Revelation 6:2 White horse

[R. Hartono]

18 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I expect to complete the first phase of Daniel (all 12 chapters) within the next 2 months. 

I was instructed to study Daniel before I attempt Revelation. Because I had  so much difficulty with 11, I found/started to seek assistance within this forum.

I would not want or feel the need to try and tackle Revelation the same way-I believe it will be so much more challenging, and because there is so much talent within this forum, I would to learn with as many folks that are interested... it is ALWAYS so much more enjoyable when you can be part of a team.

Consequently, in Revelation 6:2, it reads-

“And I heard and I saw, and behold a white horse and he who sat on it had a bow and a crown was given to him and he went out victorious, both conquering and to conquer”.

I guess if I was going to tackle this verse, I would list out the specific characteristics, and try to ensure my interpretation includes all of them:

1) white horse- why a horse, why white,

2) who is “he” sitting on the horse,

3) this “he” had a bow- where is the arrow: was “he” not given one or did “he” already shoot it,

4) a crown was given to him - crown given after he had been sitting, what does the crown signify, is this his permission to go out.. who gave him the crown, 

5) he went out victorious- against who, is “he” a good or bad “he”, 

6) why two separate actions... both conquering and to conquer... seems that was his intended purpose or mission (was this “mission” a designed role or did “he” decide on his own to conquer,

7) are there any Scriptures that can identify these characteristics or identity

As mentioned in previous posts, I know NOTHING of Revelation and would respectfully ask for your comments and opinions.

Thank you very much, Charlie 

The white horse of the 1st seal will conquer the world with peace especially  a 7 years peace deal between Israel-Arabs enemies :

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

[iamlamad]

20 hours ago, John n Claudia said:

iamlamad,

As seen in different interchanges, we have very different views regarding how to interpret Revelation.  Per your interpretation, no trumpet can sound until after the seventh seal is opened.  As a result of your assumptions and how you interpret Revelations, my answer does not make sense to you.

Per my interpretation, the seals, trumpets and bowls are different series and they run in parallel.  This means that I do not have the restriction that the seventh seal has to be opened before the first trumpet can sound.  The reason that I have been asking you questions in the other thread is so that I can understand your theory and know how to interpret your answers.  I would ask that you provide me the same courtesy and try to understand how I look at Revelation before you dismiss my posts out of hand and say that things cannot happen the way I believe they will happen.

Thank you very much in advance for this consideration.

Sorry, but I have to go by what is written:

Rev. 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

There is more to "the book" that the seals - the seals only protect the book. It has writing INSIDE the book. The emphasis here in these verses is the BOOK, not the seals: once a seal is opened, it becomes history and not mentioned again.  What we should think about is what is written INSIDE the book. Without a doubt what is inside the book is CRITICAL to God and John knows this - why he cries much. 

MY theory is that once the last seal is opened, the next thing John sees is what is written INSIDE the book. No, John does not tell us that in so many words, but these 5 verses give us a STRONG hint: at a minimum, the trumpets are written INSIDE the book. Then we read:

 

1  And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Do you see it? No trumpet is given out UNTIL the final seal is opened. How then can you even imagine that the trumpets run parallel to the seals? It is impossible. I think the book is opened when the 7th seal is opened. So verse 2 above is written INSIDE the book. If so, again impossible to get to a trumpet written inside the book until the book can be opened and that cannot happen until all seals are opened first.  This is why I dismiss any theory that tries to rearrange Revelation. I am sorry, but I cannot see it your way. I have to follow the text. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by iamlamad

[rf52]

This PDF may help with the definition of the White Horse:  Corona

Edited September 1, 2020 by rf52

[Charlie744]

Thank you very much and I will go through it ... noticing it also provides information on other horses... Thanks again, Charlie 

[Spock]

On 8/26/2020 at 4:47 AM, Charlie744 said:

I expect to complete the first phase of Daniel (all 12 chapters) within the next 2 months. 

I was instructed to study Daniel before I attempt Revelation. Because I had  so much difficulty with 11, I found/started to seek assistance within this forum.

I would not want or feel the need to try and tackle Revelation the same way-I believe it will be so much more challenging, and because there is so much talent within this forum, I would to learn with as many folks that are interested... it is ALWAYS so much more enjoyable when you can be part of a team.

Consequently, in Revelation 6:2, it reads-

“And I heard and I saw, and behold a white horse and he who sat on it had a bow and a crown was given to him and he went out victorious, both conquering and to conquer”.

I guess if I was going to tackle this verse, I would list out the specific characteristics, and try to ensure my interpretation includes all of them:

1) white horse- why a horse, why white,

2) who is “he” sitting on the horse,

3) this “he” had a bow- where is the arrow: was “he” not given one or did “he” already shoot it,

4) a crown was given to him - crown given after he had been sitting, what does the crown signify, is this his permission to go out.. who gave him the crown, 

5) he went out victorious- against who, is “he” a good or bad “he”, 

6) why two separate actions... both conquering and to conquer... seems that was his intended purpose or mission (was this “mission” a designed role or did “he” decide on his own to conquer,

7) are there any Scriptures that can identify these characteristics or identity

As mentioned in previous posts, I know NOTHING of Revelation and would respectfully ask for your comments and opinions.

Thank you very much, Charlie 

I have some thoughts that I have borrowed from David Lowe in his book, Earthquake Resurrection.  In this book, he goes to show how the first five seals have been released when  Jesus ascended to heaven and have been in play for the past 2000 years.  He supported his thinking very well so I think it is something to at least consider. 
 

Anyhow, the first rider on the white horse represents a spirit of religious domination (going out to conquer) using religion to dominate and brainwash the masses. Any religion, organization, hierarchy, or denomination that uses the name of Jesus , Christianity, or the gospel to force, coerce, or brainwash its adherents is being led by the spirit of religious domination symbolized within the first seal. 
 

The most powerful example in history is the RCC church through the papal system.  Consider Constantine compromises made in 4th century, Crusades in 10th and 11th, Many  inquisitions,  Dark ages, Persecutions against Protestant Reformation in 16-17th centuries, I think you get the picture of what this domination can look like.  But not just limited to the RCC......some Protestant churches too. 
 

I will stop there. Something to ponder, wouldn’t you say?

[Charlie744]

This makes sense... this white horse does not use military type force but he deceives and twists His Word...  and God would not allow him to have access to any arrows (like Job, God would not allow Satan to physically harm him).

And yes, the white color of the first horse is also part of his deception... our first view of him might be one of a “good guy” coming to our aid... no one on a white horse can be a bad guy,.. 

and the first horse would/could also signify he will be right there at the beginning of man... 

I believe Revelation is going to be exponentially more difficult than Daniel.

 Thanks for your thoughts, Charlie 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

This makes sense... this white horse does not use military type force but he deceives and twists His Word...  and God would not allow him to have access to any arrows (like Job, God would not allow Satan to physically harm him).

And yes, the white color of the first horse is also part of his deception... our first view of him might be one of a “good guy” coming to our aid... no one on a white horse can be a bad guy,.. 

and the first horse would/could also signify he will be right there at the beginning of man... 

I believe Revelation is going to be exponentially more difficult than Daniel.

 Thanks for your thoughts, Charlie 

NO IT DON'T make sense!  WHO chose the color of that horse? Do you imagine that God allowed the man of sin to choose his color? How silly would that be?
John used the color white 17 times: I challenge you to read every one of those 17. Do you imagine God would use white 16 times in one book for things good and righteous, and then use it once for something evil or deceitful? That is not the God we serve!

Go back and study the context of this first seal and you will discover that Jesus got the book and opened that first seal when He ascended back into heaven and dying for our sins. 

The SPIRIT of Antichrist was alive and well in John's day, but the man of sin is probably alive NOW. No one can find 2000 years from the verse where Jesus got the book, and to the first seal. It is not there. The first seal is not for our future, but was opened long ago.

Edited August 29, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

I have some thoughts that I have borrowed from David Lowe in his book, Earthquake Resurrection.  In this book, he goes to show how the first five seals have been released when  Jesus ascended to heaven and have been in play for the past 2000 years.  He supported his thinking very well so I think it is something to at least consider. 
 

Anyhow, the first rider on the white horse represents a spirit of religious domination (going out to conquer) using religion to dominate and brainwash the masses. Any religion, organization, hierarchy, or denomination that uses the name of Jesus , Christianity, or the gospel to force, coerce, or brainwash its adherents is being led by the spirit of religious domination symbolized within the first seal. 
 

The most powerful example in history is the RCC church through the papal system.  Consider Constantine compromises made in 4th century, Crusades in 10th and 11th, Many  inquisitions,  Dark ages, Persecutions against Protestant Reformation in 16-17th centuries, I think you get the picture of what this domination can look like.  But not just limited to the RCC......some Protestant churches too. 
 

I will stop there. Something to ponder, wouldn’t you say?

How strange a conclusion: the first seal a WHITE horse, and not one word about this seal that would even hint of evil, and this seal opened about the very same time Jesus said "all authority is given to me..." and told the early church to GO......

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, rf52 said:

This PDF may help with the definition of the White Horse:  Corona

I would take this PDF with lots of salt.

There is no such thing as conquering "peacefully." When conquering is done, people die. 

The truth is, this first rider on a white horse is to represent the CHURCH sent out (around 32 AD) with the GOSPEL. They had to conquer because Satan was and still is the god of this world. People DIED taking the gospel to new areas, conquering the principalities and powers over them. 

[Sister]

On 8/26/2020 at 4:47 PM, Charlie744 said:

I expect to complete the first phase of Daniel (all 12 chapters) within the next 2 months. 

I was instructed to study Daniel before I attempt Revelation. Because I had  so much difficulty with 11, I found/started to seek assistance within this forum.

I would not want or feel the need to try and tackle Revelation the same way-I believe it will be so much more challenging, and because there is so much talent within this forum, I would to learn with as many folks that are interested... it is ALWAYS so much more enjoyable when you can be part of a team.

Consequently, in Revelation 6:2, it reads-

“And I heard and I saw, and behold a white horse and he who sat on it had a bow and a crown was given to him and he went out victorious, both conquering and to conquer”.

I guess if I was going to tackle this verse, I would list out the specific characteristics, and try to ensure my interpretation includes all of them:

1) white horse- why a horse, why white,

Hi Charlie

Horses can travel great distances.  They can also be steered by the reigns to go in whatever direction.

White symbolises something clean and pure, with no stains.
 

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2) who is “he” sitting on the horse,

 

Jesus gave the answer in matthew 24;

  Matthew 24:5   For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This is the white horse.  False religion is established and goes out into the world.  Revelation gives the symbology, and Matthew gives the interpretation.  This horse is still running, but started at a certain point of time.

To confirm, see the pattern below.

 Matthew 24:6   And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

This is the red horse.  The 1st and 2nd 'world' wars was when this horse started to run.  It is still running.

 

Matthew 24:7   For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

This is the black horse.  We are here, awaiting the pale horse.   It is going to intensify.

 

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3) this “he” had a bow- where is the arrow: was “he” not given one or did “he” already shoot it,

 

The bow symbolises war, but this is not a physical war ...because this war is spiritual.  No need for the arrow because the people are flocking to this horse and like what it represents.

 

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4) a crown was given to him - crown given after he had been sitting, what does the crown signify, is this his permission to go out.. who gave him the crown, 

 

Crown means authority. He has risen to power.

No one can have power or authority unless God allows it.  God is using him for his purposes - so the flock can choose what side of the fence they want to be on.

 

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5) he went out victorious- against who, is “he” a good or bad “he”, 

He is victorious against the lambs who have a form of godliness or desire one.  He's not a good guy, but a false representative of Christ, leading the flock astray.

 

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6) why two separate actions... both conquering and to conquer... seems that was his intended purpose or mission (was this “mission” a designed role or did “he” decide on his own to conquer,

When he was conquering, he was gaining souls, rising to power.  It had to start somewhere?  That horse is still running and still conquering souls, so it continues to this day.  It's not just about the Roman church now, the mother, but includes all her daughters.

 

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7) are there any Scriptures that can identify these characteristics or identity

Yes, Matthew 24:5 as mentioned above.  Jesus mentions the first three seals clearly.  Once tribulation comes, the pale horse has already come.

I believe that this white horse who went forth conquering could be the start of the Roman Catholic (universal) Church.  This is the mother of all church establishments which went out into the earth to the gentiles.  From there, there were many splits in the church, and from them further divisions and so forth.  So the stump is still there, with her roots, and although the branches are different, they all lead to the same tree. 

Jesus said that God does not dwell in buildings made with man's hands, but that the kingdom of God dwells inside us if we follow in his commandments.  Our church should be the truth and something worth seeking where we work out our own salvation, leaving plenty of room for asking questions and being corrected as we go beneath the layers, allowing the holy spirit to teach us.  It should not be a dead end road where a doctrine is established and there is no room to move and grow.  Organised religion does this and doesn't like to admit that they've made a mistake in doctrine.  Once you're in there your locked in and not allowed to think for yourself.  This is where I believe it becomes dangerous, but many feel safe and build up a wall that can't be broken.   In my opinion this is the white horse today continuing on capturing and conquering more and more souls, not through war, but through persuasion.