The timing of the rapture

[kenny2212]

I have noticed that people are behaving as if the Lord Jesus will never come back. But God said in his word in Revelation 22:12 that - "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done (NIV). 

I assume we all know God exists and know that what he says always comes to pass. The issue now is how to know which one of the various views about the bible is what God said. What I'm sure everyone would agree with me about is that no one's reward is on the earth. That's why it's called reward; it's given after a period of examination. Life on earth is the examination. This supports the idea of a rapture. God can't wait to give us our rewards he raptures us. The popular question is "when will the rapture happen?"

There are many answers to this question but the one I subscribe to is the one given in the Book of Revelation. Believers are present for part of the tribulation but not all of it. Some people say the rapture happens before the tribulation because of Rev. 4:1. I can't understand how anyone would say it represents the rapture. It was only John who was asked to come up; not all Christians. But the tribulation does start in chapter 4 because God doesn't get to open seals, trumpets and bowls every other day. The rapture happens in Rev. 6. I say so because of the multiplicity of seals on the scroll.Logically I don't think 1 seal would have been enough to reveal all the things God wanted to reveal. The trumpets and bowls are in the 7th seal. The seals contain all the things God wants to reveal and definitely the seals would touch the rapture. Which it does in Rev. 6:12-17 and Rev.7:9-17 (see also matt. 24:29-31). The sealed scroll is in the hand of God himself. The sealed scroll is the Book of Revelation. God protects his children from his (God's) wrath and raptures his children from man's wrath. The rapture happens before the Antichrist becomes the the Antichrist. If you are still here when the Antichrist becomes the Antichrist, brethren you've been left behind. Thank you.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by kenny2212
Added new info

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

You mentioned a lot of stuff here which I have to look over. My question for you is: since you believe that God will "rapture" believers before the period  Of Great Tribulation begins, who exactly is going to be down here witnessing the gospel to those who are really going to need it before the end of the world?

The 2 witnesses of Revelation n the 144000.

[missmuffet]

11 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

I have noticed that people are behaving as if the Lord Jesus will never come back. But God said in his word in Revelation 22:12 that - "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done (NIV). 

I assume we all know God exists and know that what he says always comes to pass. The issue now is how to know which one of the various views about the bible is what God said. What I'm sure everyone would agree with me about is that no one's reward is on the earth. That's why it's called reward; it's given after a period of examination. Life on earth is the examination. This supports the idea of a rapture. God can't wait to give us our rewards he raptures us. The popular question is "when will the rapture happen?"

There are many answers to this question but the one I subscribe to is the one given in the Book of Revelation. Believers are present for part of the tribulation but not all of it. Some people say the rapture happens before the tribulation because of Rev. 4:1. I can't understand how anyone would say it represents the rapture. It was only John who was asked to come up; not all Christians. But the tribulation does start in chapter 4 because God doesn't get to open seals, trumpets and bowls every other day. The rapture happens in Rev. 6. I say so because of the multiplicity of seals on the scroll.Logically I don't think 1 seal would have been enough to reveal all the things God wanted to reveal. The trumpets and bowls are in the 7th seal. The seals contain all the things God wants to reveal and definitely the seals would touch the rapture. Which it does in Rev. 6:12-17 and Rev.7:9-17 (see also matt. 24:29-31). The sealed scroll is in the hand of God himself. The sealed scroll is the Book of Revelation. God protects his children from his (God's) wrath and raptures his children from man's wrath. The rapture happens before the Antichrist becomes the the Antichrist. If you are still here when the Antichrist becomes the Antichrist, brethren you've been left behind. Thank you.

 

 

We do not know when the rapture of the Church will happen. It is immient and could happen at any time. Even before you type your next word. After the rapture of the Church comes the 7 year tribulation and after the 7 year tribulation comes the 1000 year millennium and after the 1000 year millennium comes eternity. 

[kenny2212]

Missmuffet, I'm not saying that I know when the rapture will happen. What I'm saying is that the sealed scroll contains all of God's mighty plan for the endtimes. In Rev. 4 the sealed scroll is in the hand of God himself. The trumpets and bowls are in the 7th seal. There has always been tribulation in the world. The difference with that of the final 7 years is that the persecution of those who want to believe would increase exponentially. God bless you.

[kenny2212]

15 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

You mentioned a lot of stuff here which I have to look over. My question for you is: since you believe that God will "rapture" believers before the period  Of Great Tribulation begins, who exactly is going to be down here witnessing the gospel to those who are really going to need it before the end of the world?

And I also have a question for u: Of what benefit is it to the Christian if he (or she) stays the whole 7 years? Jesus said it himself -"...In the world ye shall have tribulation..."(John 16:33 KJV). There has always been and there will always be tribulation in the world. Anyone who receives the mark of the beast is damned. That doesn't require much preaching, does it? God bless you Walter Goraj jr. 

[WilliamL]

19 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

God protects his children from his (God's) wrath and raptures his children from man's wrath. The rapture happens before the Antichrist becomes the the Antichrist. If you are still here when the Antichrist becomes the Antichrist, brethren you've been left behind. Thank you.

Good post. This is a key part of the misunderstanding of many. The Son of Perdition of 2 Thes. 2 does come before the Rapture, but dies at the time of it:

2 Thes. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his Parousia/coming...

The Beast appears afterward to set up his reign among those not raptured.

The Son of Perdition is not the Beast, but many erroneously call both "the Antichrist." Therein is the confusion of many.

[WilliamL]

 

16 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

This is walter...that is not my post. I don't know how that got changed with someone else's.

  Sorry about that. I apparently didn't scroll up enough and copied part of Kenny's message out of your post instead of his.

23 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

God protects his children from his (God's) wrath and raptures his children from man's wrath. The rapture happens before the Antichrist becomes the the Antichrist. If you are still here when the Antichrist becomes the Antichrist, brethren you've been left behind. Thank you.

See last post on page 1, if you haven't already.

[DeighAnn]

In Hosea 1 -  LO Ammi are "NOT my people" and LO Ruhamah are "not compassionated or Not beloved" but by Chapter 2 we are being called "Ammi - My people" and "Ruhamah - Pitied One".  I bring these up to show a tiny bit of who will be where, when.   God does not leave us guessing as to His plan of Salvation.  The reason we are given the prophets. 

Chapter 2 tells of the latter state, Chapter 3 brings us back to the present.  
Hosea 2:1 Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah.
Hosea 2:2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;
Hosea 2:3 Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst.
Hosea 2:4 And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms.
Hosea 2:5 For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink.
Hosea 2:6 Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths.
Hosea 2:7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now.
Hosea 2:8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.
Hosea 2:9 Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof, and my wine in the season thereof, and will recover my wool and my flax given to cover her nakedness.
Hosea 2:10 And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of mine hand.
Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
Hosea 2:12 And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she hath said, These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: and I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them.
Hosea 2:13 And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith the LORD.
Hosea 2:14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
Hosea 2:15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
Hosea 2:16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.

These are but a few of the verses that take place before the Lords Day.  Gods People become the whores/ idolaters, not through a lack of love, or "belief" but through a lack of knowledge.   God likens adultery to idolatry so we can understand what it feels like to HIM when we worship other gods or let ourselves be deceived because we lack His knowledge.  Study to show yourselves approved, a workman, rightly dividing......We are living in a special age in which we have a short time to absorb all the new truths God is opening eyes to,  before the famine comes, the famine in the end times for "the Word of God"

I realize I am at odds with the Christian community as to the length of time of the Tribulation but because God said "I will shorten the time for the elects sake" I believe that is exactly what He will do.  I believe it is the "hour of temptation (a proving, )" a 5 month period.  Satan is coming AS the "instead of Christ", (I don't say ANTI because the word it seems to be taken as the "opposite of" instead of "the imitating of") He is going to be coming in with lies and deception and flatteries and peace (fake as it is) having healed the deadly wound and his object is to:

STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE AND BE WORSHIPPED AS GOD.  He is not going to be "killing everyone"  The time "as never before seen" is the STEALING OF SOULS THROUGH HIS DECEPTION. 

The APOSTASY  is of those who perish because of a lack of knowledge, a great falling away, not because the don't love God but  BECAUSE THEY will BELIEVE a lie, they believe  IT IS THE REAL CHRIST come back.   They believe him with all his lying wonders and miracles, the likes of which we have never seen.  SO yes, the "church" will be here up until the 2nd Advent when Christ and His armies return, when ALL WILL BE CHANGED.  When reading  1 CORINTH 15 ALL THE WAY through we find out what we are changed into.   There will be no more flesh bodies, neither of the good nor of the bad, (flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God and that is the beginning the Lords Day.  The lamb and the lion, children playing with snakes etc. no animals in flesh either.   

What was my point? Satans Tribulation of those on earth is a "spiritual" time of troubles.  To those who will worship him, just take the mark,  it is going to be a time of wealth and peace, just like you would imagine it would be like, when, if you are Gods, Christ returns.  That is why Gods People perish from a lack of knowledge. They don't know Gods plan and so become happily and easily deceived by the "most beautiful, wise, made the full pattern, deceitful, seducing, liar" known to have ever been created.   



For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails (tales): for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
They tell lies.  Their lies deceive.  Turn their victims to putty in their hands.  Their victims dont even know they have been slayed until Christ returns.  When they see Christ returning with the armies of heaven, they are going to want to die.  From embarrassment.  From having been seduced, just like EVE was.  And worse than her, we are given an instruction manual with the future events and how to deal with them written inside.  Wow, talk about wanting a mountain to fall on you.  Loving God all your life and then some fake comes along and you fall for it.  God told Adam, don't.  God is telling us don't.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Ephesians 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

WITHSTAND, STAND, STAND THEREFORE,  ALL SAINTS,  I don't know who He is talking to if not us.  Certainly this isn't written to ONLY 144,000.  

 

Saints,
set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred

Help word studies
40 hagios - properly, different (unlike), other, holy, for the believer.   Means "likeness of nature with the Lord" because "different from the world"

different from the world because like the Lord

I apologize for all the different sizes of texts but I am just learning the system and to keep from continually erasing entire pages have decided to leave well enough alone.  

[HAZARD]

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you many be accounted worthy to escape all these things of,  Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3 are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture.. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent  of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

Pastors say it wont be long, it will happen soon, all signs are pointing to a soon to happen rapture.

 

Jesus said that the angels don't know when the rapture will happen, He also said that even He does not know. So if the angels don't know then Satan also doesn't know when it will happen. Only the Father knows according to Jesus.

 

Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

 

Jesus replied,

 

Mark 13:32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

Scripture also states that Satan knows that he has but a short time.

 

Revelation 12:12,Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

Taking in the fact that we and Satan live in eternity future, Satan knew he had but a short time the day he rebelled against the Father, and the fact the Jesus defeated him by His death and resurrection. Any length of time cut from a life to be lived in eternity, no matter when this occurs will be but a short time.

 

The disciples asked Jesus when will this all occur? 

Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

 

5, And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

 6, For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 7, And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

 8, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

 

9, But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10, And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

 

All these things so far at one time or another have been happening since Jesus returned to Heaven and sent the Holy Spirit to keep us and guide us. The only thing I can see that has not yet occurred is the fact the gospel has not yet been preached among all nations.There have been tribes found deep in South America, Papua New Guinea, and other parts of the Earth that have not yet even heard of God, the gospel, or Jesus.

 

"And the gospel must first be published among all nations."

 

So when will it be?

 

Mark 13:33, Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

34, For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

35, Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36, Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37, And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

So when will it be? Lets forget the word "SOON." Only the Father knows, and Jesus knows this much, Jesus commands us to be ever ready, for it can happen any time!

[Neighbor]

On 1/20/2020 at 2:41 PM, kenny2212 said:

What I'm sure everyone would agree with me about is that no one's reward is on the earth.

Hi,  Many have their reward immediately  or receive no reward at all. Matthew 6:1-21

 

...."That's why it's called reward; it's given after a period of examination."... - kenny2212

Well no, don't think so. Again Matthew 6 1-21 speaks otherwise, so it does not support anything.

 

The idea of a  pre-tribulation rapture is far from universal:

There are at least four camps of understanding: make that five, including the many that do not believe a rapture occurs at any time. There is pre-tribution, post tribulation, mid-tribulation, and pre-wrath camps of understanding of timing of a rapture of the church of Jesus Christ. Plus there are at least afew that advocation as many as seven raptures and one I know that believes a rolling rapture is occurring even now. Understanding  of a rapture is far from universal  within Christianity.