Should christians join the police force, army, navy, etc

[vic66]

10 hours ago, Traveler said:

The military is a sword given to the nations for the preservation of Justus and the punishment of evil doers.

The sermon on the mount is there to govern your interpersonal relationships. It was not intended to be used for international relations. You have your secular life and your spiritual life. The spiritual is to influence your conduct in the secular but you need to understand that the secular does not operate by the same rules or laws as your spiritual.

In your spiritual life everything revolves around God the Father and being in line with his will. In the secular life things are governed by the rules of mammon and is self centered. Satan basically runs the world but we are ambassadors for Christ in this world. Compromise with the world is basically a surrender to evil. That is when the salt of the earth looses its taste.

If there are no saints in the military then the only influence there will be the sons of the secular world. How do you guys think that is going to turn out ?

Jesus and the apostles did not need to join the Roman army to convince roman soldiers to give their lives to God

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Edited June 24, 2020 by vic66

[vic66]

2 minutes ago, Josheb said:

So what? 

 

That is an argument from silence. None of the apostles were acrobats, sewage workers, jet pilots, or brick layers either. All you've done is prove what I wrote earlier again: the dissent against Christians in military service deploy a series of logical fallacies that so far have included red herrings, straw men, false dichotomies, false causes, construction errors from part to whole, arguments from extremes, ad hominem, and argument e silentio; all added to an eisegeticallly selective (ab)use of scripture. 

The proper Christian worldview is one that holds the Creator as sovereign over every aspect of His creation, including sin, and His people (Christians) empowered by the Holy Spirit to apply the gospel in all aspects of life and not surrender anything to anyone nor anything not of God! 

 

please take the time to read and pray about this chapter

Matthew5 kjv

1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[vic66]

7 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Neither did they require those soldiers leave the Roman army.  

And make sure not to read Romans 1:16 with an "only" in it where none exists. The gospel of Christ is not only the power of God unto salvation, nor is it the power of God only unto salvation. It also convicts and not all are saved hearing it. 

after reading all of these scriptures police or army is not for me thank you.

 

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Christian Standard Bible
Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for God's wrath, because it is written, Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord.

Contemporary English Version
Dear friends, don't try to get even. Let God take revenge. In the Scriptures the Lord says, "I am the one to take revenge and pay them back."

Good News Translation
Never take revenge, my friends, but instead let God's anger do it. For the scripture says, "I will take revenge, I will pay back, says the Lord."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for His wrath. For it is written: Vengeance belongs to Me; I will repay, says the Lord.

International Standard Version
Do not take revenge, dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath. For it is written, "Vengeance belongs to me. I will pay them back, declares the Lord."

NET Bible
Do not avenge yourselves, dear friends, but give place to God's wrath, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay," says the Lord.

New Heart English Bible
Do not seek revenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for the wrath. For it is written, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but give place to rage, for it is written: “If you will not execute judgment for yourself, I shall execute your judgment, says God.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Don't take revenge, dear friends. Instead, let God's anger take care of it. After all, Scripture says, "I alone have the right to take revenge. I will pay back, says the Lord."

New American Standard 1977
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord.

King James 2000 Bible
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says the Lord.

American King James Version
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place to wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, said the Lord.

American Standard Version
Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God : for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord.

Darby Bible Translation
not avenging yourselves, beloved, but give place to wrath; for it is written, Vengeance [belongs] to me, I will recompense, saith the Lord.

English Revised Version
Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord.

Webster's Bible Translation
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place to wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Weymouth New Testament
Do not be revengeful, my dear friends, but give way before anger; for it is written, "'Revenge belongs to Me: I will pay back,' says the Lord."

World English Bible
Don't seek revenge yourselves, beloved, but give place to God's wrath. For it is written, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord."

Young's Literal Translation
not avenging yourselves, beloved, but give place to the wrath, for it hath been written, 'Vengeance is Mine,

Study Bible

Forgiveness
…18If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the Lord.” 20On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head.”…

Berean Study Bible · Download

Cross References

Leviticus 19:18
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against any of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 32:35
Vengeance is Mine; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; for their day of disaster is near, and their doom is coming quickly.

1 Samuel 26:10
David added, "As surely as the LORD lives, the LORD Himself will strike him down; either his day will come and he will die, or he will go into battle and perish.

1 Samuel 26:11
But the LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD's anointed. Instead, take the spear and water jug by his head, and let us go."

Psalm 94:1
O LORD, God of vengeance, O God of vengeance, shine forth.

Proverbs 20:22
Do not say, "I will avenge this evil!" Wait on the LORD, and He will deliver you.

Proverbs 24:29
Do not say, "I will do to him as he has done to me; I will repay the man according to his work."

Jeremiah 51:36
Therefore, this is what the LORD says: "Behold, I will plead your case and take vengeance on your behalf; I will dry up her sea and make her springs run dry.

Romans 12:17
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Carefully consider what is right in the eyes of everybody.

Ephesians 4:27
and do not give the devil a foothold.

1 Thessalonians 4:6
and no one should ever violate or exploit his brother in this regard, because the Lord will avenge all such acts, as we have already told you and solemnly warned you.

2 Timothy 4:14
Alexander the coppersmith did great harm to me. The Lord will repay him according to his deeds.

Hebrews 10:30
For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge His people."

Edited June 24, 2020 by vic66

[BeauJangles]

Thanks a lot dudes, for bumping an essential topic with one that's played out and no longer one. 

I'll just post this in the Prayer Requests where it's apparent people there really care. 

 

 

[BeauJangles]

You have about the same sense of apathy as the administration here in this nursing facility. Nice. 

[vic66]

4 minutes ago, Josheb said:

No one here has a problem with you not serving.  

The problem lies in telling others how to live out the gospel with such handling of whole scripture. If your conscience leads you not to serve I doubt anyone here finds anything wrong with that given what scripture says about a living rightly with a clear conscience. The appeal to personal choice is another fallacy when applied in an effort dictating to others. Fallacy is not of the Spirit; is only fleshly. God is not irrational and He does not think or teach illogically. 

 

The proper Christian worldview is one that holds the Creator as sovereign over every aspect of His creation, including sin, and His people (Christians) empowered by the Holy Spirit to apply the gospel in all aspects of life and not surrender anything to anyone nor anything not of God! 

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Therefore I can't force to accept the non violent view,  but if you rightly divide the word I am sure Father Son and Holy spirit supports my stance on not joining the army navy or any armed force not matter what country your in.

[BeauJangles]

25 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 

36 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

Thanks a lot dudes, for bumping an essential topic with one that's played out and no longer one. 

 

31 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

You have about the same sense of apathy as the administration here in this nursing facility. Nice. 

 

36 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:

 I'll just post this in the Prayer Requests where it's apparent people there really care. 

 

 

Any further questions? 

Oh, nevermind I asked. 

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, vic66 said:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Therefore I can't force to accept the non violent view,  but if you rightly divide the word I am sure Father Son and Holy spirit supports my stance on not joining the army navy or any armed force not matter what country your in.

If this is what you believe God has laid upon your heart, then it is right for you, but it is not right to try to force your convictions on others.  The first example I can come up with that may help you understand what I am saying is that it is a sin for me to drink, but it is not a sin for others. to drink  Why, because drinking is a weakness that leads me to sin, while another may drink and not have the same problem.  If you are to be a sheep that needs protection from your brothers and sisters, so be it, but don't condemn those who are led to protect you.

Shalom ...

[Omegaman 3.0]

Surely, the question can be answered, with a yes, know, maybe, it depends, etc. Surely it does not take 14 pages to offer all the variations possible. Some are just repetitive, and that is not horrible, but it is also not useful. The problem is, that people seem to have an emotional investment in their own opinions, and are now engaging in some pretty petty bickering and attacks.

Those of you doing this, are making reports about poor positing, and some are also, the subjects of the reports of poor posting. Many of you are both. I am making the decision to end this thread as a live discussion. If another moderator wants to open it back up, that is up to them, but I think this topic had been exhaustively exhausted.

[Willa]

On 6/22/2020 at 4:00 PM, Josheb said:

 If I am being asked a question to which the answer is already known the you are being disingenuous and I have little interest in exchanging posts with disingenuous posters so be forthcoming and don't ask questions to which the answers are already known. 

Asking questions is a method of teaching that Jesus used with His disciples.   I was not being disingenuous.  I was trying to get you to think through your statements.  I sincerely believe your conclusion are in error even though I respect conscientious objectors.  I also hate what war does to people both wounding mentally and physically.  Each of us must serve God in the way He leads us.