniel begins. At the end of 7 years there will be a prewrath rapture that will be of the 12 tribes. Only the nation of Israel goes through the wrath of God. Those that flee as instructed will go through the wrath of God in a place of protection. The church will be raptured on Pentecost the early summer grain harvest feast. The 12 tribes will be raptured pre wrath on the Feast of Trumpets, Rosh Hashanah

I think the days are shortened by delaying the abomination of desolation being set up. We are still talking 7 years.

Please explain your reasoning. The Jews at this point in time probably still don't believe in Jesus. Therefore it MUST be Gentiles. We are of the "seed" of the woman for JEsus came from Israel and the church sprang up from the Seed.

Agreed, the church is raptured pretrib: just before the 6th seal,  and the "trib" beginning with the 7th seal. The first five seals have been opened since Jesus ascended and got the book into His own hands.  We are at the 5th seal with martyrs STILL being added to that number.  And they will continue to be added to the number of church age martyrs until the rapture ENDS the church age.

At the end of 7 years there will be a prewrath rapture that will be of the 12 tribes.   I sure hope you can show this in scripture. I have never seen such a  verse.

NO, the number of days where there will be great tribulation (GT) will be shortened when God pours out the vials of His wrath. The effects of the vials will render the armies of the Beast totally incapable of carrying out any kind of hunting down of saints and killing them. They days will certainly continue on to the 1260th day that will end the week, but they will no longer be days of GT.  They will just be days of fear for most people on the earth.

[iamlamad]

Just now, dhchristian said:

Yes.

 

Yet the LORD also says do not seal up the words of this book...And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. (Rev. 22:10)

So, this led me to ask is this sealing of the seven thunders mean what they said is concealed in the book of Revelation?

 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. (10:4)

So is it sealed up and not written in the book? Or is it sealed up by not being written in chapter 10 there, But is hiding in plain sight throughout the Book?  I Do not take this lightly, but what He showed me is that the thunders mean the presence of the LORD, Just as it did in the following: And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. (Exodus 19:16) AND The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed. (1 Sam. 2:10)

I Honestly do not know if I can argue this point but I know it is true. This was an epiphany for me in that it opens the understanding to this framework. For me, someone who is used to design and architecture, the difference is like drawing a line on a blueprint, which is 2 dimensions, or being able to view that blueprint and see the structure in three dimensions. Where as most read revelation and see a linear timeline, I see a three dimensional timeline that has depth and overlap, like layers when you are using AutoCAD. 

I think the words are clear: John did not write them there or anywhere else in the book. I take what John wrote as literally as possible when they make sense literally.

I just don't know what the thunders mean, for God has not revealed anything about them to me. But then, I have never meditated on those verses. It seems that verse in 1 Sam - a prophecy by Hannah - is speaking of the end of this age. But does this relate to the 7th thunders?

I don't know that "most" see Revelation as linear. I certainly seem to disagree with many people on these forums. It really is not going to be long and we will know these things for sure.  I still think you are ignoring THE BOOK!  ;-)

[wingnut-]

18 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Where as most read revelation and see a linear timeline, I see a three dimensional timeline that has depth and overlap, like layers when you are using AutoCAD.

 

You're not alone, I have been trying to explain this for years now.  I am not sure that I would say it is 3 dimensional, but certainly not chronological.  In regards to the seven thunders, here is a mystery unto itself that most never touch on or seem to acknowledge, from Revelation 15.

 

Revelation 15  Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and amazing, seven angels with seven plagues, which are the last, for with them the wrath of God is finished.

 

7 angels with 7 plagues, which are the last.  Now, everyone stops there and just misses what follows, assuming these 7 plagues are the bowls/vials of wrath, but they are not.  Go further down in the chapter and you get this.

 

Revelation 15: 6 and out of the sanctuary came the seven angels with the seven plagues, clothed in pure, bright linen, with golden sashes around their chests.

 

Again, 7 angels with 7 plagues, and what immediately follows...

 

Revelation 15: 7 And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever, 

 

Now they are given the 7 bowls/vials.  We get nothing more about the plagues that they already had.  Just something to consider.

 

God bless

[ENOCH2010]

50 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Think for a moment if you had told that to Paul - and he believed you: we would not have much of the New Testament! Paul got his gospel, the very gospel  by which we will be judged, through revealed knowledge. In fact, Jesus said that was the ROCK upon which He would build His church.

Therefore, if God reveals something to someone, it is usually to be SHARED.

1 Corinthians 14:30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

 

Paul didn't have the Bible like we do today. I don't think I would be comparing myself to Paul if I were you. I guess we can all assume if God decides to write a couple more chapters of the Revelation you are the man to do it.

Edited November 2, 2019 by ENOCH2010

[wingnut-]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I could ask another question: WHY NOT at the 7th trumpet?

 

Let's play a little game here called, iamlamad's insistence on chronology.  So why can the millennium not begin at the 7th trumpet iamlamad?  Easy, because two chapters later you have this beast that enters the picture, and he is ruling for 3 1/2 years.  The millennial reign is Christ's reign, with an iron scepter no less.

 

God bless