2021 Rapture

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

Even if the people in Israel were to reinstall the ancient ritualistic practice of animal sacrifice on a daily basis; the Lord would not be concerned about some external entity bringing about such a practices termination. Can you tell me what the Lords sacrifice in Bozrah and great slaughter in the land of Idumea in Isaiah 34:6 represents? Hint: It's the same sacrifice and slaughter in Isaiah 28:18-20.

Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

God is going to take GREAT interest because the devil's plan (again) is to wipe Israel off the map. As for the stopping of the daily sacrifices, they will certainly start again or the scriptures would be silent. But God will take notice again because it will be the man of sin entering the temple and declaring HE is the God of Israel. Of course God will take notice of that! Anyway, this will be in the middle of Daniel's 70th week and God will be involved very much in the entire week. 

I think Isaiah 34 and 28 are both talking about the 70th week of Daniel.  Bozrah and Idumea is probably speaking of the city of Petra where many think those in Judea will flee to when they see the abomination. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

I agree that there is no escaping tribulation.  In the world, we as believers will have tribulation.  The world hated Him, it will hate us.

Overcoming in the end times will be an extension of having lived an overcoming life.  It will be because we stayed awake and didn't compromise with and become entangled in the things of the world.

On the other hand, God has provided a way of escape for those with faith to accept it. Therefore those who "overcome" during the days of GT Jesus spoke of will be those saints left behind who did not choose to take God's escape. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Eddy Crocker said:

Bible tells us in Revelation about overcomes. How can you be an overcomer if your taken out of the world before your tried and tested. 

This is Jesus’s prayer for us found in  John 17:15....I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  
Rapture theory has us taken out of the world before we overcome the tribulations of the world. 
True overcomers go thru things and not going around things.

Some people take God's escape plan and so will not be here to overcome (Luke 21:36). Jesus prayer happened just as He prayed: people don't just disappear when they are born again! God leaves us here as witnesses. 

If you wish to be left behind so you can be a "true" overcomer, that is your choice. But WHY? God has made a way of escape.  In John's letters he explains that a TRUE overcomer is one who gets born again! In that respect even those who choose to take God's escape plan (the pretrib rapture) are still overcomers. 

[Eddy Crocker]

2 hours ago, Eddy Crocker said:

The rapture theory is taken from I believe the parable about there will be two in the field one will be taken and the other remains. Two will be grinding at the mill one taken the other remains. Two will be in a bed one is taken the other remains.

The problem about the rapture theory is most people or churches say it’s a physical taking up of our bodies, but scripture disproves that notion as I will explain.

Scripture says in Colossians 3:1, If ye  then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Doesn't this sound like a rapture or a state of elevation. According to the rapture theory We will be caught up physically there already. So the question is why are we seeking those thing that are above if we are already there. We can’t and that blows up that theory. The rapture has to be interpreted as a state not a physical catching away. 

Another scripture says in Ephesians 2:6, which says And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together In heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We have been raised or elevated to sit in Heavenly places in Christ. Hmmm.. sounds like a rapture again.

It talks about Jesus not able to do many mighty works in his own hometown because of their unbelief. They said in Mathew 13:55, is not this the carpenters son? Is this not his mother called Mary? And this not his brothers and sisters and it names them. 
Interesting....Hmmm... I wonder why this? The reason why is, people only saw his physical shell as a carpenters son. Sounds like he was living in an elevated state or rapture in those heavens place which is a state he was living in while his physical shell (Body) was on the earth.

 

Read above what I wrote earlier. Don’t think scripture supports a physical Rapture or a catching away. I prove it thru scripture.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Eddy Crocker said:

The rapture theory is taken from I believe the parable about there will be two in the field one will be taken and the other remains. Two will be grinding at the mill one taken the other remains. Two will be in a bed one is taken the other remains.

The problem about the rapture theory is most people or churches say it’s a physical taking up of our bodies, but scripture disproves that notion as I will explain.

Scripture says in Colossians 3:1, If ye  then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Doesn't this sound like a rapture or a state of elevation. According to the rapture theory We will be caught up physically there already. So the question is why are we seeking those thing that are above if we are already there. We can’t and that blows up that theory. The rapture has to be interpreted as a state not a physical catching away. 

Another scripture says in Ephesians 2:6, which says And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together In heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We have been raised or elevated to sit in Heavenly places in Christ. Hmmm.. sounds like a rapture again.

It talks about Jesus not able to do many mighty works in his own hometown because of their unbelief. They said in Mathew 13:55, is not this the carpenters son? Is this not his mother called Mary? And this not his brothers and sisters and it names them. 
Interesting....Hmmm... I wonder why this? The reason why is, people only saw his physical shell as a carpenters son. Sounds like he was living in an elevated state or rapture in those heavens place which is a state he was living in while his physical shell (Body) was on the earth.

No, the pretrib rapture comes straight from Paul in 1 Thes. 4 & 5, and in 2 Thes. 2. 

Indeed, Paul in Ephesians tells us that we  "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." (As you pointed out.)   This is speaking only of the realm of the spirit. But that being said, everyone born again whose heart is still pumping is physically on the earth. When we go to heaven, we will all go PHYSICALLY, with our bodies.  Sorry, the pretrib rapture theory is still here. You did not blow it up.  We are STILL going to be caught up and changed on the way into a resurrection body.  In other words, you missed it here. 

[Eddy Crocker]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

No, the pretrib rapture comes straight from Paul in 1 Thes. 4 & 5, and in 2 Thes. 2. 

Indeed, Paul in Ephesians tells us that we  "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." (As you pointed out.)   This is speaking only of the realm of the spirit. But that being said, everyone born again whose heart is still pumping is physically on the earth. When we go to heaven, we will all go PHYSICALLY, with our bodies.  Sorry, the pretrib rapture theory is still here. You did not blow it up.  We are STILL going to be caught up and changed on the way into a resurrection body.  In other words, you missed it here. 

If you look at the story of Joshua and Caleb. They sent 12 spies into the promised land to spy out the land.

10 came back with an evil report. Joshua and Caleb died to their Adamic nature and the evil reports that said we are grasshoppers in their sight. There are giants in the land. Because they truly died to that Adamic nature they were able to go into the promised land while they were living.

The promised land is allegorical to heaven showing us if we die to the when we are living we will be able to be ushered into the promised land (Heaven).

In Adam we all die in Christ we live. You can only truly be born again from above if you die to that Adamic nature. Scripture also says it’s appointed unto men once to die then the resurrection or the Judgment takes place.

The question is when is that death going to be? Is it going to be at the death of your physical body or are you going to die while living. Those that are already dead to that nature, if they were to die now, it would not be a death unto them because there already dead living in heavenly places now in the realm of time which is heaven.

[luigi]

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

God is going to take GREAT interest because the devil's plan (again) is to wipe Israel off the map. As for the stopping of the daily sacrifices, they will certainly start again or the scriptures would be silent. But God will take notice again because it will be the man of sin entering the temple and declaring HE is the God of Israel. Of course God will take notice of that! Anyway, this will be in the middle of Daniel's 70th week and God will be involved very much in the entire week. 

I think Isaiah 34 and 28 are both talking about the 70th week of Daniel.  Bozrah and Idumea is probably speaking of the city of Petra where many think those in Judea will flee to when they see the abomination. 

The entire Middle East is what the abomination of desolation will annihilate, with the exception of Edom, Moab, and Ammon (Daniel 11:40-41). Put scripture together with scripture to come up with a substantiated perspective, rather than just present your unsubstantiated subjective perspectives.

Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Edited April 11, 2020 by luigi

[Last Daze]

53 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

On the other hand, God has provided a way of escape for those with faith to accept it. Therefore those who "overcome" during the days of GT Jesus spoke of will be those saints left behind who did not choose to take God's escape. 

If you are alluding to Revelation 3:10, let's look at it.

• Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.  Revelation 3:10

We don't have to wonder what God meant when He refers to the word of His perseverance because he tells us explicitly what He means . . . twice in fact so there's no doubt.

• If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.  Revelation 13:10
• And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”  Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.  Revelation 14:11-12

Keeping the word of His perseverance, in the end time context, is the same as being victorious over the beast and his image.  The scriptures explain themselves.  If you let them.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

If you are alluding to Revelation 3:10, let's look at it.

• Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.  Revelation 3:10

We don't have to wonder what God meant when He refers to the word of His perseverance because he tells us explicitly what He means . . . twice in fact so there's no doubt.

• If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.  Revelation 13:10
• And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”  Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.  Revelation 14:11-12

Keeping the word of His perseverance, in the end time context, is the same as being victorious over the beast and his image.  The scriptures explain themselves.  If you let them.

You could have added: 

Revelation 15:2

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God

 

HOW did they get victory? They were willing to lose their head rather than lose their salvation. Also Rev. 14 -  as you posted:

 

¹² Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

It is written that the Beast will overcome the saints. These two verses are showing us that.  But WHICH SAINTS? Chapter 12 shows us. 

 

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Notice that there is only a REMNANT left on earth for those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Why only a remnant before the days of GT have even started? It is very simple: the pretrib rapture took out the main load. 

 

It is absolute truth and the saints left behind will have to persevere and will be overcome. 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

It is written that the Beast will overcome the saints. These two verses are showing us that.  But WHICH SAINTS? Chapter 12 shows us. 

 

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Notice that there is only a REMNANT left on earth for those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Why only a remnant before the days of GT have even started? It is very simple: the pretrib rapture took out the main load. 

 

It is absolute truth and the saints left behind will have to persevere and will be overcome. 

The ones who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus in the above verse are the ones who were left behind?  So, they were those believers who were for some reason found unworthy and "missed the rapture" and suddenly acquired a martyr's faith when they couldn't make the cut before??  Something smells really fishy there especially since we're exhorted time and again to endure.  I just can't reconcile that view with scripture, especially since  the rapture takes place on the last day, at the last trumpet.  It just doesn't add up on several counts.