"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image...

[Neighbor]

On 2/1/2020 at 2:29 AM, AngelInTraining93 said:

...or any likeness of any thing that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4.

How did it slip my mind to ask this until now?

What is the proper interpretation of this scripture? I understand why Christians should refrain from drawing/making pentagrams and those such things, but what exactly is God saying here? I have heard pastors using this commandment to rebuke people for wearing necklaces with images of the moon. Is that the proper interpretation? What scriptures can I read to gain a full understanding of this?

“Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.”— Daniel iii. 16— 18.

This  sermon by Rev. Charles H.Spurgeon  https://www.spurgeon.org/resource-library/sermons/three-names-high-on-the-muster-roll#flipbook/ h "includes very practical examples of mean's errant manner Example for th etext :  ..."This great king of Babylon was an absolute monarch. His will was law; no man ever dared to dispute with him. Who would differ from a gentleman who could back up his arguments with a fiery furnace, or with a threat to cut you in pieces, and to make your house a dunghill? And now, when it comes to this, that he sets up a god of his own, a huge colossal statue, and gathers all the princes and potentates of his world-wide dominion together, to bow down before this image, it seems a strange thing to him that there should be anybody found who would not do so. And yet"....

[BibleStudent100]

On 1/31/2020 at 11:29 PM, AngelInTraining93 said:

...or any likeness of any thing that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4.

How did it slip my mind to ask this until now?

What is the proper interpretation of this scripture? I understand why Christians should refrain from drawing/making pentagrams and those such things, but what exactly is God saying here? I have heard pastors using this commandment to rebuke people for wearing necklaces with images of the moon. Is that the proper interpretation? What scriptures can I read to gain a full understanding of this?

As mentioned earlier, it is important to get the sense of the historical and cultural context of a text.  The ancient Hebrews had a healthy and appropriate appreciation for art. On coming out of Egypt, the people brought with them gold and silver articles obtained from the Egyptians (Ex 12:35). They gladly contributed such items (items were likely melted down) for the decoration of the tabernacle in the wilderness (Ex 35:21-24). The work of producing the tabernacle with its decorations and equipment gave outlet for their artistic ability in woodworking, metalworking, embroidery, and jewelwork, Bezalel and Oholiab in particular were tasked by God to take the lead in creating artwork and instructing others.  

Now here is where the interesting cultural context comes into play. The Israelites lived in an area surrounded with people who practiced gross idolatry, much of which involved perverse works of art.  The Israelites constantly had their faith tested to stay away from making images, but they failed so many times (e.g. calf worship, etc.).  Yes, at times, the Israelites were instructed to make images (e.g. copper serpent), but they were never to worship these items (e.g. copper serpent in the days of King Hezekiah).  So challenged were the Israelites in avoiding idolatry, that one of the reasons the Israelites were told to cover the tabernacle with a cloth while being transported, was to hid it from the gaze of the populace (Nu 4:5, 6, 19, 20), as the Israelites had such a proclivity to worship idols.

We moderns have a hard time understanding why people would worship some silly object made out of copper, wood or gold, as did the Israelites.  But, perhaps we have a spiritually challenging time of our own avoiding modern idols that our culture says to “worship:”  celebrities, sports heroes, money, sex, etc…

[Guest]

As i read this topic i remembered about being a teenager and how i would have such heart breaking (totally innocent) crushes on male teachers, pop stars and so on. I would spend hours staring at my pop stars posters, adoring them. Wanting them to adore me. Futile. The odd unfortunate male teacher i got fixated upon would find himself being gazed at longingly! 

Of course the crushes passed. But the lesson remains. It was empty adoration, potentially very destructive outside normal youthful borders. Psychopaths and stalkers take it to extremes.

Worship of any image of person, object, or iyems like money or cars etc is emptiness and foolish. When we fall in love it can even then be to our detriment as no mortal can truly fulfill our every need. 

Only Jesus Christ our Lord and through Him our Heavenly Father are right to worship. There are love is safe and brings eternal peace. 

Is this right or am i missing the point? 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Melinda12

[canada]

Within the walls of the Vatican exists a huge bronze statue of "Peter" that so many have bowed down to and kissed it's toe that it is near worn off.

That is a good example of "idol worship".

 

[Daniel Marsh]

On 2/1/2020 at 2:29 AM, AngelInTraining93 said:

...or any likeness of any thing that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4.

How did it slip my mind to ask this until now?

What is the proper interpretation of this scripture? I understand why Christians should refrain from drawing/making pentagrams and those such things, but what exactly is God saying here? I have heard pastors using this commandment to rebuke people for wearing necklaces with images of the moon. Is that the proper interpretation? What scriptures can I read to gain a full understanding of this?

Exodus 20 King James Version (KJV)

20  And God spake all these words, saying,

²  I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Were you someone that was brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage by God?

If not, this text was not written to you. And, you can not seperate these two verses.  Remember verse division is man made.

 

³  Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

⁴  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15027-worship-idol

[missmuffet]

Question: "What is a graven image?"

Answer: The phrase “graven image” comes from the King James Version and is first found in Exodus 20:4 in the second of the Ten Commandments. The Hebrew word translated “graven image” means literally “an idol.” A graven image is an image carved out of stone, wood, or metal. It could be a statue of a person or animal, or a relief carving in a wall or pole. It is differentiated from a molten image, which is melted metal poured into a cast. Abstract Asherah poles, carved wooden Ba’als covered in gold leaf, and etchings of gods accompanying Egyptian hieroglyphics are all graven images.

The progression of idolatry in a pagan religion generally starts with the acknowledgement of a power that controls natural forces. The presence of the force is then thought to indwell an object, like a stone, or a place, like a mountain. The next step is altering a naturally occurring object, like a standing stone, a deliberately planted tree, or a carved Asherah pole and asking the force to indwell it. When the idolatrous culture has had time to contemplate the personality of the god, they then make corresponding physical images—a statue that looks like a woman or a relief carving that looks like an animal. Graven images can be either of the last two steps.

The spiritual progression is similar. People start with wanting something (Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 3:5), often children or prosperity or good crops. They observe the circumstances (which some acknowledge are God-ordained, and others think are independent) that lead to these things and begin to ascribe to the causal forces human characteristics—thus creating gods. Places are set aside to commune with these false gods. For convenience sake, smaller items, thought to hold the power or the communication line of the gods, are brought into homes. Before long, the people are ensnared by the compulsion to give homage to a thing of their own definition instead of to the God of the universe.

The second commandment, recorded in Exodus 20:4–5, reads, “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them.” Likely, this refers back to the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before Me,” and specifically forbids the creation of idols. But it is equally dangerous to create an image of God Himself. God has given us reminders enough of His power and glory (Romans 1:20) without man attempting to use created things to represent the Creator.

Functionally, there is no difference between a “graven” image (Deuteronomy 4:16) and a “molten” image (Exodus 34:17). Both are man’s attempt to define and confine the power of God who works over creation. Both are the result of greed and covetousness, along with the fear that God does not have the worshipers’ best interests at heart. Graven images, whether an idol, a crystal, or a charm, are attempts to limit the power of God and reduce it to a small package that we can control. As with any kind of worship, the object of adoration inevitably controls us.
https://www.gotquestions.org/graven-image.html

Edited February 29, 2020 by missmuffet

[Riverwalker]

wrong place

Edited February 29, 2020 by Riverwalker

[LonerAndy]

On 2/1/2020 at 2:29 AM, AngelInTraining93 said:

...or any likeness of any thing that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4.

How did it slip my mind to ask this until now?

What is the proper interpretation of this scripture? I understand why Christians should refrain from drawing/making pentagrams and those such things, but what exactly is God saying here? I have heard pastors using this commandment to rebuke people for wearing necklaces with images of the moon. Is that the proper interpretation? What scriptures can I read to gain a full understanding of this?

I used to think this was a general prohibition on anything arty.   At the same time, my own father is an artist.   So I often was confused about this scripture.

Then I realized that if you go to 1 Kings 7, it describes the first Temple to G-d, built by King Solomon.   You read of bronze bulls, lions, Cherubim, and many other artist things placed in the Temple.

So the leads me to believe that the engraved images are referring to something you worship.  I would think that the Japanese tradition of having pictures of your dead relatives, with a shrine, and bowing to it, would be under this ban.  (not that I have a problem with Japanese, but this is the example that came to mind).

[BeauJangles]

31 minutes ago, LonerAndy said:

Then I realized that if you go to 1 Kings 7, it describes the first Temple to G-d, built by King Solomon.   You read of bronze bulls, lions, Cherubim, and many other artist things placed in the Temple.

Yes, there were. It would seem you've addressed the issue here. 

31 minutes ago, LonerAndy said:

So the leads me to believe that the engraved images are referring to something you worship. 

Sculptured images such as those were not given homage. Honor but not worship. 

 

The phrase “graven image” comes from the King James Version and is first found in Exodus 20:4 in the second of the Ten Commandments. The Hebrew word translated “graven image” means literally “an idol.” A graven image is an image carved out of stone, wood, or metal.

Edited March 11, 2020 by BeauJangles