Name That King! Revealing the Beast.

[WilliamL]

6 minutes ago, The Light said:

5th seal or 5th trumpet?

Correction, 5th trumpet, as originally stated.

[The Light]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Original post:

It is your responsibility to prove by the Scriptures what you claim; not my responsibility to prove a negative.

There is not a single verse that mentions the Beast of Revelation 13 ascending from the Abyss (or ANYONE ascending from the Abyss) before the time of the 5th Seal. If you can prove otherwise, show the evidence.

Proving things is not a problem. Getting people to keep up is the problem.

Here is the proof for my statement: Don't think so. The beast is around when the abomination of desolation is set up. That's way before the 5th trumpet when the abyss is opened.

Here we see Jesus saying that there will be false Christs coming at the end of the age.

Matt 24

⁴ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Here we see John telling us about one of the false Christs. There are more to come.

 

Rev 6

And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

² And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Here we see Jesus telling us about the wars, famines and pestilences that are coming during the 70th week of Daniel.

Matt 24

⁶ And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

⁷ For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

⁸ All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Here we see John telling us the same thing.

³ And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

⁴ And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

⁵ And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

⁶ And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

⁷ And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

⁸ And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Which brings us to Jesus telling us about the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation where people will be hunted down and killed.

Matt 24

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Here we see John telling us about the same event.

Rev 6

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here we see Jesus telling us about the cosmic signs that appear prior to his coming.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Here we see John telling us about the same cosmic signs.

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Here we see the return of Jesus. He is coming to gather his elect from heaven and earth. We see that all the tribes of the earth mourn with His coming.

Matt 24

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here John tells us about the same return of Jesus. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

So the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation occur before the wrath of God begins. The wrath will begin when the 7th seal is opened. Then the trumpets are blown in order by the 7 angels. The 5th trump lasts for 5 months.

So there is the proof that the abomination of desolation occurs way before the 5th trumpet is blown. Do you need me to prove that the beast is around when the abomination of desolation is set up?

Edited June 11, 2020 by The Light

[WilliamL]

On 6/10/2020 at 4:47 PM, The Light said:

Do you need me to prove that the beast is around when the abomination of desolation is set up?

Absolutely. That is the crux of the issue. Because the Son of Perdition is not the Beast. The former comes before the AD, the latter comes after the AD, during the wrath, which is after the Church has been removed.

 

[WilliamL]

On 6/10/2020 at 4:47 PM, The Light said:

Do you need me to prove that the beast is around when the abomination of desolation is set up?

Absolutely. That is the crux of the issue. Because the Son of Perdition is not the Beast. The former comes before the AD, the latter comes after the AD, during the wrath, which is after the Church has been removed.

 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Absolutely. That is the crux of the issue. Because the Son of Perdition is not the Beast. The former comes before the AD, the latter comes after the AD, during the wrath, which is after the Church has been removed.

 

So let me get some clarification. I think you are saying that the man of sin, the son of perdition is not the beast of the sea, which is the eighth king who is of the 7.

So is the man of sin, the son of perdition the beast of the earth?

Is the man of sin, the son of perdition the 7th king?

I need to know what you think so I can give the correct answer.

Edited June 16, 2020 by The Light

[WilliamL]

1 minute ago, The Light said:

So is the man of sin, the son of perdition the beast of the earth?

Is the man of sin, the son of perdition the 7th king?

Certainly not the beast of the earth; possibly the 7th head/king, but too little scripture to go on there.

[The Light]

52 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Certainly not the beast of the earth; possibly the 7th head/king, but too little scripture to go on there.

What is telling you that the man of sin, the son of perdition is not the beast of the sea, the eighth king?

Edited June 16, 2020 by The Light

[Revelation Man]

On 6/10/2020 at 5:47 PM, The Light said:

Proving things is not a problem. Getting people to keep up is the problem.

Here is the proof for my statement: Don't think so. The beast is around when the abomination of desolation is set up. That's way before the 5th trumpet when the abyss is opened.

Here we see Jesus saying that there will be false Christs coming at the end of the age.

Matt 24

⁴ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Here we see John telling us about one of the false Christs. There are more to come.

 

Rev 6

And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

² And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Here we see Jesus telling us about the wars, famines and pestilences that are coming during the 70th week of Daniel.

Matt 24

⁶ And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

⁷ For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

⁸ All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Here we see John telling us the same thing.

³ And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

⁴ And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

⁵ And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

⁶ And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

⁷ And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

⁸ And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Which brings us to Jesus telling us about the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation where people will be hunted down and killed.

Matt 24

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Here we see John telling us about the same event.

Rev 6

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here we see Jesus telling us about the cosmic signs that appear prior to his coming.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Here we see John telling us about the same cosmic signs.

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Here we see the return of Jesus. He is coming to gather his elect from heaven and earth. We see that all the tribes of the earth mourn with His coming.

Matt 24

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here John tells us about the same return of Jesus. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

So the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation occur before the wrath of God begins. The wrath will begin when the 7th seal is opened. Then the trumpets are blown in order by the 7 angels. The 5th trump lasts for 5 months.

So there is the proof that the abomination of desolation occurs way before the 5th trumpet is blown. Do you need me to prove that the beast is around when the abomination of desolation is set up?

Incorrect, the False Prophet is around for the AoD and he is a Religious Beast of sorts, but hes not named The Beast until the 1260, because the Anti-Christ comes to power at the 1260, then appoints the False Prophet {Jewish High Priest} as the Religious Beast. So, at the 1290, which happens BEFORE the 1260, there is NO BEAST on earth yet because they have to Conquer Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region to become The Beast [over Gov] The Beast over Religion, and then the Beast over the Mediterranean Sea Region which is what Apollyon is in Rev. 17. I have faith you will never get this however. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

On 6/17/2020 at 1:58 AM, Revelation Man said:

Incorrect, the False Prophet is around for the AoD and he is a Religious Beast of sorts, but hes not named The Beast until the 1260, because the Anti-Christ comes to power at the 1260, then appoints the False Prophet {Jewish High Priest} as the Religious Beast. So, at the 1290, which happens BEFORE the 1260, there is NO BEAST on earth yet because they have to Conquer Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region to become The Beast [over Gov] The Beast over Religion, and then the Beast over the Mediterranean Sea Region which is what Apollyon is in Rev. 17. I have faith you will never get this however. 

What tells you that the False Prophet is a Jewish High priest?

You are probably correct that I won't get that Apollyon is the Beast. That's because he is not. Apoloyon is over the locusts that are released from the pit. Their job is to inflict pain on men not lead them.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

The first beast; Revelation 13:1-10, is a; religious king... 

He is the seventh, and after he is seemingly wounded and healed he will be like a different person and therefore, eighth.

 The first beast is not described as doing any miracles. [Rev 13:1-10]

The first beast will usher in the false prophet, the second best; Revelation 13:11-18, one described as doing seeming miracles in Revelation and therefore connecting with 2 Thess 2:1-11

therefore we know that beast #2 will be the one claiming to be 'Jesus'.  Which also makes more clear who beast #1 is... a religious king..  

 

It's clear that the "beast" and "false prophet" culminate as two actual people; Revelation 19:20-21.

The first beast as a whole is a kingdom with seven major kings and 10 minor kings.   [Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:8-12]

One of the major kings will seem to die and be healed from death, causing the majority of the world to marvel and wonder. [Rev 13:3, 17:8]

After his wounding and healing that king himself is called a beast, he and the false prophet are thrown directly into the lake of fire; Revelation 19:20-21.

 

The Lord will return with a shout, and will resurrect many, and with a great army behind Him He will slay the two beasts as prophesied in Isaiah 26:19-21, 27:1,

and described in Revelation 19:17-21.