GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[BibleGuy]

9 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I thought Abraham had the rite performed on himself, and every male of his household, regardless of age, including all his servants.

Isn't the story of Abraham in Torah (the 5 Book of Moses)? 

If you're saying that TORAH is only those commands given by the LORD through Moses, then that leaves out Genesis and several chapters of Exodus. 

Genesis 17:10 "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 "And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. 13 "A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant." (NAS)

Genesis 17:23 Then Abraham took Ishmael his son (age 14), and all the servants who were born in his house and all who were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's household, and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the very same day, as God had said to him. (NAS)

"Isn't the story of Abraham in Torah (the 5 Book of Moses)? "

I don't view Genesis as the Torah of Moses.....Moses wasn't even born yet!

 

"If you're saying that TORAH is only those commands given by the LORD through Moses, then that leaves out Genesis and several chapters of Exodus. "

We have ABRAHAMIC TORAHS (Ge.26:5)....and we have MOSAIC TORAH (1Ki.2:3 referring to Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy).

These are NOT IDENTICAL (Dt.5:3).

And, we actually know precious little about Abrahamic Torah.....it's largely unknown.  We don't really know the full extent of the instructions cited in Ge.26:5.

 

And, as I posted elsewhere, the ONGOING mark of circumcision in Ge. 17:12 (AND Lev.12:3) is via INFANT circumcision....NOT adult-male-Gentile-convert circumcision.

This MUST be true....otherwise the Torah-obedient Paul wrote a self-contradiction in 1Cor.7:19.

 

blessings...

 

 

 

 

[Michael37]

21 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

Good!  Let's REBUKE as Paul requires...in obedience to ALL TORAH (2Ti.3:16).

Let's be sound in the FAITH.  FAITH is of TORAH (Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138).

blessings...

Let us avoid striving about the law for reasons cited below...

Tit 3:3-9
(3)  For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
(4)  But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
(5)  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
(6)  Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
(7)  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(8)  This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
(9)  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
 

[BibleGuy]

1 minute ago, Michael37 said:

Let us avoid striving about the law for reasons cited below...

Tit 3:3-9
(3)  For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
(4)  But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
(5)  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
(6)  Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
(7)  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(8)  This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
(9)  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
 

Agreed!  Avoid FOOLISH strivings about the law....not ALL strivings about the law!

JESUS STRIVED about the law with anti-Torah religious people (Mt.23:23).

We MUST do likewise (Lk.6:40;1Jn.2:6).

blessings...

 

[Behold]

18 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

 

Great!  Be redeemed by the blood.  

THEN OBEY TORAH! (2Ti.3:16;1Jn.5:3;Jn.14:15+Mt.5:19)

 

blessings...

 

"be redeemed by the blood, then keep the law".

you are preaching Galatians 1:8

[Alive]

Col. 2:16   So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, ¹⁷ which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. ¹⁸ Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, ¹⁹ and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

 

Col. 2:20   Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— ²¹ “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” ²² which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? ²³ These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

Col. 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. ² Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. ³ For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

[BibleGuy]

2 hours ago, Behold said:

"be redeemed by the blood, then keep the law".

you are preaching Galatians 1:8

Gal.1:8 is preached by PAUL who preaches justification by BLOOD (Rom.5:9) AND LAW (Rom.2:13), TOGETHER.....NOT Law without faith (Gal.5:4-5)....

Gal. 1:8 upholds Paul's Gospel which requires that we HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREACHED (1Cor.15:1-2) which is TORAH (Dt.30:14 cited at Rom.10:8;2Ti.3:16;1Cor.7:19).

Paul requires faithful OBEDIENCE (Rom.1:5).

Paul requires faithful OBEDIENCE (Rom.16:26).

Paul requires FAITH AND LAW (Rom.3:27).

Paul requires FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

Paul requires FAITH (Gal.3:11 citing Hab.2:4) which is of TORAH (Ps.119:30,86,138;Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20).

Paul requires Faith (Rom.5:1) AND Law (1Cor.7:19).

Paul requires faith (Gal.5:22-23) which is of Torah (Ps.119:30,86,138;Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20).

 

So don't worry....I uphold Paul's words!

After all, Paul UPHOLDS (not cancels!) Torah (Rom.3:31).

Paul says STOP SINNING (1Cor.15:34), meaning OBEY TORAH (given Rom.3:20;7:7).

Paul upholds the New Covenant (1Cor.11) which is given as Torah (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

Paul affirms the New Covenant includes Torah being obeyed "from now and forever" (citing Is.59:20-21 at Rom.11:26-27).

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

Col. 2:16   So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, ¹⁷ which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. ¹⁸ Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, ¹⁹ and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

 

Col. 2:20   Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— ²¹ “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” ²² which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? ²³ These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

Col. 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. ² Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. ³ For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

"Col. 2:16   So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths"

Good point!  Do NOT judge people who obey Torah as they should! (Mt.5:19;2Ti.3:16;1Jn.5:3)

After all, Jesus requires Sabbath (Mk.2:27) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

Paul REQUIRES festivals (e.g., Pesach, 1Cor.5:7-8).

Paul UPHOLDS Isaiah (citing Isaiah in Rom.11)...and Isaiah affirms that NEW MOON and SABBATH continue into the NEW EARTH (Is.66:22-23).

 

" ¹⁷ which are a shadow of things to come,"

GREAT point!  They ARE (present tense!) an ONGOING shadow!  They are NOT terminated.  So obey!

 

"the substance is of Christ. "

True.  The substance of Torah is Christ (Col.2:17;Jn.1:14).  So OF COURSE we should obey His words!   He requires ALL Torah (Mt.5:19) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

 

" ¹⁸ Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,"

Good point.  The flesh is BAD.  The flesh disobeys Torah (Rom.8:7).  So STOP the flesh!  STOP Torah-disobedience!  OBEY!  That's what the Spirit leads us to do (Rom.8:13;Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21).

 

" and not holding fast to the Head"

Yes.  HOLD FAST to the Head (Christ) who requires ALL Torah (Mt.5:19).

 

" from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God"

Yes!  This upholds GOD who requires TORAH (Dt.1:3;5:27-33;etc).   So obey!

 

"Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world"

Right!  We died to WORLDY principles.  Torah is NOT a worldly principle!  

 

" why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—"

True.....STOP obeying silly worldly principles.  Obey JESUS instead! Jesus requires all Torah (Mt.5:19).

 

"¹ “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” ²² which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?"

True.  STOP obeying silly man-made rules.  OBEY TORAH from GOD!  After all, Torah passes directly into the NEW Covenant (Jer.31:33).

 

"²³ These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body"

Yes.  These things are NOT wisdom.  So obey TORAH!  Because TORAH is your wisdom (Dt. 4:6).

And AVOID false humility.  Be TRULY HUMBLE.  God's grace is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3;Ex.33:13;Nu.12:3).

 

 

"but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh."

AWESOME point.  The flesh is bad.  The flesh disobeys Torah (Rom.8:7).  So OBEY Torah!  STOP THE FLESH! (Rom.8:13)

 

"Col. 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above"

Good.  Christ is above...and Christ requires Torah (Mt.5:19).  SEEK the kingdom of God (Mt.6:33)....which you will inherit IF you obey Torah better than the corrupted Pharisees (Mt.5:20).

 

"where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God"

This affirms Christ who requires Torah (Mt.5:19).

This affirms God who requires Torah (Dt.1:3;5:27-33;etc.)

So obey!

 

" Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. ³ For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God."

Very good.  SEEK the kingdom of God (Mt.6:33)....which you will inherit IF you obey Torah better than the corrupted Pharisees (Mt.5:20).

This verse again affirms Christ who requires Torah (Mt.5:19).

This verse again affirms God who requires Torah (Dt.1:3;5:27-33;etc.)

 

Thanks for bringing out this passage written by Paul who requires all Torah (2Ti.3:16).

These are encouraging words.

 

blessings...

 

[Resurrection Priest]

16 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

And sure enough, in the Torah of Moses, we do NOT see the ONGOING mark required of adult-male-Gentile-converts....but only via INFANTS (Lev.12:3).

What about the circumcision of Joshua?

I thought Joshua "circumcised" all the men after crossing the Jordan into the land, because no circumcision was performed during the 40 years wandering. 

Weren't those men of all ages?  Only those over 60 at the time of the Jordan crossing would have been circumcised - as infants. 

Joshua 5:3 "So Joshua made flint knives and circumcised the Israelites on the Hill of the Foreskins."

Joshua 5:5  "For all the people who came out [of Egypt] were circumcised, but all the people who were born in the wilderness along the way as they came out of Egypt had not been circumcised."  

Joshua 5:7 "And their children [the children of all those over 20 who died in the wilderness] whom He [the LORD] raised up in their place, Joshua circumcised; for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them along the way."

QUESTION:  What is your understanding of WHY circumcision had not been performed (even on infants) during the 40 years of wandering?  Did the LORD regard them as not in covenant with Him? 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Resurrection Priest

[Blood Bought 1953]

When you stand before Jesus and you are  giving an account of yourself as to why He should allow you to enter His Kingdom , will you be like me and say... “I did absolutely NOTHING  that justifies me spending Eternity with You in Heaven.... “ EXCEPT” for the ONE thing that I “DID” do!    I BELIEVED in Your Gospel Of Grace- Plus NOTHING......the Proof That I Believed it and it ONLY in order to be Saved is in the fact that You know my Heart—- You know that I RESTED in that Gospel....

The vast majority of those that will stand before Christ will be scrambling for ways to come up with the things that THEY did to deserve justification . Jesus talked about them..... “ I” did this and “ I” did that, they will be wailing.....I wonder what they will be specifically offering up on that Day?  “ Yes, Jesus, I acknowledge that your Shed Blood was a “ MUST” ! Absolutely !Everybody knows THAT! .....BUT .....even though it was a “ must”.......I added a thing or two that “ I” had to do to get the job done—Your Blood  was “essential”, it just wasn’t  totally “ effective”. ( Now, feel free at this point to inject all of those DEAD WORKS that you felt compelled to add to the Gospel to SAVE and KEEP YOU SAVED  )  “ I went to  Church every Sunday” ...... “ I tithed”...... “ I kept the Ten Commandments”....... “ I lived by the Sermon on the Mound”....... “I did the best that I could”...... “ I repented of all of my sins -especially those Willful Ones- before I died”..... “ I OBEYED THE GOSPEL as best I could, even though Paul declared that it was WEAK and USELESS as far as Salvation was concerned because it had NO POWER TO SAVE.....”

These Multitudes that went beyond and essentially ADDED to the Gospel Of Grace only , who ADDED to NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD for Salvation - a GIFT-are  the ones that will hear... “ DEPART FROM ME , FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU!” I think these Deceived Souls That “Trample on the Blood Of Christ” by  “ treating  it as something ordinary” , that must be improved upon — I think that these are the ones that will be cast out by Jesus. Call me “ crazy”, but I think that Jesus wants “ALL” the Glory due Him.He sees no reason to share any credit for one’s Salvation.That is because there is none . Those that try to justify themselves by anything that “ they” did  to merit Salvation, other than simply BELIEVE are going to be in for a long Day— perhaps a very HOT day! Be safe on Judgement Day....why put yourself in Jeopardy ?   REST IN THE GOSPEL of GRACE ! 1Cor15:1-4

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[Resurrection Priest]

22 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

RESTING in the fact that Salvation is ALL OF HIM and NONE OF YOU  is what saves,

AMEN! 

We do have a part - a choice.  We must choose not to resist. 

Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless my Father draws them"  (John 6:44).

If we do not resist the Father, we will be drawn to the feet of Jesus.  If we do not resist, He will then write His Law on our hearts.  It is the Law of unselfish love for God and for our fellow man. 

The dynamic between grace, and resulting "good works" is sometimes difficult to understand, especially for the new believer. 

It's NOT that anyone can earn salvation by doing good things.  No way!  Salvation is never earned.  It the gift of God. 

But the Spirit of God pouring into our hearts, fills us with good will toward others.  The resulting "good works" are the result of that Spirit within.   Those works are a witness to others of Jesus' love - and that He is risen, and lives today - within us. 

Looking at someone from the outside, it can be difficult to tell whether a person is doing the good things to "make points with God" OR is doing them because he is so full of God's love that he cannot help loving others.  (He has become an extension of God's love in this world.)   But God knows.   

Many people are saying repetitious prayers over and over and over, because they live in fear.  They are "buying fire insurance" - or think they are.  Such people do not know the love God has for them.   If they only knew His love, they would run to His open arms crying with joy.