The Preamble

[Dennis1209]

Here we go again.

In the first chapter of Genesis, "And God said", occurs nine times. In the six day creation account in order; And "God said":, what was made or created prior to the first evening and morning? You can't start at "in the beginning" as the first day of the creation account. 

[johnthebaptist]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Here we go again.

In the first chapter of Genesis, "And God said", occurs nine times. In the six day creation account in order; And "God said":, what was made or created prior to the first evening and morning? You can't start at "in the beginning" as the first day of the creation account. 

Only God knows the answer to your question, perhaps, but I don't see where the Bible reports that anything at all was created before the first day.

[OldCoot]

There has been much debate that there is a break between V1 and V2 of Genesis 1.  That instead of "the earth was without form and void", the literal of the Hebrew is "the earth became without form and void".  Haya Tohu va Bohu.   It is debated that the heavens and the earth were created and then the rebellion of Satan and the angels occurred, which left the earth void. Then we have the 6 days of creation we know and are familiar with.   

It can effectively argued that the angels, being created beings, were created when the Heavens and the earth were created.  They have a limited dimensionality just as humans have their own limited dimensionality.  The angels must live within the dimensionality of the created universe.  But it is obvious that they rebelled at some point before the 6 days of Genesis which is the world we know now.  So it is not outside of a reasoned assumption that the Haya (became, to become, etc) without form and void was a result of that rebellion.  How long of a period of time was involved between V1 and V2 can only be speculated.  And I don't adhere to any singular idea on what that period of time was.

On a more humorous note, of all the days in Genesis in which Yahweh was creating the existence we know now, there is one day that He did not declare was "good".  The second day, which we consider as Monday.  So as a bit of humor, it can be said that Monday was not a good day to Yahweh just like many think that Monday is a bad day of work.  So it is ok to think Mondays are the worse day of the week.... even Yahweh did not say it was good.    Just a way to lighten things up and try to see a bit of humor in the account.  A little levity never hurts.  After all, humor is one of His creations also.

Edited November 24, 2019 by OldCoot

[Jostler]

Job 38:4-7

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Here we go again.

In the first chapter of Genesis, "And God said", occurs nine times. In the six day creation account in order; And "God said":, what was made or created prior to the first evening and morning? You can't start at "in the beginning" as the first day of the creation account. 

`God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.` (Gen. 1: 5)

darkness (on the face of the deep)....first day, as in the evening part of the first day.

evening then the morning = day.

[Marilyn C]

`In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.....darkness was on the face of the deep......and the darkness he called Night.`

Beginning - heavens & earth / darkness = evening part of the first day.....

[OldCoot]

3 hours ago, Jostler said:

Job 38:4-7

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

 

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

 

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

 

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The sequence in Genesis 1:1 is that the heavens and the earth. Since there is a distinction between them, the order in verse 1 implies the foundations of the earth was formed after the Heavens.  So it is indeed still plausible that the heavens were created, the angels were created, and the earth was created.    The text of Job 38 does not say the morning stars and the sons of God shouted for joy at the foundations of the heavens being laid, only the earth.  One would think if they were there, they would also shout for joy over the heavens being formed.   So that implies a gap of time between the heavens being laid out and the earth being laid out.  And that interval of time could be when the angels were formed.

Sometimes it helps to think sequentially like a detective, attorney, or rabbi.

Angels, just like humans, are subject to the dimensionality of time.  Like humans, they can look backward in time, but they cannot look forward and predict the future.  They only know what has been revealed to them just like us.  Only the sovereign Lord has that capability of knowing the end from the beginning because He is outside the constraints of time. Angels have limitations within the dimensionality of the created universe.  That would imply they were created after the universe (heavens) was created.  Even the angel that gave the Revelation to John was given that Revelation from Yeshua Himself.  The angel did not know the future events laid out in the Revelation prior to that.

Revelation 1:1 (NKJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

And I find it difficult to believe the Lord created the earth without form and void, especially since the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2 claims that the earth "became" without form and void after it was created in Genesis 1:1.  The Lord only creates perfection.  Something else messes it up.  And only evil defiles the perfect creation of God.  So evil entered creation at some point between the heavens being created in Gen 1:1, and the earth becoming without form and void in Gen 1:2.

Edited November 24, 2019 by OldCoot

[OldCoot]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

`In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.....darkness was on the face of the deep......and the darkness he called Night.`

Beginning - heavens & earth / darkness = evening part of the first day.....

You are combining verse 1 and verse 2 as being one in the same event.  How then does the Hebrew ( haya ) at the start of verse 2 state that the earth became void?  That becoming / to become / became void, by implication stating that the earth was previously not void?    Nothing in the text states or even implies the earth was initially created without form and void.  That would impune the character of the Lord by implying He does not create perfectly. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by OldCoot

[OldCoot]

It becomes a real stretch to assume that the heavens were created, the earth was created, the angles rebelled, and the earth became without form and void and it all got a reboot as part of the first 24 hour day as expounded on in Genesis 1:5.

Physicist Gerald Schroeder, in his book "The Science of God" shows that due to the physics in the stretching of space, the dimensionality of time, and other aspects, what would seem to be 13 billion years at the surface of earth  would be only 6 days at the edge of the known universe.  I am not suggesting that what he states is true, but that if we only look at these things from narrow experience and limitations and not realize that time is a proven physical dimension that literally can change based on acceleration, gravity, the warping and stretching of space, etc, we risk not having a proper perspective on these things.   

I do believe the creation account from Genesis 1:3 onward was indeed a literal six 24 hour days. But that it also was the reboot from what happened in verses 1 and 2 which we have no ability to ascertain the amount of time those two verses covered.  But we do know that at verse 3, "then" ( a point after the time covered in verses 1 and 2) the Lord started the reboot creation process we believe in.

Edited November 24, 2019 by OldCoot

[Yeshua153]

5 hours ago, OldCoot said:

There has been much debate that there is a break between V1 and V2 of Genesis 1.  That instead of "the earth was without form and void", the literal of the Hebrew is "the earth became without form and void".  Haya Tohu va Bohu.   It is debated that the heavens and the earth were created and then the rebellion of Satan and the angels occurred, which left the earth void. Then we have the 6 days of creation we know and are familiar with.   

I agree the earth 'became' in v2, the only perfection was in v1, as well as being the only creation verse! The 6 days were not days of creation, they were of making & forming from what was created in v1. I believe satan & his angels polluted the earth, on their downfall, so to make the dust of the earth corrupt, so that when God made man, it was from the corrupt dust, even though God said it was very good in v31, meaning very good for the dust that He worked with.

I believe Adam was not perfect, as he would have had a glitch in him, ready to sin at the appointed time, just like we all have, until we disobey & sin. This would fit in with the salvation plan of God, for His elect family, whom He predestined before the foundation of the world.

It could be debated that Eden was the only place on earth that was perfect, but then it still had the tree of knowledge of good & evil, & would also mean that God would have created again with Eden, as the rest of the earth was formed from corrupt dust. People will think I'm crazy with all this, but for me it is consistent with scripture. Like in Rom 7v9  Where Paul said 'I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived & I died.'