What is a "soul?"

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I agree, but will that be part of the body, the soul? Will God breath that into us? Is that a universal Hebrew or Greek translator? Is this what is meant by speaking in tongues? 

This is just going to add another 45 pages to this topic... 

I was joking, Charlie.

[Charlie744]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

I was joking, Charlie.

Of course I understood that... which is why I responded so!

 

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Charlie744 said:

Of course I understood that... which is why I responded so!

 

Gotcha good dry yankee humor.

lol

[Charlie744]

6 hours ago, David1701 said:

I suggest, strongly, that you stick to what Scripture says and avoid speculation.

David, I hope you do not mind but I would like to use your post in an attempt to understand how you and others interpret 2:7 (for those that feel they AND others have addressed this at least 10 times within the past 45 pages or so I apologize and please ignore):

1) I have posted my thoughts that 2:7 means that Adam became a living being or soul by God taking earth and blowing into this form. A + B.

So what exactly is B?

     Is it air?

     Is it air + something?

This is where it all starts-because the definition of a living being or soul will / should require / allow us to understand / interpret this term the same way each time it is mentioned in Scripture. If no consensus then “speculation”, and just within this talented group there are more than a few interpretations, which in my language is a “workaround”.

 Thank you, Charlie 

 

 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

????? 

What in all of the heavens and the earth are you talking about? Neither Charlie nor I were talking about any "no soul theory" nor was it asserted we couldn't really love God because we humans don't have a soul. When I said, "no soul" I simply and solely meant there is no "soul" mentioned in Genesis 2:7. The phrase is nephes hayyam or living being, not soul. I was not saying humans don't have a soul; I was saying the word "soul" doesn't appear in Genesis 2:7. The Hebrew is "living being" and that is something we are, not something we merely have. 

Nothing more was being said. 

So..... not only did you get the answer to did God breath His life giving breath into animals wrong,, you got the meaning of my "no soul" comment wrong. 

Shalom, Josheb.

Sorry, my brother, but "soul" IS mentioned in Genesis 2:7. It's not something that is placed within the man, but is something the man becomes BECAUSE of what was placed within him, namely the "puff of living things."

Genesis 2:7 is not misquoted at all:

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living SOUL.

And, I guess I have to say it again: The word "soul" is the word used to translate the Hebrew word "nefesh" at the END of the verse. HOWEVER, the Hebrew word "nefesh" means an "AIR-BREATHING CREATURE!"

If you're talking about the word "lnefesh," the "l-" prefix is the Hebrew preposition meaning "to" or "into." The root word is "nefesh" (often written "nephesh") which comes from the Hebrew root verb "naafash," meaning "to breathe air." (The addition of the "l-" prefix is also how the infinitive in Hebrew is formed.)

Furthermore, God had to "jump start" the breathing and the panting of the animals every bit as much as He did for the man.

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

David, I hope you do not mind but I would like to use your post in an attempt to understand how you and others interpret 2:7 (for those that feel they AND others have addressed this at least 10 times within the past 45 pages or so I apologize and please ignore):

1) I have posted my thoughts that 2:7 means that Adam became a living being or soul by God taking earth and blowing into this form. A + B.

So what exactly is B?

     Is it air?

     Is it air + something?

This is where it all starts-because the definition of a living being or soul will / should require / allow us to understand / interpret this term the same way each time it is mentioned in Scripture. If no consensus then “speculation”, and just within this talented group there are more than a few interpretations, which in my language is a “workaround”.

 Thank you, Charlie 

 

 

 

 

Alright folks.... all I am getting is “crickets”!

David, chime in here- what do the Scriptures say?

I am NOT going to speak for Retrobyter but I believe he has recently provided his thoughts to Josh in a very recent post... Please read it above but it seems he is comfortable with God breathing air into Adam’s lungs... 

Anyone else? Charlie 

[Frits]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

there is some kind of life in a body after death. 

Hi Josheb 

Can you give a practical example of this?  Or do you have a text from the Bible to substantiate this? Or maybe both?
Or do you have no further concrete indications at all?

God bless.

[Frits]

36 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 

Sure. Let's start with one of the examples used earlier in this op . I Luke 16 we have the story of a rich man being in torment in Hades asking God to allow Lazarus to dip his finger in water so that a drip of water might cool his tongue and bring a moment of relief. We see the rich man has thought, he has words and speech, he has sensations and feelings, and he is responsive to the material world, he has awareness of others, he is still able to feel both torment and relief. Lazurus, someone not living in Hades, has fingers. Lazarus too, despite his being dead, can effect change in the material world, he has fingers, and he can reach. 

These are all aspects of bodies. 

Bodies have fingers and tongues. Disembodied souls or spirits do not have fingers and tongues, hands or mouths. 

 

 

Another example broached earlier was the ghost of Samuel in 1 Samuel 28. Not only can Samuel be seen (indicating he has form) is seen moving, he is wearing a robe, he is recognized as Samuel (identity preserved) and he is seen in human form. He hears and he speaks, the implication being he has ears and a mouth, not just legs that move him and shoulders to hold up a robe. 

These are all aspects of bodies. 

Bodies have legs and shoulders and ears and mouths. Disembodied souls or spirits do not have legs, shoulders, ears, or mouths. Disembodied souls can not be seen. 

 

 

Lastly, and perhaps most saliently and profoundly, we have the resurrected body of Christ. His body is stated to have flesh and bone (Lk. 24:39). On the road to Emmaus his form is at first unrecognizable, then recognizable, and it appears and then disappears and yet is clearly has form; it is a body. Jesus' body cooks fish and handles the fish. It walks through walls! It exists and moves with gaping wounds and yet it lives. 

I am asked if there is scripture stating there is some kind of life in a body even after death. I am not sure why this is being asked given all the many repetitive times I have noted the one-to-one correlation between the body buried and the body raised in 1 Cor. 15:35-54 but we can start with something Jesus said. In John 11:25 Jesus stated he is the resurrection and the life... and "he who believes in me will live even if he dies". 

So there is life after death. This is the hope of every Christian; to be raised incorruptible and immortal in fellowship with God. There are numerous examples found throughout the scriptures almost from beginning to end of embodied souls/spirits but no examples of disembodied souls/spirits. The corrupted/corruptible puts on incorruptibility and the mortal puts on immortality and despite the fact the body of flesh and blood that cannot see heaven lays decaying in the grave it is raised incorruptible and immortal and apparently in a body of flesh and bone, not flesh and blood. 

 

 

So, yes, I can provide practical examples and substantiating  texts from the Bible. LOTS OF THEM. Scripture is not silent on the matter. It speaks decisively on the matter; it does not provide a single example of disembodied souls or spirits but it does, alternatively, provide a plethora of examples of still-bodied souls/spirits. 

Therefore, because there are examples of one and only one side of this debate and not the other(s) we can reasonably, rationally, exegetically conclude while it is true scripture does undeniably use the language of body, soul, and spirit, these terms have limits because they cannot be separated from the human being without the loss of the whole. The parts do not exist separately. There is not only no examples of disembodied soul in the Bible, there are no examples of disembodied de-spirited souls either. 

 

I DID ASK.

Repeatedly. 

Of many and all. 

Attempts were made but none proved veracious; there's always a body. There's always a body with activity assigned indicating life; life after death. 

 

 

Yes, I can provide practical examples and substantiating texts from the Bible.

John 3:16 
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

2 Corinthians 13:4 
"For he was indeed crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. And though we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him to serve you." 

 

Yes indeed, there's always a body, natural or or mentally, I did never deny that. I even stated a human has both.

[David1701]

14 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

David, I hope you do not mind but I would like to use your post in an attempt to understand how you and others interpret 2:7 (for those that feel they AND others have addressed this at least 10 times within the past 45 pages or so I apologize and please ignore):

1) I have posted my thoughts that 2:7 means that Adam became a living being or soul by God taking earth and blowing into this form. A + B.

So what exactly is B?

     Is it air?

     Is it air + something?

This is where it all starts-because the definition of a living being or soul will / should require / allow us to understand / interpret this term the same way each time it is mentioned in Scripture. If no consensus then “speculation”, and just within this talented group there are more than a few interpretations, which in my language is a “workaround”.

 Thank you, Charlie 

 

You cannot take a word and assume that it always means the same thing.  You have to study the context (including grammar, historical setting, audience, lexicons, etc.).  The word "soul" does not have only one usage, throughout the Bible.

Be careful not to sacrifice truth for simplicity.

[Charlie744]

25 minutes ago, David1701 said:

You cannot take a word and assume that it always means the same thing.  You have to study the context (including grammar, historical setting, audience, lexicons, etc.).  The word "soul" does not have only one usage, throughout the Bible.

Be careful not to sacrifice truth for simplicity.

Thank you for responding David. However, can / would you be willing to address my 2:7 question?

This is the first mention of a “soul” and where God identifies the two components. 

This is the BEGINNING so we should not be concerned with context, historical setting, audience, etc. This begins everything- this is Scripture.

Can you let me know your thoughts on what you believe “B” is?

 Thank you, Charlie